General Discussion

tomg

(2,574 posts)

189. Out of curiosity,

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 08:49 PM

Feb 2014

what do you mean by "Full on straight up Socialism."? Are you equating it with "communism"?.
As to your second point: clearly, FDR was not a socialist. As you probably know, in some quarters he is considered the person who saved capitalism in the United States ( personally, I don't agree with that assessment. In the mid-1930s Fascism could have won that little wing ding in the United States as much as a "People's Republic.&quot .

"Full on straight up Socialism" - if by that you mean some form of communism - it clearly has problems. That is a real, "thanks, Captain obvious." I don't assume you mean that. Iwould not insult you by thinking you are equating "Full on straight up Socialism" with communism. But if you mean, say, a form of Democratic Socialism ( by way of any number of folks, but i'll toss out my guide Michael Harrington) - aside from the fact that most Americans won't vote for it ( do I have to go into misinformation since Hay market?) - what are the problems with it?

Seriously, what do you see as the problems with a modified form of democratic socialism?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

303 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

"Seattle's Socialist City Councilor Offers Radical Response to Obama Speech" [View all] grahamhgreen Jan 2014 OP

And we'll ALL lose of the left is not accomodated, welcomed, and heeded Scootaloo Jan 2014 #1

+1 warrant46 Jan 2014 #8

With 4 Republican Responses liberalmike27 Feb 2014 #112

With the exception of the call for a workers' party......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #131

I always say that ... aggiesal Feb 2014 #62

'Even on DU'. You know what? Maybe this is what was needed. While we all thought we had sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #71

The trouble I see is false progressives Scootaloo Feb 2014 #75

Good post, Scootaloo, and a perfect description of DU. LuvNewcastle Feb 2014 #89

Nice post. Sadly DU hasn't been a liberal site for quite some time. A Simple Game Feb 2014 #100

Did it get a name change to Liberal Underground? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #269

I shouldn't have to do this, please read the mission statement from the about section. A Simple Game Feb 2014 #282

Exelellent post. Then the left will probably have to get organized. Sometimes it takes a while sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #107

do it then....all talk and no action... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #270

Very well put LiberalLovinLug Feb 2014 #145

Well said.. sendero Feb 2014 #302

Wow..... this post deserves its own OP Ichingcarpenter Feb 2014 #187

Love this too!! Phlem Feb 2014 #195

Hillary Clinton called herself Progressive before you called yourself that.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #271

Not hard, I don't call myself progressive Scootaloo Feb 2014 #275

Great post. nt woo me with science Feb 2014 #299

So the Democrats are now completely Socialist...not Socialist Democrats...but just full on VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #77

Nope they're not......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #111

She is a full on Socialist...that is what she identifies at... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #168

Why yes, yes she does...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #178

Never.but I also do not see the Democrat'ic' (because the purity trolls found my typo disconcerting) VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #181

The Pendulum Only Goes One Direction AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #185

Did you just call it the 'Democrat' Party? That was a typo, right? navarth Feb 2014 #196

I was thinking the same thing. WTF?? kath Feb 2014 #198

yes it was a typo... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #218

The veil is pulled back a little bit every day... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #204

It's like I need a scorecard anymore navarth Feb 2014 #210

There's a handful here to shit-stir, but they're pretty obvious. SMC22307 Feb 2014 #213

Years ago, a DUer introduced the word "distractivist" 1000words Feb 2014 #214

I have a phrase too... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #220

Heh, that's perfect. SMC22307 Feb 2014 #227

Yeah there sure are...aren't there mr SMC? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #221

it was a typo...get over yourself sheesh VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #223

huh? navarth Feb 2014 #266

and I replied....trying to "discover" something based on 2 letters is a bit of VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #267

I'm not trying to "discover" anything navarth Feb 2014 #268

I found it to be condescending....so there you go... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #272

