General Discussion

HolyMoley

(240 posts)

126. Stop it... just stop it right there

Wed Sep 18, 2013, 10:27 PM

Sep 2013

You're grasping at straws here trying to defend your position on a very simple question, and failing miserably at it.

I'll try to put this as simply theoretically as possible.

I'm the NRA (or whatever pro 2nd amendment group).

You're the Brady Campaign (or whatever anti 2nd amendment group).

We both sit down at the table to discuss our differences and goals regarding gun control legislation.

Putting aside any 'corporate murder inc' bullshit, there are two cards on the table: Universal Background Checks, and an "Assault Weapons Ban/Hi-Cap" magazine ban.

I offer to lend my support for Universal Background Checks.

In return, you will oppose and lend your support towards defeating any AWB and/or magazine ban.

Think about it. It's not hard or trick question.

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What are you going to do this week to support expanded background checks? [View all] BainsBane Sep 2013 OP

If I still have them, HappyMe Sep 2013 #1

Awesome! BainsBane Sep 2013 #4

Harassing JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #2

Way to go! BainsBane Sep 2013 #3

Bookmarking for later check in. NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #5

Fantastic, thanks! BainsBane Sep 2013 #6

I will call my rep mwrguy Sep 2013 #7

Call them anyway. They need to feel constituent pressure BainsBane Sep 2013 #8

I will mwrguy Sep 2013 #9

I posted this in the gungeon BainsBane Sep 2013 #10

lol, that is pathetic. I did not know the group had safe haven protection and even if it Jefferson23 Sep 2013 #13

Yeah, CT!!!!!!!! BainsBane Sep 2013 #14

Just so we're all clear... pipoman Sep 2013 #11

False BainsBane Sep 2013 #12

LOL pipoman Sep 2013 #15

Did you read the article? BainsBane Sep 2013 #17

From another person, who is not in the business of selling firearms. X_Digger Sep 2013 #19

If all gun sales are already subject to background checks BainsBane Sep 2013 #22

Did you respond to the right person? Your reply does not match my post.. X_Digger Sep 2013 #28

Answer the question BainsBane Sep 2013 #29

Answer what question, the one that includes incorrect assertion? X_Digger Sep 2013 #32

If private gun sales are so rare and the vast majority of sales already subject to background checks BainsBane Sep 2013 #34

You'd have to ask the NRA. I was generally okay with it once it was amended to preclude.. X_Digger Sep 2013 #38

So will you call now? BainsBane Sep 2013 #49

When I see the bill, I will decide. If it's just that, and not DiFi's AWB 3.0, I'll support it. X_Digger Sep 2013 #51

You are missing the point BainsBane Sep 2013 #52

What I'd really like is outlined in post #45. n/t X_Digger Sep 2013 #56

So call and tell them that BainsBane Sep 2013 #59

Wendy Davis already knows how I feel. (And psst.. she agrees with me.) X_Digger Sep 2013 #64

The prohibition on a registry was bogus Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #50

Hence my 'generally'. It was still a niggling doubt in my mind. X_Digger Sep 2013 #53

It created no registry BainsBane Sep 2013 #55

Yes it did Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #61

FBI also agrees with the Gun show Loophole Sheepshank Sep 2013 #225

I know the law pipoman Sep 2013 #21

Laws are meaningless if not enforced BainsBane Sep 2013 #23

Because for the federal government to regulate pipoman Sep 2013 #25

So you want to make sure criminals have unfettered access to weapons BainsBane Sep 2013 #27

FFS..it violates the constitution.. pipoman Sep 2013 #36

All gun sales are not subject to background checks. Jenoch Sep 2013 #238

Of course, I live in your state...... rdharma Sep 2013 #54

It doesn't change the fact that the seller commits a felony if they sell to an alien of their state. pipoman Sep 2013 #63

There is no requirement that a seller is required to obtain proof of the buyer's state of residence rdharma Sep 2013 #66

Don't ask, sell out of state=felony Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #71

I did ask...... and he said he was from here! rdharma Sep 2013 #76

Still a felony Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #79

Prove it! I acted in good faith! rdharma Sep 2013 #81

But did you perform due diligence?..what a reasonable person would do.. pipoman Sep 2013 #90

There is no "due dilignce requirement" in the law. No requirement to obtain ID of the buyer. rdharma Sep 2013 #95

