General Discussion

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)

202. You are a very interesting person

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 03:42 AM

Oct 2013

And personally, I always found the pro-life view in everything the most consistent (war, abortion, death penalty, etc).

And like those who are pro-choice, the unfair loss of bodily autonomy is persuasive to me. But so is your argument, that every law is an imposition against the individual's ability to choose. The single thing that tips me toward pro-choice is the fact that if abortion is outlawed, it would still be available. Those women would go underground if they could afford it, or use crude and dangerous methods like coat hangers and poisonous substances if they can't. I think the number of dead fetuses would be nearly identical, we'd just have dead or maimed women on top of it. So I am pro-choice.

But I understand why you hold the views that you do, and didn't reply with the intention of being argumentative. Your reasoning is sound even if I don't share the same ultimate position on abortion. You are being unfairly demonized for having a philosophy supportive of all living things.

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Contrary to popular opinion, DU is supposed to be for politically *liberal* people. Either that or [View all] Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 OP

My MSNBC score said I was a Bleeding Heart Liberal. So I guess I'm welcome here Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #1

Your MSNBC score? RobertEarl Oct 2013 #4

Disagree. The most liberal view is against that stuff. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #5

That is exactly what I meant the post to say RobertEarl Oct 2013 #12

To which I object. One example of why I posted this. Either this site is for liberals and we have Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #21

It is in constant flux RobertEarl Oct 2013 #31

The TOS seems to think so, if you believe that DU is for preachers. As someone else said, Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #64

I think that is what RobertEarl was saying! sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #79

You are correct. I misunderstood which "outer edges" s/he was referring to. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #88

most all of us support some level of spying. Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #6

what about the militia movement? Or neo-Nazi groups? nt el_bryanto Oct 2013 #7

I was more referring to the recent broad swath spying on vast reams of MANY Americans' data. Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #9

nods - just curious - i agree that the broad brush stuff is really something they should stop el_bryanto Oct 2013 #14

You're simply taking your personal view and labeling anyone with a more moderate view treestar Oct 2013 #242

Nevertherless, it seems to me that if the TOS for an entire site says the site is for "liberals," Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #10

I think we all have the idea of what it means Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #13

There are a heck of a lot of posts here lately espousing points of view that I believe most liberals Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #26

then it would probably be good to point that out to the posters in a case by case Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #28

That would be extremely inefficient. Not to mention, specific to me. I did not write the TOS. I'd Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #75

We absolutely do not all have the same idea of what it means. cui bono Oct 2013 #52

I have been thinking the same thing. Maybe Liberal doesn't mean exactly what I think it means, or Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #78

Normally, liberal covers a scope of ideas. By definition, "liberal" is not a rigid term. JDPriestly Oct 2013 #128

None of that is new to me, yet I am still wonder what definition of liberal is meant in the DU TOS. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #173

It's a matter of recognizing how other people think treestar Oct 2013 #243

Maybe there's something wrong with it or maybe not, but the TOS does label and exclude certain Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #440

True but then labeling people with those labels treestar Oct 2013 #457

There IS that part of the TOS that states Volaris Oct 2013 #97

Nope. At least that's not what the TOS says. If I say, and I repeat my self, that my club is Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #115

that's what jumps out at me....there have been NUMEROUS violations of that! VanillaRhapsody Oct 2013 #123

Define what you enlightenment Oct 2013 #266

It means within the political framework....DEMOCRATS....not Anarchy.... VanillaRhapsody Oct 2013 #312

Thank you. enlightenment Oct 2013 #415

Very interesting treestar Oct 2013 #245

I think you are right on the mark with that. zeemike Oct 2013 #103

More like redefninition. Maedhros Oct 2013 #113

Notice how the R's fans the fire of their most rightward faction and it gets attention and gets cui bono Oct 2013 #116

Or, they are afraid of embracing liberals. They may support quite leftward liberal Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #120

Agreed. The monied interests benefit by political shifts to the right, not the left. GoneFishin Oct 2013 #251

Yep. This site would be a lot more Democratic if those types were tombstoned. cui bono Oct 2013 #344

^^^^^^^This is the correct answer^^^^^^^ woo me with science Oct 2013 #347

I definitely agree that watering down, or G_j Oct 2013 #289

In an endless downward spiral, the drift to the right also makes it more likely that Right-leaners Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #444

Such as "Social Security is unsustainable" [n/t] Maedhros Oct 2013 #111

I know, right. How many times does that have to be debunked? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #445

The Bell Curve? Oilwellian Oct 2013 #38

do you know anything about statistics? then you will know most populations Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #43

The population in question must be defined. Otherwise, you have a bell curve that describes all Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #83

We don't know anything of the sort. We do assume that a lot. We also assume randomness a lot. bemildred Oct 2013 #238

Yes, one must be careful with assumptions but your Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #255

I have a B.A. in Math and and M.S. in Computer Science. bemildred Oct 2013 #261

+ about a million. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #446

Thank you. ntg bemildred Oct 2013 #450

Here, this is what I mean: bemildred Oct 2013 #480

Well I've just lost all faith in MSNBC. cui bono Oct 2013 #48

Here's the test: GreenPartyVoter Oct 2013 #286

So was mine ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2013 #512

That's a whole different beast there. Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #2