I was responding to SMC22307. navarth Feb 2014 #277

Yeah well you said that ...you know in public where I could see it....not in a private message.. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #278

Obvious to you maybe navarth Feb 2014 #283

obvious to anyone... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #284

Okay you win. navarth Feb 2014 #285

thanks...I think I will! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #286

I have no veil...I made a typo... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #219

I have yet to see you express anything liberal. You're a supporter of the President's. cali Feb 2014 #258

Then you are just not paying any attention... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #287

typo VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #217

Yes, well you've been pretty clear about not believing that the 'democrat' party sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #234

Bullshit... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #256

Calling for a workers' takeover of Boeing factories is center-right reformism? DireStrike Feb 2014 #170

As I recall, she didn't really have that as a part of her electoral platform....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #176

Fair enough. DireStrike Feb 2014 #180

We in Workers Power use centrist all the time to describe groups....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #194

Let's be honest ... 1000words Feb 2014 #229

And why does a new quasi-revolutionary socialist movement need any of the taint of old-school nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #250

Because it HASN'T been "tried and failed"......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #251

Okay, I get that you're not advocating Soviet-style Communism (or faux-Communism, more like). nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #280

Yeah kjones Feb 2014 #115

Hmm ... Laelth Feb 2014 #128

That's why the bourgeois "liberal" parties will support fascism....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #130

baloney! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #169

Out of curiosity, tomg Feb 2014 #189

No I am not confusing them...I know the difference...and by the way VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #215

FDR was trying to save capitalism by his socialistic reforms, but........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #197

YES socialistic reforms.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #216

And I explained in another post in this thread what Lenin and Trotsky meant...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #222

but the fact remains.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #224

So go ahead and reinvent the wheel....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #226

but I am not a Capitalist... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #228

Sounds like you are a social democrat, and not a democratic socialist. DireStrike Feb 2014 #237

I accept my Social Security AND Medicare....therefore I...like every other American that does VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #255

Kind of a broad definition of a "socialist" you've got there....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #263

Like Capitalism you mean, the system we are now surviving under? sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #235

Exactly. As I said before, our current hyper-capitalism is just as much as failure as Soviet nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #281

It's dumb. Socialists aren't Democrats treestar Feb 2014 #125

So if the Dems turn in this direction........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #127

No, because then there would be some chance treestar Feb 2014 #138

IF, by your last paragraph, you mean....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #146

Couldn't agree more. The best thing tomg Feb 2014 #177

But a lot of Democrats are Socialists. progressoid Feb 2014 #159

You know, this reminds me of Venn tomg Feb 2014 #186

Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #139

Good post 1000words Feb 2014 #78

Yesterday on CNN I heard the Prez say once again how he wants to work with the repubs. CrispyQ Feb 2014 #93

We have to work with Repubs treestar Feb 2014 #124

Not yet. socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #147

At present, Socialists and others on the Left have no power Maedhros Feb 2014 #148

We keep voting for? treestar Feb 2014 #259

Voting AGAINST the Republicans hasn't done me any good. Maedhros Feb 2014 #274

And so we keep drifting farther and farther to the Right. RC Feb 2014 #231

have you seen those polls hfojvt Feb 2014 #104

That's the point, isn't it? They don't want a party that's more Conservative. sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #106

That's a fair question, IMO....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #113

but if there are that many people (potential voters) hfojvt Feb 2014 #137

The easiest way to explain it....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #149

About Half of that 60% Want Whatever the Tee Vee or the Preacherman Tells them to Want AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #200

Disagree slightly. I think it's about a third of that 60%..... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #206

At least 40% MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #296

^^^^Love This!^^^^ Phlem Feb 2014 #192

no, we will all lose hfojvt Feb 2014 #103

How is that? treestar Feb 2014 #121

She served up table full of truth. JRLeft Jan 2014 #2

I had been wondering if I should look into the Green Party, but she definitely makes me want to liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #3

