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In reply to the discussion: Of course people opposed to military strikes are horrified by the use of chemical weapons [View all]MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)75. Agent Defeat Weapons, for YOUR edification
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/29/syria-chemical-weapons-attack/2723251/
"Pentagon budget documents show that testing of so-called Agent Defeat weapon continues. Getting one to work without causing more harm than good has been a struggle. The Defense Threat Reduction Agency has spent tens of millions of dollars developing and testing the weapon. The Navy dropped out of the Agent Defeat program in 2005 because byproducts from its explosion proved toxic."
and
"The Air Force has two Agent Defeat weapons, CrashPAD and the Passive Attack Weapon (PAW), according to Jennifer Cassidy, an Air Force spokeswoman. Instead of explosives, these relatively low-tech weapons use metal rods or fragments to pierce containers holding toxic chemicals, allowing them to escape.
To be effective in densely populated areas, an Agent Defeat bomb must destroy toxic chemicals without dispersing them.
In 2002, the Navy announced that it was developing the weapon and pairing it with bombs designed to penetrate fortified buildings. The Navy described it working this way: after bursting into a storage bunker, the warhead would spray copper plates at high speeds to tear into tanks containing toxic chemicals. Material within the warhead would burn so hot it would vaporize the chemicals that escape. A byproduct that explosion would generate chlorine gas, a disinfectant."
***********************************
So, using these weapons will: 1) allow the chemical weapons to escape from their holding tanks - GREAT idea!; 2) create their own toxic by products; 3) or create chlorine gas, which itself is essentially a chemical weapon.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/165580-destroying-chemical-weapons
"Daryl Kimball of the Arms Control Association framed the problem in his recent testimony on the subject, If you drop a conventional munition on a storage facility containing unknown chemical agents and we dont know exactly what is where in the Syrian arsenal some of those agents will be neutralised and some will be spread. You are not going to destroy all of them."
and
"The result of a PAW strike will still be a toxic mess, but hopefully one that only affects a limited area." HOPEFULLY....wishful thinking?
and
"Use of any of these munitions is made much more complex if the targeted weapons are housed near populated areas, of course. Similarly, none of them have had extensive field tests although they have been simulated on USAFs SERPENT attack simulator. As a result, many weapons experts predict that if strikes in Syria do occur, they may not attempt to directly destroy its chemical weapon stockpiles."
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/how-the-us-could-take-out-syrias-chemical-weapons-14826307
The major caveat: Even if these kinds of weapons work exactly as planned, knocking out Syrias chemical weapons stockpiles is not just a weapons engineering challenge. Intelligence is key and, as the war in Iraq showed, pinning down WMD is notoriously difficult. Its no use taking out a warehouse with the latest hardware if the chemicals were never there, or if they were moved out the previous day. And any action on a stockpile is hazardous. Anything less than 100 percent destruction risks exposing innocent civilians to lethal chemical agents. Agent defeat weapons might offer some options in an unstable and dangerous situation in Syria, but they are certainly not an easy, risk-free solution."
"Pentagon budget documents show that testing of so-called Agent Defeat weapon continues. Getting one to work without causing more harm than good has been a struggle. The Defense Threat Reduction Agency has spent tens of millions of dollars developing and testing the weapon. The Navy dropped out of the Agent Defeat program in 2005 because byproducts from its explosion proved toxic."
and
"The Air Force has two Agent Defeat weapons, CrashPAD and the Passive Attack Weapon (PAW), according to Jennifer Cassidy, an Air Force spokeswoman. Instead of explosives, these relatively low-tech weapons use metal rods or fragments to pierce containers holding toxic chemicals, allowing them to escape.
To be effective in densely populated areas, an Agent Defeat bomb must destroy toxic chemicals without dispersing them.
In 2002, the Navy announced that it was developing the weapon and pairing it with bombs designed to penetrate fortified buildings. The Navy described it working this way: after bursting into a storage bunker, the warhead would spray copper plates at high speeds to tear into tanks containing toxic chemicals. Material within the warhead would burn so hot it would vaporize the chemicals that escape. A byproduct that explosion would generate chlorine gas, a disinfectant."