That's the key though. Establishment liberals versus more liberal progressives. SolutionisSolidarity Oct 2013 #27

I noticed that also about dkf Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #29

It also depends on what the definition of right wing talking points are - el_bryanto Oct 2013 #3

Well, again, maybe that needs a definition as well. The writers of the TOS included, "Teabaggers Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #17

nods- but those talk about specific types of Conservatives el_bryanto Oct 2013 #23

Perhaps, but many of those viewpoints that are not necessarily right wing are also clearly not Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #30

The problem is that somewhere it states that this site is to support Dems cui bono Oct 2013 #60

Not a disconnect in terms of DU membership requirements. If I say a club is for teens who like to Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #106

OK - but again el_bryanto Oct 2013 #254

So-called 'free trade' is not liberal. It's not even correctly named as it is not free trade at all. cui bono Oct 2013 #346

Thank you for proving my point el_bryanto Oct 2013 #351

Well there are a lot of people who call themselves liberal when they really are not. cui bono Oct 2013 #358

There is a litmus test here - but it's not very long el_bryanto Oct 2013 #359

I don't disagree with that. As long as the regulations have in them something about limited size cui bono Oct 2013 #362

Not being in favor of marriage equality as a "litmus test" for DU is VERY recent MNBrewer Oct 2013 #375

I think I love you. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #447

I know. So, the question is, what does the TOS mean by the term "liberal". Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #438

is it more accruate to say that the system that pays them and helps keep them ELECTED Volaris Oct 2013 #110

Well they do say things and support things and vote for things that aren't liberal cui bono Oct 2013 #122

is that a problem that can be adressed and corrected from WITHIN that same system, IYO? Volaris Oct 2013 #132

Possibly. If the election system were overhauled. cui bono Oct 2013 #340

Yes, I agree, that is definitely at the root of the confusion Dragonfli Oct 2013 #117

Disagree Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #181

I think this journal entry covers that . . . HughBeaumont Oct 2013 #471

Good luck with your definition... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #8

I'm anti-abortion, but I still NEVER vote for a Rethug. I don't always vote for Dems either. Th1onein Oct 2013 #11

you can be anti-abortion without being anti-choice Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #15

True that. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #18

You can call me anti-choice or anti-abortion. Th1onein Oct 2013 #51

So you don't support the right of women to control their bodies. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #102

I do not support abortion, period. You are framing it in your way, from an INFERENCE that you make. Th1onein Oct 2013 #112

I support third trimester abortions. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #135

Are you talking about unrestricted third trimester abortions? LittleBlue Oct 2013 #194

Yes, I am. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #357

I am in your camp, Th1onein, as are many longtime Democrats. No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #186

And in the case of ectopic pregnancies? NickB79 Oct 2013 #236

Do some more research on this... Agschmid Oct 2013 #262

Ectopic pregnancies are sometimes found before they rupture, in which case it is ended before to uppityperson Oct 2013 #272

Obviously, no one could carry an ectopic pregnancy to term. Th1onein Oct 2013 #318

Luckily, the law allows that. Gormy Cuss Oct 2013 #363

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Th1onein Oct 2013 #364

No one?? There have been quite a few ectopic pregnancies that resulted in live births. REP Oct 2013 #389

I will not personally engage in or supporty a specific abortion on my own moral grounds hooverville29 Oct 2013 #285

I call you a hypocrite unless you have your name on the list for LIVE organ transplant. idwiyo Oct 2013 #239

She isn't listed; claims no one would want her organs. REP Oct 2013 #390

But of course! "All life is sacred" BUT hers is most sacred of all! Damn hypocrite. idwiyo Oct 2013 #402

Interesting thought exercise - Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #525

Agree completely. Well said. n/t cui bono Oct 2013 #71

Are you opposed to the practice of abortion or are you opposed to the legality of abortion? nt el_bryanto Oct 2013 #16

Well, she calls women who've had abortions "murderers" REP Oct 2013 #22

Directly - or just by implication as in her post above? el_bryanto Oct 2013 #25

See my post #264 n/t tammywammy Oct 2013 #265

Directly. REP Oct 2013 #388

Do you have a link to an example? MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #143

I searched, here's some examples tammywammy Oct 2013 #264

Unfucking real. JTFrog Oct 2013 #268

No shit^ Caretha Oct 2013 #406

True that. DURHAM D Oct 2013 #416

This message was self-deleted by its author LiberalLoner Nov 2013 #527

Thank you. MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #319

Both. Th1onein Oct 2013 #53

Than you should probably find another board that fits you better. nt el_bryanto Oct 2013 #252

I fit in just fine here, el_bryanto, but thanks for your advice. Th1onein Oct 2013 #302

If you feel like Abortion should be legally proscribed - you don't really fit in around here el_bryanto Oct 2013 #314

Well, thank you for your opinion, but I'm here. Th1onein Oct 2013 #316

THIS is why I love it around here. Volaris Oct 2013 #121

Holy shit. You're seriously anti-abortion? What the hell are you doing here? Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #24

Or is it? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #33

I've never actually seen anyone say they were anti-abortion on here before. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #36

Actually, Gravitycollapse, I think that there are a lot of people who consider themselves liberal Th1onein Oct 2013 #67