This is the same woman who is accepting only 40K of her salary 1000words Jan 2014 #4

hmmm, I don't see her name anywhere in the OP, so this is Kshama Sawant... mike_c Jan 2014 #5

What a bunch of unsubstantiated bullshit! Reminds me of Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #6

Spend a lot of time at FreeRepublic, do you? Scootaloo Jan 2014 #11

You don't have to to notice the similarity. Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #23

Right, because FR wants $15/hr minimum wage, lol. NOTHING like FR. In fact, grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #27

Now, now ... it's possible to confuse a socialist with a teabagger. 1000words Jan 2014 #31

Well they're both fed up with the status quo........ socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #38

It's funny ... 1000words Jan 2014 #40

Actually, I think one WOULD need the level of brain damage FR causes to think that Scootaloo Jan 2014 #33

It's alright, Freepers can't tell the difference between socialism and fascism either. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #41

So I suppose all the wrong "facts" in the post don't matter! Maraya1969 Feb 2014 #86

So how on earth does something that calls for a 15/hr minimum wage, NuclearDem Feb 2014 #92

Please explain the similarities, or admit that your post is the unsubstantiated bullshit. last1standing Feb 2014 #60

unsubstantiated bullshit? Armstead Feb 2014 #67

Sure because Freepers want "$15 minimum wage, taxing the super-rich to pay for mass transit cui bono Feb 2014 #84

The 1960 Democratic Party Platform in no way reminds me of Free Republic. DhhD Feb 2014 #97

EXACTLY! As I said above........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #116

Please show as unsubstantial each point in the letter, or fail. nt ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2014 #155

I guess it be "fail". nt Curmudgeoness Feb 2014 #175

K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #7

For example..... Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #9

You're not taken seriously by me ... 1000words Jan 2014 #15

So why bother with you post? Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #29

Perhaps You Haven't Noticed Yet, But ChiciB1 Feb 2014 #73

Thanks for sharing 1000words Feb 2014 #76

That's my general philosophy for ALL internet sites......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #95

George W. Obama OnyxCollie Jan 2014 #19

The US is a global leader in solar. It has decreased its Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #28

True Believer. nt OnyxCollie Jan 2014 #39

Global leader in solar? Where do you get this stuff? El_Johns Feb 2014 #56

Bulgaria? ... We're not better than Bulgaria? 1000words Feb 2014 #79

Don't expect a response. The cheer squad only reads WH press releases, and they never, ever Marr Feb 2014 #101

We're beating Portugal so I guess that makes us a world leader? progressoid Feb 2014 #161

i agree with you. What President has ever done everything you wanted him to do? With the kind of kelliekat44 Jan 2014 #20

I'm shocked! 1000words Jan 2014 #21

Who obstructed the President in years one and two? gLibDem Jan 2014 #24

Geeze he has. Look at some of my posts on this thread! Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #30

Democrats had the House and the Senate gLibDem Jan 2014 #35

Many Democrats in Congress are DINOs, Blue Dogs, so ... Amonester Feb 2014 #72

No. But I think it important that we realize what kind of Ds we elect. gLibDem Feb 2014 #80

He Never Had a Bully Pulpit AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #96

If the President had barnstormed the country, gLibDem Feb 2014 #98

Exactly. Kermitt Gribble Feb 2014 #143

And as one of the great orators of our day, President Obama would have succeeded. gLibDem Feb 2014 #154

The fact that he didn't even try is the problem. Maedhros Feb 2014 #261

Absolutely correct. gLibDem Feb 2014 #265

It certainly put to rest the question of which constituency Obama represents - Maedhros Feb 2014 #273

"Thanks Obama for these too" (RE:BLue Dogs and DINOs) bvar22 Feb 2014 #171

A thorough indictment 1000words Feb 2014 #172

It was ignored when it was going on, so I suspect....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #199

Bravo. Phlem Feb 2014 #201

Obama had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for only 24 working days. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #158