***********************************
So, using these weapons will: 1) allow the chemical weapons to escape from their holding tanks - GREAT idea!; 2) create their own toxic by products; 3) or create chlorine gas, which itself is essentially a chemical weapon.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/165580-destroying-chemical-weapons
"Daryl Kimball of the Arms Control Association framed the problem in his recent testimony on the subject, If you drop a conventional munition on a storage facility containing unknown chemical agents and we dont know exactly what is where in the Syrian arsenal some of those agents will be neutralised and some will be spread. You are not going to destroy all of them."
and
"The result of a PAW strike will still be a toxic mess, but hopefully one that only affects a limited area." HOPEFULLY....wishful thinking?
and
"Use of any of these munitions is made much more complex if the targeted weapons are housed near populated areas, of course. Similarly, none of them have had extensive field tests although they have been simulated on USAFs SERPENT attack simulator. As a result, many weapons experts predict that if strikes in Syria do occur, they may not attempt to directly destroy its chemical weapon stockpiles."
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/how-the-us-could-take-out-syrias-chemical-weapons-14826307
The major caveat: Even if these kinds of weapons work exactly as planned, knocking out Syrias chemical weapons stockpiles is not just a weapons engineering challenge. Intelligence is key and, as the war in Iraq showed, pinning down WMD is notoriously difficult. Its no use taking out a warehouse with the latest hardware if the chemicals were never there, or if they were moved out the previous day. And any action on a stockpile is hazardous. Anything less than 100 percent destruction risks exposing innocent civilians to lethal chemical agents. Agent defeat weapons might offer some options in an unstable and dangerous situation in Syria, but they are certainly not an easy, risk-free solution."
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Of course people opposed to military strikes are horrified by the use of chemical weapons [View all]
cali
Sep 2013
OP
It's easy to take pot shots at others but hard to state your own position. nm
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#20
No, no, haven't you heard? Those of us who oppose war with Syria are OK with chemical weapons ....
Scuba
Sep 2013
#2
Or maybe the other way.. people who are for some action against Assad are warmongers...
DontTreadOnMe
Sep 2013
#26
Advocating military action before exhausting all other avenues is indeed "warmongering".
Scuba
Sep 2013
#27
There's a pretty good body of literature that show US military intervention makes things worse ....
Scuba
Sep 2013
#79
Obama was not previously bothered by chemical weapons use, he never mentioned Reagan's
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2013
#3
Let's not forget that he has been a strong proponent of non-proliferation all along.
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#28
dude, your blind hatred of obama and pushing your "he luvs reagan!1!" lie are making you look absurd
dionysus
Sep 2013
#76
"If there was no collateral damage" - wouldn't it be simpler to just say I won't support strikes
el_bryanto
Sep 2013
#5
The fact that a US strike on Syria is illegal doesn't seem to change your favoring it
MNBrewer
Sep 2013
#34
Perhaps because it is the one thing that 98% of the world agreed to disarm itself of?
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#30
Those same nations also agreed to mechanisms by which to deal with the use of chemical weapons
MNBrewer
Sep 2013
#37
and if Obama succeeds in getting Syria to turn over its chemical weapons to international
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#32
"Your perspective on everything begins and ends with your absolute fealty to President Obama.
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#84
I wouldn't supportmilitary action under any circumstance than a direct threat to the US....
marble falls
Sep 2013
#14
We also live in the real world where the Syrian Government will continue to kill people...
brooklynite
Sep 2013
#18
right....you have seen technology that video games have used for 10 yrs...how has that technology
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#62
lol. you chide me for using TPM and the DB and go straight to wiki: Hilarious, honey.
cali
Sep 2013
#64
You have provided some nice glossy MIC materials produced for their propaganda effects
MNBrewer
Sep 2013
#74
I'm far more horrified by Depleted Uranium than I am of anything Syria has to offer
Snake Plissken
Sep 2013
#22
I will stop when Assad relinquishes his chemical weapons like the rest of the world has..
VanillaRhapsody
Sep 2013
#52