I'm more concerned with the mother than with a zygote or embryo or fetus. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #76

This is where we differ: Where life begins. Th1onein Oct 2013 #82

Would you ProSense Oct 2013 #86

Yes. But I would also put other things into place, at the same time. Th1onein Oct 2013 #100

If you are attempting to make yourself sound noble for disparaging female autonomy... Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #105

No one is disparaging female autonomy. Are you serious? Th1onein Oct 2013 #109

Being anti-abortion is being anti-autonomy. The two go hand in hand. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #138

It certainly is a right, but there is also the right of the child to live. Th1onein Oct 2013 #142

A fertilised egg is not a child. Nor is a zygote. Nor is an embryo. Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #193

I guess you also support mandatory live organ donation. idwiyo Oct 2013 #211

Wow. That really hit me. I never really heard it expressed that way. cui bono Oct 2013 #370

Logical conclusion to anti-choicer's claim that "every life is sacred". Wonder how many people died idwiyo Oct 2013 #403

Please define "Life" as you are using it here. It has different meanings and hence use and I would uppityperson Oct 2013 #274

This position makes no sense. ProSense Oct 2013 #119

Sorry, but you're wrong. Th1onein Oct 2013 #124

You support repealing Roe v Wade ProSense Oct 2013 #126

Sex education is NOTHING like abstinence education. Th1onein Oct 2013 #133

It was not a literal comparison. ProSense Oct 2013 #137

Just education, ProSense? See? That's dishonest. Th1onein Oct 2013 #145

Again, ProSense Oct 2013 #154

Whatever, Prosense. If I don't respond to you again? Well, you know the deal..... Th1onein Oct 2013 #159

But you think someone has a right to legislate that a woman carry to term and birth a child. cui bono Oct 2013 #372

You don't get to define life. RedCappedBandit Oct 2013 #260

I'd like her to define "Life" for us as I think she is using it in a different way, different defini uppityperson Oct 2013 #276

"YOU believe, however, that life does not begin at conception" WHAT is "life"? uppityperson Oct 2013 #275

WTF. What about if I don't want a damn baby?! pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #378

Roe v. Wade wasn't the beginning of women having abortions. JTFrog Oct 2013 #493

Our little noble hero thinks ova and sperm are dead before they meet in a uterus REP Oct 2013 #393

You have to understand that your are denying female autonomy. And that is misogyny. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #87

I'm pro-choice and I think life begins at conception Recursion Oct 2013 #91

This is where I am, which is why I always say I'm against abortion for myself. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #93

I understand what you're saying, ScreamingMeemie, but we impose our belief systems upon others every Th1onein Oct 2013 #114

No we don't. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #150

When you pay taxes, you are supporting war. Th1onein Oct 2013 #153

I am also anti-war...You are really stretching here. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #156

All laws affect others, ScreamingMeemie. All of them. Th1onein Oct 2013 #158

Good night Th1onein. You're being deliberately obtuse when it comes to dictating ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #160

Good night, ScreamingMeemie. I'm sorry you cannot understand. Th1onein Oct 2013 #170

I understand completely... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #171

I know that you think you understand, but you do not. Th1onein Oct 2013 #175

No, I do. And it scares the crap out of me. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #182

The only Duer to rec it. Whoah. uppityperson Oct 2013 #281

I think I know which post you are talking about, and the title of the post wasn't the subject of the Th1onein Oct 2013 #301

Drop the condescension. It's bad enough you are against women's rights cui bono Oct 2013 #373

Doesn't everyone think that their position is reasonable? I'm no more condescending than anyone who Th1onein Oct 2013 #427

But life as in a viable human life outside the womb, does not begin at conception. cui bono Oct 2013 #433

I am not being condescending. Especially when people ignore what I am saying and only lob insults. Th1onein Oct 2013 #436

Verbally abusive and lobbing insults? Where? cui bono Oct 2013 #441

Let me quote you: Th1onein Oct 2013 #455

Oh bullshit. JTFrog Oct 2013 #458

I don't expect anyone to jump on my bandwagon. But I do expect polite discourse. Th1onein Oct 2013 #468

Words fail me. Describing your behavior in terms you do not like is an insult and personal attack? uppityperson Oct 2013 #464

That was the very first post to you and I wouldn't consider it "verbally abusive". cui bono Oct 2013 #467

Cui Bono, we disagree. I actually think that this position is very consistent with the liberal Th1onein Oct 2013 #469

Statistics? I don't believe that liberals are anti-choice. cui bono Oct 2013 #472

There are actually a group of liberals, Democrats for Life, who are against abortion. Th1onein Oct 2013 #474

Dems are not necessarily liberal though. Do you have stats as to percentage of liberals cui bono Oct 2013 #475

Democrats aren't liberal? Wow. Th1onein Oct 2013 #478

That surprises you? There's quite a political spectrum. cui bono Oct 2013 #479

And Al Gore isn't liberal, either, huh? Th1onein Oct 2013 #483

Where did I say that? Anyway, did you have a link to statistics of anti-choice liberals? cui bono Oct 2013 #488

What would be the point? Does it matter? I don't think it does. Th1onein Oct 2013 #492

