General Discussion

cinnabonbon

(860 posts)

263. When I ask, I mean in the hypotethical sense

Wed Jan 22, 2014, 03:04 PM

Jan 2014

I don't want anyone to actually go around and insult people! So don't worry about that.

But nevertheless, it is a good thought exercise when considering the way words mean different things to different people. You don't have to be afraid, this wasn't some kind of "aha!" trap I laid out in front of you. I simply enjoy breaking words apart and revealing their meanings and roots. They are very interesting to me. And if I learn to avoid terms that are hurtful to my allies on the democratic side, I don't see the harm in that.

It's a shame you're not interested in seeing how words have power over people. But I guess that's something that happens as you age. It stops being fun going outside your comfort zone. Don't worry, it's not for everyone!

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Yes, this is still a racist, sexist, unequal world. [View all] riqster Jan 2014 OP

That image is disgusting. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #1

I'm only one of that list, and it pissed me off big- time. riqster Jan 2014 #2

Your post was alerted on by the word police Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #6

Some people are politically correct TO THE EXTREME. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #13

No, I'm not ok with racism and misogyny. redqueen Jan 2014 #14

Never claimed you were. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #16

The way the post reads (to me) is that the person would be OK with it, IF they Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #28

She seems to be referring to anyone who objects to her using a misogynist slur. redqueen Jan 2014 #36

agreed. as far as you go with it, redqueen. I take it a step farther and wonder about Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #39

Aha... redqueen Jan 2014 #42

in the kindest way possible, I give the poster the benefit of doubt as to misunderstanding Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #46

Then you read it wrong. eom BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #44

For all you know someone was standing off camera with a gun pointed to the woman's head. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #95

What's your position on the feminist Bitch magazine? Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #32

so, you'll be calling African Americans n****rs soon, according to your line of thinking? bettyellen Jan 2014 #47

Didn't want to answer the question, huh? oldhippie Jan 2014 #59

this reply is a dodge, LOL. bettyellen Jan 2014 #63

What are you going on about? Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #73

your incredibly transparent, disingenuous and insincere lines of questions�. bettyellen Jan 2014 #77

Is that a "yes"? You do find the title of the magazine offensive? Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #92

why don't you use racial slurs if some African Americans do, and that is your benchmark? bettyellen Jan 2014 #111

Okay, you are unable to answer the question, and I have better things to do. Bye now. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #119

can't defend your own line of "reasoning", got it. bettyellen Jan 2014 #140

You know, bettyellen, it was a simple question, not an argument. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #177

You know there's a difference between in-group use of slurs KitSileya Jan 2014 #207

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure that's what bettyellen was saying. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #208

I think the point is gollygee Jan 2014 #219

i never said any of that. you took issue to people having a problem with the usage of b*tch here�. bettyellen Jan 2014 #225

I didn't take any issue; I asked a question. And you still haven't answered it... Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #229

Usage of word "in group" is explained well here- but basically -AS A SLUR- it is not good practice, bettyellen Jan 2014 #233

So all women can use the B word then? The Straight Story Jan 2014 #228

I dunno. n/t Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #230

Well, I am sure some authority will tell others what they can use shortly The Straight Story Jan 2014 #231

Usage of word "in group" is explained well here- but basically -AS A SLUR- it is not good practice, bettyellen Jan 2014 #232

So it has uses other than as a slur? And again - what is 'in group' in a liberal group? The Straight Story Jan 2014 #234

the "in group" may use it as a term of affection within that group. so yes- african americans can bettyellen Jan 2014 #235

Still not answering the Q - which women are in 'the group' The Straight Story Jan 2014 #237

it's about USAGE. words are used in different ways�. since you claim this is a new concept to you, bettyellen Jan 2014 #238

And again I have to say that you know there's a difference between an in-group use of a slur. KitSileya Jan 2014 #239

thank you Kit- I don't know where this idea of a group of judges came from, unless it is resentment! bettyellen Jan 2014 #248

it is usage as a slur that is not okay. How many times do you need that explained? bettyellen Jan 2014 #254

What words used as slurs are? The Straight Story Jan 2014 #268

I'm not taking your stupid quiz, LOL. Never said anyone can use slurs- what part of "ingroup usage" bettyellen Jan 2014 #271