You are talking about knowingly breaking the law.. pipoman Sep 2013 #97

Riiiight, Perry Mason! rdharma Sep 2013 #105

Let your ficticious buyer kill someone with your ficticious gun and see pipoman Sep 2013 #114

It was stolen....... rdharma Sep 2013 #124

So now you're a liar too...lol pipoman Sep 2013 #138

No. I'm not lying...... I'm just illustrating how easy it is to skirt the existing laws. rdharma Sep 2013 #151

"skirt the existing laws" = Criminal Offense.. pipoman Sep 2013 #185

It is illegal to provide alcohol to a minor Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #116

I thought we were talking about guns....... rdharma Sep 2013 #161

you have to make it sweetapogee Sep 2013 #108

I think you should read my posts..... rdharma Sep 2013 #190

You can really buy a gun without an ID? GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #219

No, Pipoman is correct: the only sales* that don't require a background check petronius Sep 2013 #16

There are private people who sell guns at gun shows BainsBane Sep 2013 #18

Private parties can sell to other private parties - at a gun show or petronius Sep 2013 #20

Oh for crying out loud. What's the test for "non dealer" status? Robb Sep 2013 #39

Yes, people do break the law. And the exact interpretation petronius Sep 2013 #65

Not in this case. What law are they breaking if they say they are selling as a hobby? Robb Sep 2013 #67

ATF watches this pretty close Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #74

Yeah, like dozens of arrests every single year. Robb Sep 2013 #80

The problem there is the mentality of the BATF and US Attorneys Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #84

Didn't help that the GOP dragged ATF leadership in front of a House Judiciary committee in 2006 Robb Sep 2013 #91

A thorough and consistent enforcement of the laws we already have petronius Sep 2013 #110

thank you Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #118

People can "say" whatever they want - that doesn't mean ATF, juries, petronius Sep 2013 #75

There isn't one? LOL, you'se guyz.. pipoman Sep 2013 #77

In most states, if you sell more than 4 cars every year, you need a license. Robb Sep 2013 #83

The key word there is "states". pipoman Sep 2013 #86

With FTC oversight. Do you know what the "F" stands for? Robb Sep 2013 #92

The FTC didn't oversee the sale of my 91 toyota last month.. pipoman Sep 2013 #94

The answer is federal BainsBane Sep 2013 #162

The question was/is irrelevant.. pipoman Sep 2013 #184

States rights BainsBane Sep 2013 #160

The 10th Amendment? Colorado and Washington recently? pipoman Sep 2013 #183

Slavery BainsBane Sep 2013 #193

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #206

Then there is the voting rights act and Obamacare, more big government plots BainsBane Sep 2013 #214

If they do so for profit Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #26

So if no or very few guns are sold without background checks BainsBane Sep 2013 #31

Most gun owners I know care less about the checks and more about how they are implemented Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #42

Well said... Decaffeinated Sep 2013 #129

It only need include felons and those adjudicated a danger to themselves and others BainsBane Sep 2013 #163

Records at the NICS center, yes Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #164

Why? To prove they did the check? BainsBane Sep 2013 #165

You really should research, and quit repeating blatant lies. Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #167

I asked a question BainsBane Sep 2013 #168

You also told a blatant lie Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #169

A lie means a willful misrepresnetation BainsBane Sep 2013 #171

Ahh, so its OK if you throw around false statements if you didn't mean to... Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #173

You have educated me on what it means to debate in bad faith BainsBane Sep 2013 #177

Of course you no longer care what I say- I provided facts to show you lied Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #170

We were having an productive conversation until you started being insulting BainsBane Sep 2013 #172

You told a lie. I proved it Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #174

Here's a tip BainsBane Sep 2013 #182

You might try following ... oldhippie Sep 2013 #209

I think you are seeing a perfect example of ... oldhippie Sep 2013 #210

If you say pharmacy rather than convenience store, it would be arguable petronius Sep 2013 #186

I read that they don't have to keep inventory beyond something like 60 days BainsBane Sep 2013 #187

I don't think that's the case actually - as dirty as the GOP and NRA may be petronius Sep 2013 #191

I see it as straight forward: profit BainsBane Sep 2013 #192

What percentage of new gun sales do you think are done illegally? Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #198

The reason dealers use pen and paper Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #200

Once again, you are posting bad information Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #199