Oh stop! gLibDem Feb 2014 #182

Dems never employed the filibuster in the unprecedented way the GOP did starting in 2009. nt SunSeeker Feb 2014 #183

And who's fault is that? Who controls the filibuster rules? gLibDem Feb 2014 #190

By the time it became clear the GOP was blocking EVERYTHING, it was 2010. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #202

I'm sorry, but that's just bullshit....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #208

During the first 6 months was when we had that 24 days of the filibuster proof majority. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #211

Then how did DU get on the obstruction meeting...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #225

Furthermore, even if they hadn't openly stated it ... 1000words Feb 2014 #212

The Senate's formal rules can only be changed at the start of a two-year Congress. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #241

From Yes We Can to No We Can't. gLibDem Feb 2014 #230

Changing strategy is not the same as saying "No We Can't." SunSeeker Feb 2014 #233

No it doesn't. gLibDem Feb 2014 #238

I think the new minimum wage increase push is a good, FDR-style strategy, don't you? nt SunSeeker Feb 2014 #242

FDR took bold steps ... 1000words Feb 2014 #243

FDR had huge majorities in both houses of Congress. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #244

Which sort of undermines your own assertion re: strategy 1000words Feb 2014 #246

Yes, I am glad he's doing what he can independent of Congress. gLibDem Feb 2014 #247

May I remind you, all he had to do to end the bush tax cuts was nothing, also, he refused to look at grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #32

That, to me, is his biggest mistake... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #129

Ending the Tax Cuts Would Have Crashed the Economy. Medicare for All Was DOA in the Senate AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #193

Hog wash. RC Feb 2014 #239

It Wasn't Just the 1% Whose Taxes Would Have Gone Up AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #253

You apparently don't understand economics very well. RC Feb 2014 #254

Somebody was paying attention I see...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #262

There is not many people left around here that are not buying into the conventional wisdom. RC Feb 2014 #264

The Could Not Have Used that Money for Anything With the GOP in Control of the House AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #293

The Democrats did not have to go along with the cuts either. RC Feb 2014 #294

Because of the Effect It Would Have on the Economy AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #300

What part of "Tax Cut" are you having a problem with? RC Feb 2014 #301

If You are Trying to Clarify your Position, You are Not Suceeding AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #303

The President is Tinkerbell? JoeyT Feb 2014 #59

got it, kill the messenger bobduca Jan 2014 #22

Absolutely agree. After this rant, I have zero respect for the woman. I still support some of her okaawhatever Jan 2014 #34

You think her ideas and opinions should only appeal to socialists? 1000words Jan 2014 #44

Yeah who can take anyone seriously when they run on "a platform of $15 minimum wage, cui bono Feb 2014 #85

The people doing this are NOT PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #102

That, to me, is an argument dotymed Feb 2014 #141

I call it a "Progressive Workers' Party"...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #150

It's the Democratic Party. Let the Turd Way Blow Dogs gLibDem Feb 2014 #248

The Democrats have NEVER been a worker's party....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #252

I'm not advocating socialism. Neither did FDR. gLibDem Feb 2014 #257

But unregulated capitalism is what you get when you allow capitalism........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #289

What you are really saying as that people who have gLibDem Feb 2014 #290

Then it's time for the people to actually TAKE the power...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #291

This nation can no longer wait for that to happen. dotymed Feb 2014 #279

Unfortunately you can't sign up yet....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #292

The broken website comment ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #142

I would vote for her. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #10

So would I. theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #88

She's just got ODS mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #12

She 1000words Jan 2014 #14

Thanks mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #17

No Prob 1000words Jan 2014 #18

And she's a racist. last1standing Feb 2014 #61

K&R @ 1,000 swilton Jan 2014 #13

Whole lot of truthiness in this one. westerebus Jan 2014 #16

But not truth? gLibDem Jan 2014 #25

Same difference. westerebus Feb 2014 #249

Words fail. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #26

I know Manny Phlem Jan 2014 #46

Your Sawant and our Warren... MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #47