It is a conceptual discussion The Straight Story Jan 2014 #272

no, it is definitely and transparently angling for permission to use slurs. bettyellen Jan 2014 #273

"Some folks think the use of n****r by white men, at all, is wrong - but not by African bettyellen Jan 2014 #275

So only people you can see as being black can? The Straight Story Jan 2014 #277

such an impassioned plea for permission to use vile racial slurs without being judged for it�. bettyellen Jan 2014 #281

"permission" is that yours to give other humans now? The Straight Story Jan 2014 #283

So sad to see you preaching the same hate filled notions about "uppity" people causing racial strife bettyellen Jan 2014 #290

oh look, here is someone who agrees with you bettyellen Jan 2014 #278

So, in other words, the best you have is trying to insult. As usual The Straight Story Jan 2014 #279

i just posted you a video of someone making identical arguments to your own�. bettyellen Jan 2014 #280

People will fear using the word "n*****r" - and you don't think that is a GOOD thing? Noted. bettyellen Jan 2014 #293

I imagine there are many people who believe that feminism is simply one block of demographic... LanternWaste Jan 2014 #68

And I imagine some people are pretty full of themselves. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #76

this, thank you�. bettyellen Jan 2014 #85

Well that is just a stupid question. morningfog Jan 2014 #243

It is OT shit stirring of the lowest order. Looking for loopholes so white men can get their bettyellen Jan 2014 #249

Reclaiming a slur: cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #250

Here is another way to explain it: riqster Jan 2014 #252

I love it! cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #253

Made audiences squirm, that it did. riqster Jan 2014 #255

Conversations like that are so necessary cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #259

Two good starts: riqster Jan 2014 #264

You're the best. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #265

Enjoy. riqster Jan 2014 #266

Intent. Some people claim they cannot ever discern intent, LOL. They blather on and on and on�.. bettyellen Jan 2014 #291

oh the RW "PC" meme + "you know you love it, b*tches" all in one post. Lovely. bettyellen Jan 2014 #26

and that three DUers do not recognize it therefore, condone it. Much education is needed. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #30

It's DU war over the word Sissyk Jan 2014 #158

I wonder how many wars it took over the word 'retarded' before people stopped thinking it was ok. redqueen Jan 2014 #176

I don't know. It's never been accepted since I've been here. Sissyk Jan 2014 #178

It used to be considered acceptable. Just like it was in general society. redqueen Jan 2014 #182

Well, I just did a search for the word retarded Sissyk Jan 2014 #185

Well that's sad that juries are leaving it, but sadder still, it is not surprising. redqueen Jan 2014 #188

Thank you, also. Sissyk Jan 2014 #191

Same here. She is posing on it as if she's fine with it. redqueen Jan 2014 #193

Well.... Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #184

Thanks! Sissyk Jan 2014 #186

On reflection, I agree, the word should be removed. riqster Jan 2014 #18

I find BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #53

I think you are confused: riqster Jan 2014 #60

Nope. Not confused. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #64

It is not used primarily against women. riqster Jan 2014 #69

Neither is the B word. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #98

And your response to "twit"? riqster Jan 2014 #109

That is among the most disingenuous shit I've read. morningfog Jan 2014 #244

On reflection, I think some folk just love to bitch Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #67

This is news to you? BainsBane Jan 2014 #129

Would you please delete the misogynist slur from your post? nt redqueen Jan 2014 #8

It's already been alerted on and FAILED to be removed. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #15

It *is* a misogynist slur. redqueen Jan 2014 #17

No, it's NOT. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #19

Enjoy living in denial. redqueen Jan 2014 #22

How is the word "bitch" a misogynistic slur in this instance? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #33

Re-write the dictionary? oldhippie Jan 2014 #38

No need to rewrite it. It is already there. That you choose to willfully misunderstand it is indeed Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #41

Yes Ma'am! oldhippie Jan 2014 #45

much better ... Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #48

Bitchin' response, dude! Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #43

I see what you did there! ..... oldhippie Jan 2014 #49

Yes, over time words can evolve, sometimes to end up meaning the exact opposite. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #70

Great links. Thanks TA Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #123

did you get lost on the way to an unmoderated board or something? bettyellen Jan 2014 #62

I still chuckle when I remember the time in Meta when Skinner suggested that female DUers Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #99

Ewwww, why would Skinner suggest we PM people who offend us, instead of discussing it openly? bettyellen Jan 2014 #105

