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When a hate crime occurs against gays, we talk about homophobia immediately afterwards [View all] La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 OP

Bullseye. nt Xipe Totec Sep 2013 #1

Excellent post malaise Sep 2013 #2

Guns are more important than people, more important than life. Iggo Sep 2013 #3

definitely. nt La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #4

There's an element of that el_bryanto Sep 2013 #5

exactly my point. people only object to this to shutdown a debate La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #7

When a gang rape occurs in Delhi, we don't talk about chemical castration for men, either. X_Digger Sep 2013 #6

yes because restricting guns is exactly like chemical castration. La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #8

Registering penises then? Banning.. umm.. tumescent ones? X_Digger Sep 2013 #11

no, thats not the ONLY proper analagy. we talk about reducing homophobia/transphobia and misogyny La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #12

Those relate to changing people's attitudes. Hate crime legislation is about punishment post crime. X_Digger Sep 2013 #14

no it's not. we dont just talk about punishment when it come to discussing rape/hate crimes La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #16

Right- changing minds. Not banning the implements used. X_Digger Sep 2013 #17

making restrictions on the instrument would help, for instance reducing the number of hate radio La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #19

Again, that's one step removed from the action that we wish to see disappear. X_Digger Sep 2013 #23

baseball bats have another use besides killing. what exactly do urban people do with guns La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #24

Thank you for at least conceding that the analogy is weak. X_Digger Sep 2013 #26

the analogy to baseball bats or knives is weak. they never cause the casual havoc a single gun can La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #34

So I shouldn't expect you to support a baseball bat ban the next time a gay person is killed? X_Digger Sep 2013 #39

is there an epidemic of mass baseball bat beatings that kill several people at once? CreekDog Sep 2013 #68

Interesting diversion into another area, but that wasn't the topic we were discussing. X_Digger Sep 2013 #75

Your own chart show guns account for 2/3rds of all murders. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #132

So,...your argument is to arm the more murderous country. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #105

So.. you banana patch in the mojo cup on Friddlledays? X_Digger Sep 2013 #114

Beats Reagan and his "Well,..." Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #125

Norway has some pretty strict gun laws Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #50

They have an assault weapon ban at the state level. beevul Sep 2013 #52

I didn't know that Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #54

Yeah, this happens in Norway all the time... awoke_in_2003 Sep 2013 #74

Norway is about the size of Colorado and Minnesota each Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #82

True, but the "per 100k" rate is what to look at. They have a high rate of gun ownership; 7962 Sep 2013 #106

Agreed Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #107

yeah, once Doctor_J Sep 2013 #83

Yes Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #84

And how many mass murders are committed with bats? WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #80

So only hate crimes with multiple victims deserve legislation? Tsk tsk tsk. n/t X_Digger Sep 2013 #81

Purposefully obtuse. U4ikLefty Sep 2013 #112

No, I just refuse to be red herring'ed into another subject involuntarily. X_Digger Sep 2013 #113

WRONG. We are talking about guns & crime. U4ikLefty Sep 2013 #117

Perhaps you might want to review the OP, and the subject at hand. n/t X_Digger Sep 2013 #133

Well, gee! HappyMe Sep 2013 #22

Question for you.. X_Digger Sep 2013 #25

People murder others for any number of reasons. HappyMe Sep 2013 #33

I think you missed my point- even without guns, we tend to be twice as homicidal as Germany X_Digger Sep 2013 #40

Without guns, there would be way, way less murder. HappyMe Sep 2013 #42

Umm, I can't see the logic in that, but okay. n/t X_Digger Sep 2013 #43

Therein lies the catch-22; 7962 Sep 2013 #131

Yeah, I know making them all illegal is goofy HappyMe Sep 2013 #134

I agree 100%. nt 7962 Sep 2013 #144

Circumspect Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #46

Ugh, lol. That was completely unintentional. n/t X_Digger Sep 2013 #47

That's what made it so funny Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #51

you both laugh and have the same sense of humor when it comes to gun killings CreekDog Sep 2013 #69

You be sure to tut-tut all those posting funny stories in the last 24 hours to lighten the mood, ya? X_Digger Sep 2013 #77

Wow, I mean really. You have got to be kidding me. WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #76

Well, to some... awoke_in_2003 Sep 2013 #73

Holy crap! HappyMe Sep 2013 #9

Excellent questions Yavin4 Sep 2013 #10

Spot on. WilliamPitt Sep 2013 #13

I think that's what happens when a discussion becomes entrenched and petronius Sep 2013 #15

This is the correct answer. pintobean Sep 2013 #29

I don't think some on here are digging deep enough to get to the root of the problem Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2013 #44

It's dumbfounding pintobean Sep 2013 #59

Obviously the root causes are 1) mental illness and 2) violent video-games U4ikLefty Sep 2013 #115

it is systemic. septic. Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2013 #123

No, it's mostly the guns. U4ikLefty Sep 2013 #127

Good bye. Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2013 #130

Exactly. DanTex Sep 2013 #18

Because we've accepted the fact that some times hate is a factor in a crime Doctor_J Sep 2013 #20

Take the gun, leave the mental illness Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #95

or deal with both Doctor_J Sep 2013 #103

If you deal with the mental illness then the gun isn't a threat Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #104

What are you suggesting when you say "deal with the mental illness"? nt nyquil_man Sep 2013 #135

To get them the care they require to Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #137

How will you go about getting them to do it? nyquil_man Sep 2013 #138

Some people are genuine threats. They need intervention as unhappy a thought as that may be. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #139