Thanks for the info LittleBlue Sep 2013 #46

It absolutely may reduce access to criminals if pipoman Sep 2013 #57

our government is checking your background this very second. pls do not call it spying tho nt msongs Sep 2013 #24

Is that your excuse for making sure criminals have unfettered access to guns? BainsBane Sep 2013 #30

While it won't go anywhere with my rethug rep Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #33

I'm sure that must be possible BainsBane Sep 2013 #35

Exactly Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #43

We've discussed something similar many times.. X_Digger Sep 2013 #45

Bingo Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #58

These threads are going swimmingly. pintobean Sep 2013 #37

I called my senators to let them know I support background checks and gun control. hrmjustin Sep 2013 #40

I won't recall my legislators who vote for it. aikoaiko Sep 2013 #41

That's a start BainsBane Sep 2013 #48

Yes, but I'll probably ask for something too like eliminating import bans. aikoaiko Sep 2013 #68

because there just aren't enough guns already BainsBane Sep 2013 #69

the only ones that would be available to civilians are semi-auto firearms. aikoaiko Sep 2013 #72

only M16s prior to 1986 Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #101

I'm a bit of a known quantity, but I'll send a few more notes and report. nt Robb Sep 2013 #44

Awesome, Robb! BainsBane Sep 2013 #47

Challenge accepted etherealtruth Sep 2013 #60

Wonderful! BainsBane Sep 2013 #62

What are YOU going to do about preventing any future or potential HolyMoley Sep 2013 #70

You want me to stump for the gun industry? BainsBane Sep 2013 #73

And here I thought there were calls from the gun control side for 'compromise'. HolyMoley Sep 2013 #78

I suggest the most modest reform BainsBane Sep 2013 #82

So how do you feel about my proposal- background checks done online or via smartphone app Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #88

I said I thought it was a good idea BainsBane Sep 2013 #89

Where did I insist on anything? HolyMoley Sep 2013 #96

No guarantees exist on anything BainsBane Sep 2013 #117

To them, 'compromise' usually means, "I'll only ask for half of what I want right now." n/t X_Digger Sep 2013 #85

Are you fucking serious? BainsBane Sep 2013 #87

Give a little, get a little- that's compromise in politics. X_Digger Sep 2013 #93

This is compromise BainsBane Sep 2013 #98

Compromise entails 'giving a little'-- what are you 'giving'?!? X_Digger Sep 2013 #99

Comrpomise the Wall Street way BainsBane Sep 2013 #102

So, IOW, you're part of the problem and not the solution. HolyMoley Sep 2013 #111

Look, you want criminals to have access to guns, there is nothing I can do about that BainsBane Sep 2013 #125

i might be new here but oh my professor5000 Sep 2013 #120

the right for criminals to access guns? BainsBane Sep 2013 #122

wellet me try and make sense of all this you asked by parsing it. not a gun owner btw. professor5000 Sep 2013 #140

That is the status quo BainsBane Sep 2013 #142

Okay, let's go there HolyMoley Sep 2013 #146

All we need do is extend existing laws to private sales BainsBane Sep 2013 #149

This is why gun nuts should not be allowed on DU and at the very least their posts should not be stevenleser Sep 2013 #221

Welcome to DU gopiscrap Sep 2013 #147

Welcome... and goodbye! stevenleser Sep 2013 #224

Mad that your definition of 'compromise' was exposed as a fraud? X_Digger Sep 2013 #128

It's okay, I don't want anything from you, ever. BainsBane Sep 2013 #143

I know, it stings when someone catches you out like that. X_Digger Sep 2013 #145

"Ignore function"? HolyMoley Sep 2013 #148

Yes, that's how I roll BainsBane Sep 2013 #150

Also your last post was somewhat promising. HolyMoley Sep 2013 #154

Did you even read the OP? BainsBane Sep 2013 #155

Me thinks BainsBane Sep 2013 #166

How will I ever sleep tonight. HolyMoley Sep 2013 #176

I have no business being here? BainsBane Sep 2013 #178

I mean HolyMoley Sep 2013 #180

It was an observation BainsBane Sep 2013 #181

What made you think I "disappeared"? HolyMoley Sep 2013 #188

You said I shouldn't be here BainsBane Sep 2013 #189

The big problem is that gun owners believe that people with your attitude will never be satisfied badtoworse Sep 2013 #141