Honestly, bettyellen, if you ask me, I find the whole notion of DU3 ... bizarre. As usual Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #108

Buddy? oldhippie Jan 2014 #104

too bad for you, words have actual meanings. so take it how you want to, and it still means bettyellen Jan 2014 #132

Look cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #75

Indeed, it's not acceptable for people to compare women to animals, for not agreeing with them Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #93

I can't speak for anyone but myself, of course. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #107

not a question. A statement that certain things ought to be recognized as unacceptable on DU. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #110

It would be very nice if gendered and racist language cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #118

Yes, I agree. I think there are a couple of overdue apologies, there. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #127

. one_voice Jan 2014 #112

I love it when people keep up with me. thank you ... #1 Fan. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #126

I'm sure you must be very proud. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #128

just for YOU because you are so very speical to me. I will address one LAST time the post you linked Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #133

You know, a simple "I'm sorry, I was wrong" would probably cut it. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #136

Where did you mention anything about her 'daughter?' polly7 Jan 2014 #137

The only thing I can think of is this post. RiffRandell Jan 2014 #210

That was a sweet thread (except for the usual knee-jerk, holier-than-thou crap). polly7 Jan 2014 #211

Thank you; she's a gem. RiffRandell Jan 2014 #213

She sounds like a thoughtful, intelligent and caring little girl ... polly7 Jan 2014 #216

What does my daughter have to do with this? RiffRandell Jan 2014 #146

So 'like a bitch' would be okay? Violet_Crumble Jan 2014 #240

Excellent post. RiffRandell Jan 2014 #241

Thanks. And thanks for the tip about Sirius... Violet_Crumble Jan 2014 #242

Sorry, but I totally disagree. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #135

I just figured I'd tell you cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #143

OK, I take your point about calling a woman a bitch with no qualifier Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #183

You can't be serious. You don't see the sexism in 'SOB'? redqueen Jan 2014 #187

Wrong! Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #192

That was insightful ..... oldhippie Jan 2014 #202

But what cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #256

I never said it was .... oldhippie Jan 2014 #257

so you think SOB is praise? cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #258

Nope. The issue wasn't ...... oldhippie Jan 2014 #260

In that case cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #261

No oldhippie Jan 2014 #262

When I ask, I mean in the hypotethical sense cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #263

Thanks for seeing my point! cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #247

Thanks for your thoughtful and insightful post. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #267

Good to see that you're open to discussion! cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #269

Thanks again. I think we're on the same page. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #270

That's great to hear! cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #274

+1 get the red out Jan 2014 #81

check the dictionary BainsBane Jan 2014 #141

Being female does not make one automatically a feminist. athena Jan 2014 #27

it sure as hell doesn't. not sure why a jury leaves a slur like that up... bettyellen Jan 2014 #31

Never said I was a feminist. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #40

That is because twit has no gender connotation Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #52

I think the poster might want to buy a vowel. JTFrog Jan 2014 #80

GMTA .... oh lordie .... LMAO over here ... because that was my first thought as well. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #83

twit is genderless, meaning not rooted in anything gendered. b*tch is a slur used against women. bettyellen Jan 2014 #54

Sure, it is. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #87

then prove it- find any ONE scholar or ONE blog claiming twit is a sexist term. One. bettyellen Jan 2014 #100

New Yorker, July 2012: "Mitt the Twit" WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2014 #223

Gonna have to disagree with you here... one_voice Jan 2014 #121

You think using 'b*tch' as an insult is fine, but 'twit' is a misogynist slur? redqueen Jan 2014 #55

yeah, I'm thinking this is bullshit too. bettyellen Jan 2014 #72

What you posted was not in any way empowering. athena Jan 2014 #79

+1,000,000,000 redqueen Jan 2014 #91

^^^ AWESOME POST ^^^ Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #106

FWIW, I've always considered myself a feminist Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #165

She's using a bigoted slur and getting called on it. That is not being "bullied". redqueen Jan 2014 #179

Yes I do. Are men not allowed to consider themselves feminists? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #189