The point is you claimed there are many liberals who are anti-choice. cui bono Oct 2013 #494

I think you may have missed my edits. Th1onein Oct 2013 #495

How many of those Democrats for "life" are on mandatory live organ donation list? idwiyo Oct 2013 #498

Sorry, Idwiyo, in order to buy into your argument, I'd have to agree with your paradigm. Th1onein Oct 2013 #504

Post removed Post removed Oct 2013 #506

If you're here to lob insults, I'm not listening. If you are here to discuss this issue, you need Th1onein Oct 2013 #510

About 40% of Dems self-describe as pro-life. I think that's a pretty substantial number. Th1onein Oct 2013 #505

You originally said liberals. Not Dems. Not the same thing. n/t cui bono Oct 2013 #511

That's right. You don't think Dems are liberals. Th1onein Oct 2013 #513

Yes it is silly. You can't even acknowledge that there are moderate Dems who aren't liberal. cui bono Oct 2013 #516

You don't HAVE to change your position Th1onein Oct 2013 #519

If you want me to change my framing away from making it a women's rights issue it ain't gonna happen cui bono Oct 2013 #520

You've got to be able to see the other side's viewpoint, though. Th1onein Oct 2013 #521

This message was self-deleted by its author cui bono Oct 2013 #522

I do see the other side. That's a big part of why I feel the way I do. cui bono Oct 2013 #523

I'll get you a link and you can peruse it. It's got statistics on it. Th1onein Oct 2013 #524

That poster has been very polite and slung no insults. Condescending is also saying someone who uppityperson Oct 2013 #463

Thank you. cui bono Oct 2013 #473

Do you pay taxes and support war? Why or how do you manage to pay no taxes? uppityperson Oct 2013 #280

Now you equate paying taxes with supporting your child financially? What law says we have to respect uppityperson Oct 2013 #279

I take it then you refuse to pay any taxes, correct? uppityperson Oct 2013 #278

I wish I were brave enough to take a stand on this. Th1onein Oct 2013 #320

I see. So you deny women the right to an abortion for morality, but are ok funding wars that kill uppityperson Oct 2013 #323

I think that is really sad, Recursion. Th1onein Oct 2013 #130

None of those infringe on bodily autonomy or require one to risk one's life Recursion Oct 2013 #134

Both of those laws require us to intervene, and yes, in a dangerous situation sometimes. Th1onein Oct 2013 #140

"choice should begin before a person has unprotected sex"? what about in cases of rape or contracept uppityperson Oct 2013 #282

Come on, now, uppityperson! I have not ever called anyone a "damn slut." Geez. Th1onein Oct 2013 #322

I notice you didn't answer any of my questions. Try again, I'll rephrase it to take out those words. uppityperson Oct 2013 #324

I don't think that either rape or contraceptive failure is a choice. Of course not. Th1onein Oct 2013 #327

You are fine legislating that raped women and those pregnant by contraceptive failure must try and uppityperson Oct 2013 #329

I said abortion should not be used as a method of birth control. Th1onein Oct 2013 #334

Will you define "life" since there are many meanings and I want to hear yours? Thank you. uppityperson Oct 2013 #337

Please read my other posts for answers to your questions. Th1onein Oct 2013 #341

I have and did not see it. I understand you well. uppityperson Oct 2013 #343

Most would agree because they've bought RW talking points pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #382

So you believe a women who is raped and impregnated should be forced to carry to term. cui bono Oct 2013 #374

I'm sure since Caretha Oct 2013 #410

You don't get to decide when life begins so suggest you put a lid on it. DURHAM D Oct 2013 #418

So should women who've had abortions be charged with murder? pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #376

There are people who don't support gay marriage posting here. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #73

What argument do they give for their position? Th1onein Oct 2013 #147

Typically religious. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #148

Kind of silly, I think. Th1onein Oct 2013 #155

It is a choice not supported by religion or morals. Rather like your take on abortion. uppityperson Oct 2013 #283

I will not participate in or support a specific abortion myself, and believe others hooverville29 Oct 2013 #287

We have a poster who says 'gay marriage is unthinkable' Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #290

HolyFuckingShit. I am speechless. Seriously, what the fuck next? idwiyo Oct 2013 #404

to be fair, that was 9 years ago. I'd like to hear if they feel the same now. Hmmm, they posted toda uppityperson Oct 2013 #408

See, that right there, for me, is hugely anti-liberal. What the bible says should not matter in Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #448

That was NINE years ago, I asked them if they had changed their mind and got this to share. uppityperson Oct 2013 #485

Given post 485, I think you might want to consider deleting your accusation. msanthrope Nov 2013 #528

I am a woman, and I am also a radical feminist. And I am against abortion. Th1onein Oct 2013 #58

You are not a radical feminist AND against abortion. Those two are mutually exclusive issues. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #84

This message was self-deleted by its author Recursion Oct 2013 #89

I'm sorry, but you do not define me or my politics. I am both a radical feminist and anti-abortion. Th1onein Oct 2013 #90

Yes, I'm sure there must be tens of you. And you all misappropriate the term "feminism." Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #96

Gravitycollapse, I have always had tons of respect for you. Have some for me. Th1onein Oct 2013 #107