Even though I disagree with the OP HolyMoley Sep 2013 #158

Some people might even call it ..... oldhippie Sep 2013 #211

Well, that poster did say.... beevul Sep 2013 #215

I wondered how you stumbled upon that so long after I posted it BainsBane Sep 2013 #216

"Stumble"? beevul Sep 2013 #218

So sorry, your friend has left the building BainsBane Sep 2013 #217

Feel better now? oldhippie Sep 2013 #220

if it is something you agree with anyway, why would our side HAVE to give something? CTyankee Sep 2013 #222

In any negotiation, there are things you'll give on and things you won't badtoworse Sep 2013 #226

But if you agree with background checks why is that something you "give away"? CTyankee Sep 2013 #227

I'm posturing... badtoworse Sep 2013 #228

It's not what I understand this conversaton was supposed to be about. CTyankee Sep 2013 #231

What post was that? badtoworse Sep 2013 #232

not sure which exact one but there were a few IIRC. CTyankee Sep 2013 #233

It doesn't matter, I doubt anything will happen without a deal badtoworse Sep 2013 #235

Ifyou are correct, then I sense that there was a bit of change of tone by some gun folks. Perhaps a CTyankee Sep 2013 #236

Look at the bright side hack89 Sep 2013 #100

"We" already have the support of gun owners. Robb Sep 2013 #103

Sure. As demonstrated by your unbroken string of success .... oh wait. nt hack89 Sep 2013 #106

I thought this was about compromise BainsBane Sep 2013 #109

Robb certainly doesn't appear to be in a compromising mood hack89 Sep 2013 #115

It is your choice to act in the interest of society BainsBane Sep 2013 #119

I don't despise you. I don't take you that seriously hack89 Sep 2013 #123

I'm not interested in being your entertainment. BainsBane Sep 2013 #131

You cannot deny your true self. Sorry. nt hack89 Sep 2013 #135

I cannot believe these people BainsBane Sep 2013 #107

Stop it... just stop it right there HolyMoley Sep 2013 #126

the problem was I started by conceeding everything to you BainsBane Sep 2013 #127

It is a lovely evening. The stars are out. Nothing we say on this board Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #132

true, but calling your reps can make a difference BainsBane Sep 2013 #152

What is the OP about? BainsBane Sep 2013 #104

I support the background checks. My state has UBCs already. hack89 Sep 2013 #112

It has nothing to do with me BainsBane Sep 2013 #134

What decision? I support UBCs hack89 Sep 2013 #136

I'm good. bobclark86 Sep 2013 #113

You need to put pressure regardless BainsBane Sep 2013 #130

Let's see... LWolf Sep 2013 #121

I'm calling my reps and trying to encourage others to do so BainsBane Sep 2013 #139

You're no trouble. LWolf Sep 2013 #205

It would depend on whether there was a quid pro quo in the bill badtoworse Sep 2013 #133

Okay, BainsBane Sep 2013 #137

See Post No. 141 badtoworse Sep 2013 #144

The background check system needs madville Sep 2013 #153

There are 88 shootings every day BainsBane Sep 2013 #156

We need a national fingerprint registry marshall Sep 2013 #157

Well, you could propose it BainsBane Sep 2013 #159

Picking up my gun tommorow. Travis_0004 Sep 2013 #175

Are you gong to call your representatives? BainsBane Sep 2013 #179

Why do you suppose there isn't already a federal law requiring pipoman Sep 2013 #207

See this BainsBane Sep 2013 #213

I already explained to you how that bill works Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #223

Lets make a deal rl6214 Sep 2013 #194

No, of course that should not be reported BainsBane Sep 2013 #195

Then you run into the enforcement of the private sales reporting rl6214 Sep 2013 #196

Online sales have to be covered. There is no lawful reason BainsBane Sep 2013 #197

You are progressing Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #201

most online sales Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #202

That seems to be a common tactic with regard to online sales Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #204

I do quite a few online deals rl6214 Sep 2013 #208

Actually there are massive loopholes BainsBane Sep 2013 #212

That is why the latest shooter Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #203

I wrote a check to my (non-voting) Rep, Eleanor-Holmes Norton Recursion Sep 2013 #229

excellent, and I support DC voting rights regardless BainsBane Sep 2013 #230

Nothing until we re-tax the wealthy, end costly trade agreements and get a public option. grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #234

Sorry to trouble you BainsBane Sep 2013 #237