I don't consider bigoted slurs to be "petty bullshit". nt redqueen Jan 2014 #190

Neither do I. Are you accusing someone here of that? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #194

post #1 absolutely used it as a slur. it absolute is sexist. bettyellen Jan 2014 #236

it's "a big turn off" to hear sexist slurs are not okay? Cry me a river, LOL. bettyellen Jan 2014 #226

using sexist slurs on a progressive website is also disgusting, btw. bettyellen Jan 2014 #12

Good thing I didn't, huh? BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #20

the * doesn't get you off the hook for slurring women with that word. your intent is clear. bettyellen Jan 2014 #23

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #34

tossing out slurs is problematic on a progressive board, so "expressing opinions" using slurs bettyellen Jan 2014 #37

If that's true, BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #50

Twits is a genderless insult, so�.no, it is not inherently misogynistic. HTH! bettyellen Jan 2014 #56

And yet it's used exclusively against women BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #61

i have seen just as many men called twits, maybe more so. pls find cites where it is considered a bettyellen Jan 2014 #65

Look up "twit" in a dictionary. riqster Jan 2014 #66

That just ain't true. Throd Jan 2014 #89

it's complete nonsense. bettyellen Jan 2014 #114

I think you're mixing "twit" up with a different word gollygee Jan 2014 #115

You'll appreciate the irony of the use of the filthiest word I've ever heard to describe a woman msanthrope Jan 2014 #198

Bullshit, you did and you know it. morningfog Jan 2014 #245

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author Hutzpa Jan 2014 #58

Please delete the misogynist slurs from your post. nt redqueen Jan 2014 #82

This is exactly what the jury had to say: In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #120

Three ignorant jurors there. morningfog Jan 2014 #246

That is fucking appalling. MadrasT Jan 2014 #3

That image is only partially the truth Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #4

Did you know that this picture had already been posted here in GD? cali Jan 2014 #5

I hadn't seen it. And it's beyond disgusting. But I'm not sure that the OP should delete it. Nye Bevan Jan 2014 #7

I don't disagree but there's a long thread with this photo and I don't see the need cali Jan 2014 #9

Perhaps the OP should insert an "offensively racist photo" warning in the subject line Nye Bevan Jan 2014 #10

Due to ignore lists some people won't see the other post (or this one) The Straight Story Jan 2014 #51

Porn is encroaching into other forms of media. Racism has been deemed acceptable in porn. redqueen Jan 2014 #11

I suspect athena Jan 2014 #24

I suspect that you're 100% correct. redqueen Jan 2014 #29

Your wish has been granted! athena Jan 2014 #101

This chair has nothing to do with porn. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #57

If you don't think this chair is related to porn, MadrasT Jan 2014 #97

Isn't that the goal? ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #276

"oppresses anyone who is not rich, white, and male" hfojvt Jan 2014 #21

I suppose the sexism is too subtle for some people to notice. athena Jan 2014 #25

Yes, it's disgusting, but maybe that's the point of it as art? mainer Jan 2014 #71

Well, their reaction speaks volumes. riqster Jan 2014 #74

The chair is made by a Norwegian artist. Here's their followup comment mainer Jan 2014 #78

A lot of art is specifically disturbing to make a point. Throd Jan 2014 #84

I'm thinking specifically of "Piss Christ" mainer Jan 2014 #86

So they should have done it differently and better. riqster Jan 2014 #88

link to the quote mainer Jan 2014 #94

Thanks! riqster Jan 2014 #102

I'd be pretty upset, too, to see that it had been used in a way that portrayed the photo polly7 Jan 2014 #103

It's a recreation of original work by Allen Jones. The original subjects were white women and it seaglass Jan 2014 #90

Ah, thank you. WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2014 #113

Yeah thank goodness for google and wiki - I wonder what just dropped out of my brain because I seaglass Jan 2014 #116

LOL Well, it did help me with overall context. WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2014 #125

As a work of "art," it did its job, didn't it? mainer Jan 2014 #96

the artist not only employed racism. The sexism is very evident, too. -- Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #122

I don't think that it should get a free pass just because it's "art." athena Jan 2014 #138

Intent is everything. mainer Jan 2014 #142

No, the consequence is everything. athena Jan 2014 #144

I am a nonwhite female. mainer Jan 2014 #147

There we go again. athena Jan 2014 #152

You accused me of lining up with male artists against women mainer Jan 2014 #155

Not cool to post lies. athena Jan 2014 #162

Well, I can't show you a photo of myself mainer Jan 2014 #166

If you are a non-white female athena Jan 2014 #168

Alas, poor civility, I knew you well. mainer Jan 2014 #171

Have it your way. athena Jan 2014 #172

Not cool to call other posters liars without a shred of evidence. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #174