I'm going to mull this entire thing over night. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #141

Well, thank you for that, Gravitycollapse. Th1onein Oct 2013 #144

After reading the thread, I wanted to put in my 2 cents. Mother Of Four Oct 2013 #205

Well said! Spazito Oct 2013 #256

There is nothing that is black or white here. Th1onein Oct 2013 #300

"But we must work towards ending abortion." Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #412

Do they vote for Democratic candidates, too? Th1onein Oct 2013 #417

Good for you. Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #420

It's actually NOT conservative. Th1onein Oct 2013 #425

Oh yes... Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #459

+1 tammywammy Oct 2013 #461

Not a good argument for your position. EVERYONE ELSE thinks such and such.....sorry, doesn't fly. Th1onein Oct 2013 #470

You cannot be a liberal and pro-life. Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #482

There are quite a few liberals who would disagree with you. Th1onein Oct 2013 #484

Uh huh. Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #491

Bravo! Well said, Mother of Four. historylovr Oct 2013 #306

I've slept on it and have concluded there is no possible way to be a progressive... Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #326

+1000000000000000000000000 uppityperson Oct 2013 #330

I'm sorry you came to that conclusion. There are many progressives that would disagree with you. Th1onein Oct 2013 #335

Uh huh. uppityperson Oct 2013 #342

A progressive who is anti-abortion is a progressive by name only. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #361

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But that is all that it is. Th1onein Oct 2013 #365

Being pro-choice is foundational to the progressive movement. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #368

That is what you wish to believe. Good luck with it. Th1onein Oct 2013 #369

+1 Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #481

There is no respect to be had for your postion. JTFrog Oct 2013 #207

Why should we have respect for your opinion denying women the right to a safe, legal, hygienic abort uppityperson Oct 2013 #284

I somehow got the idea that you are male. Quantess Oct 2013 #191

I'm a woman. Th1onein Oct 2013 #311

Thanks. Actually I was asking Gravity Collapse, not you. Quantess Oct 2013 #367

Is it appropriate for a male to call himself a "radical feminist"? Quantess Oct 2013 #197

Yes it is possible for a male to be a radical feminist. Although highly unlikely... Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #321

I only asked, because you say you're a "radical feminist". Quantess Oct 2013 #371

I live up to it. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #379

Not true. *CHOICE* is advocated for each woman, not a predetermination of what the choice should be. hooverville29 Oct 2013 #288

You are a very interesting person LittleBlue Oct 2013 #202

No one has asked whether what this supporter of all life would do if the life of the child Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #213

For me, the life of the mother comes before anything else LittleBlue Oct 2013 #217

I think that, in that case, it is the mother's decision. Th1onein Oct 2013 #317

When the mother is unconscious and the decision must be made immediately? Either option is equally Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #426

I really don't know the answer to that question, but I would veer in the direction of saving the Th1onein Oct 2013 #428

Thanks for the reply. So dictating the use of a person's body part(s) to support a life is not the Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #435

I think that they are radically different from each other. Th1onein Oct 2013 #456

Did you even read that post? "A" is radically different from "A" and "most people" would agree? uppityperson Oct 2013 #501

If a pg woman were unconcious and dying, you would "probably" save her life by an abortion if that uppityperson Oct 2013 #500

Ask them their definition of "life", would you. Since it has been thrown out undefined, if you would uppityperson Oct 2013 #465

Thank you, LittleBlue. Th1onein Oct 2013 #315

In a case where the mother's life depends on aborting the fetus, who dies by your rules? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #216

Let me flip this for you: pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #381

Radical feminist Caretha Oct 2013 #411

There was a quote from Sam Waterson's character in Law and Order. moriah Oct 2013 #229

I have always been anti-abortion. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #39

Anti-abortion, anti-war, anti-death penalty is a pro-life ethic RFKHumphreyObama Oct 2013 #178

Screw anyone who wants to impose their beliefs on my right to chose what to do with my body. idwiyo Oct 2013 #201

I have a big problem with calling an anti-abortion stance a "pro-life ethic," truebluegreen Oct 2013 #292

Absolutely, RFKHumphreyObama. The fact is that NO ONE is pro-abortion. Th1onein Oct 2013 #325

Sometimes abortion is preferred to continuing the pregnancy. And it IS a women's right issue. uppityperson Oct 2013 #328

We disagree. Th1onein Oct 2013 #336

Obviously. You call abortion homicide and women who get them murders and yourself a radical feminist uppityperson Oct 2013 #339

I'm pro-abortion. tammywammy Oct 2013 #332

Sure you are. Th1onein Oct 2013 #338

I am. tammywammy Oct 2013 #345

I am also. That's why I have spent a lot of my career working & volunteering at reproductive health uppityperson Oct 2013 #348

I'm glad you got the chance to air your views. Th1onein Oct 2013 #349

No shit. tammywammy Oct 2013 #350

I'm not going to argue with you. We clearly disagree. But if you want to continue to air Th1onein Oct 2013 #352

Yes, we do clearly disagree. tammywammy Oct 2013 #353

Those are your beliefs and you are entitled to them. As I am to mine. Now, we are done. Th1onein Oct 2013 #366

never mind uppityperson Oct 2013 #356

Amen sister. pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #401

I believe abortion is a moral choice... JohnnyRingo Oct 2013 #209

You said "I know many good dems who don't want abortion to be legal" DURHAM D Oct 2013 #421