Yes, I know. Now how do you determine it and how do you get them treated? nyquil_man Sep 2013 #140

The legal mechanisms already exist and have existed for sometime Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #141

How would those legal mechanisms have prevented something like Newtown? nyquil_man Sep 2013 #142

He was under care, IIRC. But then there's Cho, Holmes, Alexis and Loughner. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #143

The legal mechanisms didn't stop any of them. nyquil_man Sep 2013 #145

Cho should have been committed. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #146

Should Lanza have been committed? nyquil_man Sep 2013 #147

If the mentally ill had any control over their state of being they wouldn't be ill. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #148

Perhaps you'd rather debate with someone else. nyquil_man Sep 2013 #149

You asked Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #150

"If you deal with the mental illness then the gun isn't a threat" nyquil_man Sep 2013 #152

It would be silly to use Lanza as an excuse to not commit Cho, Loughner, Holmes, Hassan, etc. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #153

Your initial claim was hopelessly naive. nyquil_man Sep 2013 #154

Whenever a massacre with a gun occurs... Posteritatis Sep 2013 #21

Because America uses Guns and Force mstinamotorcity2 Sep 2013 #27

Well, the narrative becomes almost entirely about banning one class of guns. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #28

my overall point isn't that gun control is the only solution, but to say it wont help is naive La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #31

Great post. The gun suckers number on tactic is to change the subject. morningfog Sep 2013 #30

The NRA hasn't taken an official stand in favor of crimes against gay people or gang rape...YET. FiveGoodMen Sep 2013 #32

the NRA is only the mouthpiece of a multi- billion dollar gun industry La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #35

Well, either way, the point was that there's powerful money and organization behind the gun thing FiveGoodMen Sep 2013 #60

yeah. sorry if it sounded like i was contradicting you La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #64

I've basically stopped contributing to gun discussions here. closeupready Sep 2013 #36

its not even really a discussion about guns but the hypocrisy surrounding massacres La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #37

Yes, I completely agree with you. And I'm pro-2nd amendment, closeupready Sep 2013 #67

What do you mean by "I'm pro-2nd amendment"? U4ikLefty Sep 2013 #116

Clarify ... how? Most of you want to repeal the 2nd Amendment. closeupready Sep 2013 #118

Non-answer & an acccusation. Let's try again U4ikLefty Sep 2013 #121

See post #118. closeupready Sep 2013 #122

As I thought...you have nothing. U4ikLefty Sep 2013 #124

LOL - I have an opinion about onions, and you ask about tricycles. closeupready Sep 2013 #126

Kick! Squinch Sep 2013 #38

The argument is about the offender, right Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #41

A perfect case in point to refute your question justiceischeap Sep 2013 #53

So we're accepting that people Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #55

I think if someone goes on a mass rampage justiceischeap Sep 2013 #57

I don't think ex-cons can have guns legally Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #63

North Caroline Supreme Court ruled in 2009 justiceischeap Sep 2013 #86

That's effed up Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #111

The people that insist JoeyT Sep 2013 #45

The debate becomes poisoned almost from the start. Glassunion Sep 2013 #48

We often don't know what happened in the first 24-48 hours aikoaiko Sep 2013 #49

Are we discussing cause or how something was done? The Straight Story Sep 2013 #56

Because the gun nuts would rather plug their ears, close their eyes, and scream. Vashta Nerada Sep 2013 #58

Excellent point. I think what we are seeing is one of the true religions of this country is the stevenleser Sep 2013 #61

You would be wrong The Straight Story Sep 2013 #65

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #89

Boom, you and he help prove my point! LOL! stevenleser Sep 2013 #91

LOL, if anything, your post is more evidence I am right. stevenleser Sep 2013 #90

Our founders felt it was important enough to specifically mention it by name The Straight Story Sep 2013 #93

And we should be attuned to which of the founder's views are now anachronisms, like gun ownership. stevenleser Sep 2013 #97

Spot on. nt Hekate Sep 2013 #62

K&R billh58 Sep 2013 #66

K/R! NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #70

i agree that guns are not the whole problem but guns make it easier to kill people La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #79

Thank you. Wish someone outside of DU would ask this question... Rowdyboy Sep 2013 #71

Because guns and the nuts that love them are special etherealtruth Sep 2013 #72

Three letters NRA liberal N proud Sep 2013 #78

Are you seriously suggesting... Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #85

The word "glee" leads to an OP by Rebellious Republican the day of the shooting. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #87

i got angry at your sanctimonious tone but the word glee was not only used by RR La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #108

i am seriously suggesting that both on DU and off DU people seem really quick La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #109

It is reactionary for many. NCTraveler Sep 2013 #88

Because the NRA is full of petulant children? Dash87 Sep 2013 #92

Do women, gays and transpersons have a right to self-defense? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #94

this is relevant how? La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #98

Self-defense is a human right. Let's not strip them of the means of defending themselves. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #99

and this is why conversations about gun control after massacres is considered a political issue? La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #100

If self-defense is a basic, essential human right then those rights trump Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #101

you're not answering my questions at all though. nt La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #110

You wrote in the OP -- Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #119

given the tone of your writing, it doesnt sound like i am the one La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #128

The human right to self-defense transcends its inclusion, or lack thereof, in any code of law. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #136

I never comment about gun issues on DU because there is no discussion only two Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #96

Agreed. I see essentially the same things you do. closeupready Sep 2013 #120

... La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #129

Sho' nuff! K&R!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #102

Because the NRA exists to polarize the subject and bilk $$$$$ orpupilofnature57 Sep 2013 #151