Yep ..... oldhippie Jan 2014 #180

DU also has a lot of women who proudly claim themselves feminists and can't polly7 Jan 2014 #156

What makes you think I was referring to you? athena Jan 2014 #161

I didn't say who you were referring to, just as you didn't. polly7 Jan 2014 #163

Just look further up the thread. athena Jan 2014 #164

This proves the poster is female and 'proudly misogynistic'? polly7 Jan 2014 #169

So it's totally non-misogynistic to use misogynistic slurs against women? athena Jan 2014 #170

Did I say anyone was out of line for objecting? polly7 Jan 2014 #173

And there we go again. Sorry, Mainer. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #159

Yeah, and they're even telling me I'm white! mainer Jan 2014 #167

A work of art should speak for itself, though. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #251

The responses to the OP are fascinating mainer Jan 2014 #117

Agreed. WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2014 #124

+1000 CFLDem Jan 2014 #131

Could you expand on this please? redqueen Jan 2014 #134

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but there's a tussle up above mainer Jan 2014 #139

A different interpretation isn't necessarily a misinterpretation. :) redqueen Jan 2014 #149

What I'm struck by is which button gets pushed mainer Jan 2014 #151

I'm not sure that's the case, though. redqueen Jan 2014 #157

The opposite perspective is just as valid. athena Jan 2014 #160

"But me, I expected it to happen. I knew he'd lost control... Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #218

Thought exercise: if the artist were a black female... mainer Jan 2014 #130

When an artist creates a controversial work, they are responsible for its reception. riqster Jan 2014 #145

The artist has no control over how you see with YOUR eyes. mainer Jan 2014 #148

And when the artist fails to explain, then they must accept what verbal responses they receive. riqster Jan 2014 #150

Well, yeah. That's what critics dish out. mainer Jan 2014 #153

Oh yeah. I've got a few such scars myself. riqster Jan 2014 #154

The artist was not the one saying it was misunderstood and taken out of context. The artist has not seaglass Jan 2014 #175

Which artist? riqster Jan 2014 #181

The copycat artist who created the chair. n/t seaglass Jan 2014 #195

Ah. The artist I referenced was the model/ editor riqster Jan 2014 #196

Looks like no one wants to take responsibility for this one. Next thing you know she'll seaglass Jan 2014 #197

"Success has a million parents, but failure is an orphan." riqster Jan 2014 #199

No one's actually answered this question yet. No takers? mainer Jan 2014 #200

I will give you my opinion... one_voice Jan 2014 #201

If the races were reversed -- black woman on top of white woman mainer Jan 2014 #203

Interesting point... one_voice Jan 2014 #204

Any way you look at it, one human being atop another... mainer Jan 2014 #205

Yes I think you're right... one_voice Jan 2014 #212

Useless speculation masquerading as thoughtful commentary. athena Jan 2014 #206

Yes, far more noble to be angry and shut off any discussion mainer Jan 2014 #209

Have you ever heard of punctuation rules? athena Jan 2014 #214

Repeatedly ignored which comments? mainer Jan 2014 #215

I don't recall you disagreeing with anything I posted. athena Jan 2014 #221

Your posts go on and on. I pointed to the quotation marks mainer Jan 2014 #227

Pretty damn fucked up. AverageJoe90 Jan 2014 #217

For what it's worth ... polly7 Jan 2014 #220

Well, alright then, I guess I was wrong. AverageJoe90 Jan 2014 #222

She was educated in America, so ignorance is not an option. riqster Jan 2014 #224

This message was self-deleted by its author mainer Jan 2014 #282

The chair was not the work in question. riqster Jan 2014 #284

The art critic was writing about the hullabaloo involving Zhukova mainer Jan 2014 #285

Pertinent, yes. riqster Jan 2014 #286

So I shouldn't have posted it, then? mainer Jan 2014 #287

I said no such thing. riqster Jan 2014 #288

I merely posted an art critic's piece from The Guardian newspaper. mainer Jan 2014 #289

Projection only works if there is a suitable reflective surface for the projector. riqster Jan 2014 #292