I have a few strong Catholic friends. JohnnyRingo Oct 2013 #507

This issue is what changed my repub mom into a strong Democrat. If you vote or work to restrict uppityperson Oct 2013 #502

I know a lot of progressives Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #225

Yep, women's rights always take a back seat to everything else. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #354

You shouldn't be banned Bradical79 Oct 2013 #271

You're anti-abortion? What are you doing posting on a Democratic site? Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #413

Alas those of us who are liberals nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #19

the most no-holds-barred place I ever posted was DU circa 2004 Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #20

When did you first become a member of DU? nt Zorra Oct 2013 #66

either late spring or early summer of 2003 Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #68

I know what you mean Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #35

Things that leave you puzzled nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #41

And lightly salted Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #47

Which one is the other? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #46

Updating: Should gun-banning "neutralize" abortion banning? Eleanors38 Oct 2013 #161

Yup nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #263

Hmm. I see a membership requirement in DU's future: Eleanors38 Oct 2013 #267

The latter to trigger purges nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #277

the definition of liberal is liberally applied nt SwampG8r Oct 2013 #32

All too liberally, imnsho. So, I'd like to know if certain posters who I don't think are liberals Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #40

as much as it hurts me to agree with him SwampG8r Oct 2013 #61

So, a person who is anti-abortion, anti-food stamps, anti-regulation, anti-equal rights, Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #70

the person you describe is delusional SwampG8r Oct 2013 #92

On this site, whoever owns it and controls it has that right. I just wish they'd be clear Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #146

You win the thread. Brilliant. Volaris Oct 2013 #151

Have you checked with Ask the Administrators for clarification? or is this argument sufficient? Hekate Oct 2013 #34

What is "Ask the Administrators"? Is that in the TOS? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #42

Here Hekate Oct 2013 #198

Thank you. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #234

*facepalm* n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #203

You've got over 20,000 posts. You can't expect newer members to know everything you know about DU. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #449

Maybe you should get a little more DU knowledge under your belt before drawing lines. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #497

same here. some fail to see they have a very narrow definition of "liberal" Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #59

Apparently the OP thinks the DU-TOS is Holy Writ, and he's the prophet who interprets it Hekate Oct 2013 #212

Interesting. You choose to *interpret* my words to mean something I did not say or mean, and you Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #451

LOL Hekate Oct 2013 #477

Good advice, Hekate~ Cha Oct 2013 #74

+1 freshwest Oct 2013 #136

great advice nt steve2470 Oct 2013 #219

Doing so is currently notable only by its absense - just checked ATA. dipsydoodle Oct 2013 #232

+10^10^100 stevenleser Oct 2013 #247

I'm to the left of President Obama, but I am a partisan first. nt BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #37

How does that apply to the part of the TOS I cited? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #44

Because I think when people take positions in line with a democratic President... BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #50

A pass for what? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #149

They do "get a pass." ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #157

They should get a pass enlightenment Oct 2013 #270

Partisan for what? Oilwellian Oct 2013 #49

Wowie! Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #65

With one little modification, no one disputes that. stevenleser Oct 2013 #295

Seems to me you are being selective jazzimov Oct 2013 #45

If an anti-abortion, anti-GLBT Dem can take a GOP seat leftstreet Oct 2013 #56

If that's the Democrat running, absolutely. You know Kucinich was anti-choice until '04, right? Recursion Oct 2013 #81

Something like that would certainly make DU lively n/t leftstreet Oct 2013 #94

Well, if we take back the House, it will be through anti-choice blue dogs Recursion Oct 2013 #104

The 50-state strategy under the leadership of Dr. Dean had TWO parts though-- Volaris Oct 2013 #168

True, but no plan survives contact with the enemy Recursion Oct 2013 #179

Fair enough challenge to the fact that I offered more of an opinion than a fact Volaris Oct 2013 #183

[i]This would be in italics in a message text[/i] Recursion Oct 2013 #187

LOl @ the buttons. DERP!!! but thanks for the keyboard command anyway=) Volaris Oct 2013 #192

Another cool button thing: highlight some text and click one of them Recursion Oct 2013 #215

My goal is to get the most progressive Democrat elected MineralMan Oct 2013 #269

Like this guy: ProSense Oct 2013 #108

Yeah, I'm selecting a specific part of the TOS that says a specific thing. Those other things Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #57

Spin all you want, the TOS means that jazzimov Oct 2013 #129

I'm not spinning anything. If you are trying to say that "DU is for politically liberal people" Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #177

As I posted above, this is where the problem lies. The elected Dems and the ones who are "allowed" cui bono Oct 2013 #69

They want us to betray our ideals in favor of Party unity. Maedhros Oct 2013 #127

Actually, I think they are looking for those whose ideals jazzimov Oct 2013 #131

I believe it goes beyond that. Maedhros Oct 2013 #310

Actually, enlightenment Oct 2013 #54

Correct, but it would be crazy to call a site Democratic Underground if it's not for Democrats. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #184

