General Discussion

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)

29. I think it is a weak argument

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 03:14 PM

Nov 2013

first of all what is "bigoted"?

Oh, wait, you are talking about the Salvation Army. Which is an organization, and not a "people". I am thinking of the people who continue to support the SA. Are THEY bigotted because they want to help poor people? Should they be "punished" by being called names?

It goes like this

Person X - The Salvation Army should be boycotted because they are homophobic.
Person Y - I support the SA because they help lots of people.
Person X - You are a homophobe.
Person Y - That is funny, and sad.

My question is, does the (perhaps mythical) Person X help his/her cause or hurt it by doing what they do? I would say they hurt it because there is almost no way that Person Y will ever respond with "I am now persuaded to help person X with their cause". They are far more likely to think, and perhaps even say "Wow, this person X sure is a self-righteous a$$hole."

But that's what a lot of people say about me too, so what do I know? It's not like I know how to make friends and influence people.

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So what's so bad about The Salvation Army anyway? [View all] Bennyboy Nov 2013 OP

I'm with you. I don't know. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #1

Here's a snopes article on the matter: NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #2

AK-47s? chopping off the hands of children? Schema Thing Nov 2013 #3

"I'm in for whatever we are currently hating. " A HERETIC I AM Nov 2013 #4

So when is Hate Week? Brigid Nov 2013 #16

Fifth Tuesday in Febuary! n/t Mopar151 Nov 2013 #96

unfortunately hfojvt Nov 2013 #17

goddammit! Schema Thing Nov 2013 #26

You too? FrodosPet Nov 2013 #109

You are correct in that they do not discriminate in who they serve. Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #5

local shelters and food banks are a much more efficient use of charitable resources. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #108

The Salvation Army is local to the communities they serve. Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #123

I give to it, because so much of the money goes straight to those who need it. Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #6

I give to them for 840high Nov 2013 #101

You're all homophobes. JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #7

Lbgtq rights are a fucking joke? Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #12

no, the "joke" is hfojvt Nov 2013 #19

If people aren't punished for being bigoted, then they have no incentive to stop being bigoted el_bryanto Nov 2013 #23

I think it is a weak argument hfojvt Nov 2013 #29

Given that there are plenty of orgs out there to donate to... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #34

except I am donating time hfojvt Nov 2013 #39

I've donated and given time to the Red Cross, and worked/supported local... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #42

+infinity. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #31

Wait...the only incentive to change is punishment??? yawnmaster Nov 2013 #43

It's not the only incentive. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #47

businesses are not human and react differently to "punishment"... yawnmaster Nov 2013 #126

Bryant, think about what you said, and please correct me if I misunderstand... yawnmaster Nov 2013 #45

Well it's not my argument; it's just me trying to understand the argument being applied el_bryanto Nov 2013 #51

you open avenues for acceptable behavior in a society... yawnmaster Nov 2013 #127

Isn't closing avenues for bigots the same as punishing them? or how would it be different? nt el_bryanto Nov 2013 #128

"directing your money elsewhere" isn't exactly punishment. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #76

Ah, the "sufficient purity" meme. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #28

Pointing out homophobia = spewing hatred. Ohhowdull. yardwork Nov 2013 #77

Yep, it's about is big a pile of bullshit as I've ever seen. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #81

it's not about "not putting a quarter in the bucket" hfojvt Nov 2013 #121

the op asked what's so bad about the SA. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #130

No but the behavior of some DUers is. JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #100

I had an SA bell ringer tell me to my face that they didn't want my money because of Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #8

That bell ringer knew what your "lifestyle" is as you dropped your change in the bucket.......how? WillowTree Nov 2013 #102

I was holding hands with my partner at the time. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #103

Nonsense! Gays aren't real people who do things like hold hands! eqfan592 Nov 2013 #104

I know. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #105

Agreed. I've been stunned as of late at the attitudes of some. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #114

DU can find a reason to hate anybody cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #9

purity trolls FatBuddy Nov 2013 #32

It had nothing to do with purity, and everything to do with calling a horse a horse. nt eqfan592 Nov 2013 #35

Yeah, god forbid. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #33

Yeah, when it comes to people having food to eat....so they don't die.... cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #44

Because only the salvation army helps the poor. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #48

God forbid gays get equal treatment. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #50

From what some say, you'd think no such thing existed. nt eqfan592 Nov 2013 #53

I'll give to whomever I want, regardless of internet rumors. Thanks! cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #63

Well bless your heart. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #69

"internet rumors?" eqfan592 Nov 2013 #82

LOL - that's from 2001 cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #115

Lol, that matters not. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #116

it seeks out and fires persons who are found to be LGBT or who advocate for LGBT issues. I can msongs Nov 2013 #10

Perhaps those who get their information do so from sources we would object to. Savannahmann Nov 2013 #11

Beats me... pipi_k Nov 2013 #13

I can tell you why I hate Ayn Rand hfojvt Nov 2013 #20

OK - that's different- because Ayn Rand was a philosopher who communicated her philosophy el_bryanto Nov 2013 #24

