Fuck.

[joshcryer]

589. I appreciate the edit.

I takes courage to admit an argumentative error.

I also appreciate the effect a "shame on you" has in argument, as it is a powerful phrase to use.

However, and this is a big one, if anyone had only googled the username in question and "suicide" you'd know they mentioned it before, in a very emotional thread, at that (Google "sheshe2 suicide brother&quot . The empathetic amongst us would have done that before trying to "inform" someone of military suicides. The rather tactless, rather "tiny Internet games" amongst us wouldn't give a shit before making such a post. They just do it to hurt, to cause pain, to be completely unsympathetic toward other human beings. They wouldn't care.

I find it extremely condescending to ask another DUer, people who I consider highly informed, whether they are "informed about troop suicide." I think, especially for a DUer, to ask such a question is extremely risky, as a point of argument, because we are all informed and there's a strong likelihood we're personally affected. I myself might have been affected (personal information, but my brother almost did the same; literally moments away from it until someone intervened; the odds of that are not high, the MIC has inundated the lives of almost every American, there is just a high likelihood of a DUer being affected by this reprehensible side effect of war; which, btw, was Obama's most strident point).

"Offering condolences" is irrelevant to me, people react differently to situations, but if you're in an anonymous Internet argument, you better be prepared for the response, and if you're trying to trigger people by pulling out a very serious issue such as troop suicide, you better be apologetic if you pushed the wrong buttons. It's really simple ethics. What kind of person would do that? Who could defend that under the auspices of "that's not what we were talking about"? It is insane. I seriously would never expect this behavior in a real life conversation. That's how I frame all Internet discussion. "Would I say that over a cup of coffee face to face with someone?" Most people wouldn't. They'd know the limitations of civil discussion.

If someone said their brother killed themselves in conversation to me in real life as I used "troop suicide" as an argument, I would be mortified. I would literally slink away apologetically and just end the argument right the fuck there. There's no way I would defend myself. I would pray, I would beg for forgiveness. That would be something so far out of cultural and ethical norms for me I would probably take it to my grave as an ultimate regret. It just isn't something you shrug off in real life.

This is why I don't use "troop suicide" as an arguing point here, because I don't post as an anonymous coward, and I own everything I say. I find the effects of the MIC, including troop suicide abhorrent (we should not forget rape within the military). But as an arguing point? As a refutation to someone here? That would be abhorrent to me. Inconceivable. Someone may be affected by it. I could never use it in that manner.