CS says differently, it is Democratic Underground, not Liberal Underground, Skip Intro Oct 2013 #55

One of the very first sentences in the TOS is begins this way: Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #162

Most people have mixed opinions creeksneakers2 Oct 2013 #62

Perhaps the thought police would be kind enough to hand out BlueStreak Oct 2013 #80

and take it a step further Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #98

Sounds like you want less Democrats elected. That is against the TOS, too. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #169

no, I am just Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #172

That's really pouty. If you believe in liberal policies, you should vote for politicians who also Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #185

look up thread Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #206

First of all, what you said has nothing to do with what I said. I will repeat: Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #220

Who died and left you in charge of being the arbiter BlueStreak Oct 2013 #305

Lol! Who died and took your reading comprehension skills with them? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #424

Don't be silly. Anyone who wants to call themselves a liberal is one. Magic wand. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #167

Yes, the TOS contains a number of types of people who are not welcome. You should read it. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #164

Who decides what a RW talking point is anymore? ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #63

I support free trade agreements and the Citizens United decision. Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #99

I don't feel like I understand enough economics treestar Oct 2013 #244

If there are no differences, then there should be no separate parties. They will totally have to Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #188

CatsUnderground... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #189

It's called the Internet... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #226

Brilliant. nt riqster Oct 2013 #253

I would rather not have liberal purity tests, ZombieHorde Oct 2013 #72

I don't even think the real clashes are about degree of liberalness, but about pragmatism vs. Recursion Oct 2013 #85

+1 JoePhilly Oct 2013 #246

I agree. I think that is a huge part of it. stevenleser Oct 2013 #298

Who's to say what's liberal, even some of the time? Do we have a definition or not? If you Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #190

The actual book definitions of "Liberal" and "Progressive" are themselves broad. stevenleser Oct 2013 #299

Depends on the book. And many would not consider Wikipedia "the book." Nevertheless, DU's TOS Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #432

Actually DU is for all types of liberals and all types of Democrats Recursion Oct 2013 #77

That seems to be the best summation that's been put forward yet to my mind. Volaris Oct 2013 #165

The TOS specifically says it's for liberals. So, that would mean not for Democrats who are not Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #196

Wait, you think Democratic Underground would be for a liberal Green... SidDithers Oct 2013 #294

You think that I think that? I never said that. My most recent thought about what the TOS says is Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #434

Keep reading LostOne4Ever Oct 2013 #95

+1 freshwest Oct 2013 #139

Since the first sentence of the TOS specifies that DU is for "politically liberal people," Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #195

are we going to back to the political purity days dlwickham Oct 2013 #101

Kind of harsh calling what you think bullshit, but hey, feel free to discredit Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #199

I've been on here for a long time dlwickham Oct 2013 #291

Again, you react to your incorrect interpretation of my words. If you were really good at spotting Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #437

I don't care who posts on here dlwickham Oct 2013 #462

Wow, who knew that a troll getting banned would bring out such honesty? ProSense Oct 2013 #118

Be prepared to get blasted for your "purity" test and "Oh, so YOU should get to decide what's Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #204

Perhaps some reading comprehension might help you intaglio Oct 2013 #125

Seriously. You think you made a point? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #208

Where in your quote from the TOS does it mention Democrats? intaglio Oct 2013 #227

Democratic Underground is where I got the word on which you focus here, but that was not the focus Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #230

In other words your original OP was rubbish intaglio Oct 2013 #235

You seem to be the one who wants to tell other people what they mean. Whoever wrote the TOS Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #439

You were the one asking for the TOS to be changed intaglio Oct 2013 #442

No. I said if the TOS doesn't mean what it says, it should be changed to reflect Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #443

i.e. you want them changed to reflect what you think they should mean intaglio Oct 2013 #452

Again, no. You're just making shit up. Nothing to do with me. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #454

Quoting your original OP intaglio Oct 2013 #460

This may or may not fit in with the TOS, but I haven't seen anything about We People Oct 2013 #152

I like your concept. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #210

Dang. I'm taking some time off, but I've been lurking...who could completely abstain after 8 years? cherokeeprogressive Oct 2013 #163

I tried it once... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #166

... cherokeeprogressive Oct 2013 #180

Well, someone has to do it. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #224

good to see you back, cherokeeprogressive ! I really thought you were a "goner" steve2470 Oct 2013 #214

Interesting that you think my OP says things it does not say, but hey, you obviously wanted to be Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #222

+1 NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #259

Especially when those Right Wing talking points are from such an extreme Right Wing. nt Enthusiast Oct 2013 #174

Is there a litmus test? JohnnyRingo Oct 2013 #176

Nice of you to misinterpret my OP to fit your own image of what you feel like railing against. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #200

I was being a wise guy there, and I'm sorry. JohnnyRingo Oct 2013 #221

Apology accepted. You say you let the system take care of the far right posters. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #228

Perhaps I should have said "report abuse". JohnnyRingo Oct 2013 #308

But there is a limit to tolerance. If not, DU should ban no one, ever, for any reason. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #431

DU = the Democratic Party base, progressives, stealth conservatives, trolls, moderates.... steve2470 Oct 2013 #218

My OP doesn't call for narrowing of the TOS. At first I was pointing out that the Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #231