People hate her philosophy not her treestar Nov 2013 #67

Back in the early to mid 1990s, I volunteered with a Salvation Army program for street youth Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2013 #14

cool story hfojvt Nov 2013 #21

You were helping. Helping a campaign to aid in discriminatory hiring practices. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #40

You understand that people dealing with other branches have experienced discrimination, right? eqfan592 Nov 2013 #38

By chance do you have a list? FrodosPet Nov 2013 #111

The only national org i give to these days is the red cross. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #112

I have very bifurcated feelings about the Salvation Army etherealtruth Nov 2013 #15

This is the first SA controversy I was aware of. Nine Nov 2013 #18

Like you said, plenty of charities that don't have this level of baggage. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #41

There are some good reasons to be angry with the Salvation Army enki23 Nov 2013 #22

They do have an 82% Charitable Commitment el_bryanto Nov 2013 #25

They don't need to be dishonest (in that way) to be a problem. enki23 Nov 2013 #78

Fair enough el_bryanto Nov 2013 #92

Unlikely, unless they themselves are recipients of said bigotry. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #98

Lots of things. It is not a charity, it is a church and as such is not subject to any oversight. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #27

No issues. Xolodno Nov 2013 #30

Yep, because there are no charities out there that don't have issues with... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #36

Do they discriminate? Yes, they do....but then...so does every religion in some form or way... Xolodno Nov 2013 #49

I do deal with it, by giving to other charities. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #52

Ask me if I care what you think... Xolodno Nov 2013 #55

You ask me if you care, then write three paragraphs. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #59

Glad you responded...from you last post..it seemed you were going to cut and run.... Xolodno Nov 2013 #65

The entire premise of your argument is based on a logical fallacy. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #68

Call it discrimontary all you want... Xolodno Nov 2013 #72

"pure" enough? eqfan592 Nov 2013 #75

Well...if you want to get angry...thats your business... Xolodno Nov 2013 #86

Actually, my response would be "I'm sorry, but my money goes to organizations that support... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #90

So basically... Xolodno Nov 2013 #93

Yep, that's right, fuck the LGBT community for the "greater good." eqfan592 Nov 2013 #95

Then why don't you just toss that money to the needy yourself? Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #57

Honestly, i think it's laziness. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #60

Wow....suddenly donating to causes you don't agree with is "laziness"... Xolodno Nov 2013 #73

Nice straw man argument. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #84

I get attacked for donating from an unapproved charity by you... Xolodno Nov 2013 #87

You're supporting an organization that supports discrimination. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #89

No....you are demanding....don't lie... Xolodno Nov 2013 #91

Yeah, when you start putting words in my mouth, you've officially admitted defeat. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #94

I do. Xolodno Nov 2013 #61

I don't think you need defend yourself for doing good, but the picture you've painted Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #64

I don't see the SA as "secretive"...just usually religious..and maybe thats where we part ways... Xolodno Nov 2013 #71

I look at the SA the same way I look at the Boy Scouts. Xithras Nov 2013 #37

That's really pipi_k Nov 2013 #117

Why would you be ok with some of your donation being used to do harm while some does good? Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #120

Besides the guy from the Salvation Army calling me a jew last year Johonny Nov 2013 #46

Let me ask this: Are_grits_groceries Nov 2013 #54

+1 Starry Messenger Nov 2013 #58

Huge +1. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #62

It seems like it yes lunasun Nov 2013 #83

Thank you. To think that the fight for LGBTIQ equality is sneered by some here as a "purity test" myrna minx Nov 2013 #66

+1 Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #106

I think they do Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #56

I prefer to donate my goods, services and money to organizations that aren't bigoted. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #70

here's a few links to educate you and others xchrom Nov 2013 #74

thank you..... Bennyboy Nov 2013 #79

I'll add the following enki23 Nov 2013 #80

"Purity test" has become code word for "I want it to be OK for me to support people and orgs that... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #85

Thanks Renew Deal Nov 2013 #88

Thank you for posting those links. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #107

I'm mixed on this. One of my great aunts was an S.A. officer. hunter Nov 2013 #97

I don't want anything to do with something that has Liberal In Texas Nov 2013 #99

The Salvation Army fought for hiring discrimination with federal faith based funds. LeftyMom Nov 2013 #110

Those who donated to them helped fund that legal agenda. It is that simple. Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #119

The Christian part is ok, the homophobe part is not - TBF Nov 2013 #113

I understand Scientology does much 'good work' do you give to them as well? KKK community out Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #118

The interesting thing about this thread is the lack of alternatives offered. TheKentuckian Nov 2013 #122

One of the real problems with "alternatives"... Xithras Nov 2013 #124

Why do they not name those at least? I saw only one alternative and that was TheKentuckian Nov 2013 #125

The Salvation Army IS a church. LeftyMom Nov 2013 #132

I almost posted a local alternative, but I didn't because it wouldn't be generally helpful LeftyMom Nov 2013 #131

That is kind of the thing. No doubt the organization is worthy but by definitely they don't have the TheKentuckian Nov 2013 #134

Locally their programs are MUCH wider reaching and more comprehensive than SA. LeftyMom Nov 2013 #135

I visit their Thrift Stores Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #129

They fed my friends husband when he was working a crash site therehegoes Nov 2013 #133