DU members tend to be more liberal on some issues, more moderate, or even centrist on others. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #248

DKF was banned for promoting non-liberal ideas, no? It did have something to do with a label. So, Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #429

No, not really. Here's an example of what got DFK banned. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #515

For me, the difference between Democrats and Republicans is taking care of one another LittleBlue Oct 2013 #223

You make a good point, but the question related to my OP and your reply is this, Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #233

Here are the results from DU's 2010 survey.. Upton Oct 2013 #237

Not exactly. Change question 4 to say "including anti-choice" and watch what's going to happen. idwiyo Oct 2013 #240

I think you hit on the issue with that survey, too much left to interpretation, too much ambiguity stevenleser Oct 2013 #297

I bet good number of "pragmatic liberals" have a problem sharing DU with a anti-choice cheerleader idwiyo Oct 2013 #331

That's the point though, isn't it? Where each of us draws the line is potentially different, and... stevenleser Oct 2013 #360

My line is drawn at supporting Equal Rights for everyone. No exceptions. idwiyo Oct 2013 #377

You mean, besides the fact that they are different issues? stevenleser Oct 2013 #380

So, it's OK to treat a woman as an object and force her to risk her health and possibly life idwiyo Oct 2013 #384

Oh FFS, please dispense with the melodrama and the straw men, no one is buying it. stevenleser Oct 2013 #386

You don't have a problem it seems to accept anti-choicers as allies, according to what you wrote. idwiyo Oct 2013 #392

That's exactly what I thought. "Allies". LMAO. Really? stevenleser Oct 2013 #395

The moment they start demanding they get what they want in exchange for their support. idwiyo Oct 2013 #396

moved post to the right place. idwiyo Oct 2013 #391

That's interesting and important. But, as far as my OP, it was about the TOS and what it was saying Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #453

DU is insular enough. I think these purity demands sufrommich Oct 2013 #241

A lot of "Right Wing talking points" are actually true when liberals say them. gulliver Oct 2013 #249

Posters should agree with at least half of the Democratic National Platform FarCenter Oct 2013 #250

It seems that you ascribe to the "first sentence is the key" school of analysis. riqster Oct 2013 #257

liberal vs progressive? Trillo Oct 2013 #258

It all comes down to Authoritarian vs Egalitarian. Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #313

There's a lot to being liberal SamYeager Oct 2013 #273

"working within the system to elect more Democrats"... SidDithers Oct 2013 #293

And not particularly well enforced and as a result... stevenleser Oct 2013 #303

Generates lots of traffic and hits, tho...nt SidDithers Oct 2013 #307

Yes it is. BlueCaliDem Oct 2013 #514

Oh, boy. LWolf Oct 2013 #296

k and r gopiscrap Oct 2013 #304

The biggest problem is how to define liberal. Agnosticsherbet Oct 2013 #309

Liberal centrist parties: muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #333

You forgot trolls in your TOS exclusion list. Rex Oct 2013 #355

Graphic!!! the face of illegal abortion Photo is blanked out NSFW pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #383

Damn nice to know that even here on DU anti-choicers can keep advocating their views. idwiyo Oct 2013 #387

I know. I'm livid. pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #394

She, and everyone who thinks anti-choicers have a right to be here are hypocrites. idwiyo Oct 2013 #397

Well, she should have thought of the possibilities when she chose to have sex!!!1111 uppityperson Oct 2013 #398

IKR? Does she even care Gerri Santoros sister is on here? pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #400

I don't think she's knows or cares. uppityperson Oct 2013 #407

You weren't even rude to her! pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #409

You are right. She/he does not belong here. DURHAM D Oct 2013 #419

What do we do? pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #496

Unless Admin kicks that anti-abortionist hypocrite off DU, there is little anyone can do. idwiyo Oct 2013 #499

Is there no one to complain to? pitbullgirl1965 Oct 2013 #503

ATA forum or e-mail directly to admins. I wouldn't bother with a jury. idwiyo Oct 2013 #508

It also excludes RIGHT of center. Conservadems are right of center. nt tblue37 Oct 2013 #385

I thought DU was supportive of ALL Democrats. vaberella Oct 2013 #399

Oddly enough, part of the nature of liberal is that there is no hard definition. IronLionZion Oct 2013 #405

This is an important point. YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #509

Anti-choice people shouldn't be allowed here and they shouldn't be allowed to post their views. Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #414

i have nothing of great importance to add madrchsod Oct 2013 #422

Why are you running up your post count? nt No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #423

It was a dark n stormy knight of replies. Rex Oct 2013 #430

yes it was..... madrchsod Oct 2013 #466

Politically liberal people is functionally defined as supporting Democrats for office. aikoaiko Oct 2013 #476

Its may be your own comprehension skills are that weak. dipsydoodle Oct 2013 #486

An avowed conservative posts disparaging broad-brushes against liberals Vanje Oct 2013 #487

That is my one and only ignore. cui bono Oct 2013 #489

I can't believe it either Vanje Oct 2013 #490

Holy shit! That blog even has the mandatory spelling mistake..so lame. n/t Fix The Stupid Oct 2013 #517

wow. just wow. nt laundry_queen Oct 2013 #518

Tell ya what Egnever Nov 2013 #526