Feel the same way. N/T Titonwan Jan 2014 #50

I hope and pray everyday for the sake of my daughter, family, and friends, that Phlem Jan 2014 #51

What about my Feinstein? DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2014 #64

DUzy candidate. n/t Laelth Feb 2014 #151

Don't forget Bernie! 1000words Feb 2014 #66

Who is ProSense Feb 2014 #69

You. Are. Correct. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #70

Here: ProSense Feb 2014 #68

I agree with much of this. johnnyreb Jan 2014 #36

Kshama Sawant never really loved him!!! QC Jan 2014 #37

I think she's a racist. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #49

Yep, and she's got ODS, too! QC Jan 2014 #52

And she's a Paulite worshipper of Ayn Rand MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #55

I have it on good authority QC Feb 2014 #57

What's her Freeper handle? NuclearDem Feb 2014 #58

I don't know, but I'm sure it has something about QC Feb 2014 #94

she doesn't understand how government works Doctor_J Feb 2014 #90

She thinks he has a magic wand! QC Feb 2014 #91

Dude! Phlem Jan 2014 #53

She is so awesome. Phlem Jan 2014 #42

people are talking of little else around here nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #43

K&R.... daleanime Jan 2014 #45

Thank you so much grahamhgreen. Phlem Jan 2014 #48

That will burn in the ears defacto7 Jan 2014 #54

That ProSense Feb 2014 #63

Of course! Phlem Feb 2014 #162

Actually, ProSense Feb 2014 #164

Of course your right. Phlem Feb 2014 #166

Yes, ProSense Feb 2014 #167

Oh Damn it I forgot my blue links too. Sorry, here you go. Phlem Feb 2014 #174

Vermont's exchange is 100 percent federally funded. Here ProSense Feb 2014 #184

Huh, we agree. Phlem Feb 2014 #188

K&R ReRe Feb 2014 #65

Although there are a lot of "Thanks Oba_ma" falsities in her rant, she should try to run nationally Amonester Feb 2014 #74

Nationally? MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #297

Wow. woo me with science Feb 2014 #81

*clap clap clap* quinnox Feb 2014 #82

I saw the video days ago thanks for the text Ichingcarpenter Feb 2014 #83

The only problem with voting for someone other than a "democrat" in a major election is something Victor_c3 Feb 2014 #87

She never loved him. PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #99

Did you forget the.......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #108

I thought it was obvious. =) PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #110

I don't believe in obvious around here nowdays....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #117

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about... Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2014 #105

I'm going to repeat this one more time because.......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #119

sweet spot DonCoquixote Feb 2014 #157

Well said 1000words Feb 2014 #163

There is a balance point. It's the Leninist-Trotskyist way..... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #205

Yup, that is the damn truth -- Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2014 #160

100% agreed. Phlem Feb 2014 #207

recommend frwrfpos Feb 2014 #109

A little harsh, but still K&R PotatoChip Feb 2014 #114

Hear, hear! k&r n/t Laelth Feb 2014 #118

Kick! woo me with science Feb 2014 #120

The Republicans would lose if they didn't bow down to the Tea Party treestar Feb 2014 #122

The "Tea Party" Has Massive Corporate and Media Backing AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #191

Massive corporate and media backing seems to work to convince the masses treestar Feb 2014 #260

Now THAT's a Mayor. Octafish Feb 2014 #123

Just a slight factual correction.......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #126

Thank you, socialist _n_TN! My mistake. Octafish Feb 2014 #133

Thank you Octafish...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #134

Yeah... Bennyboy Feb 2014 #132

... 840high Feb 2014 #135

K&R LiberalEsto Feb 2014 #136

I supported the Sawant campaign OutNow Feb 2014 #140

I think there may be a perception problem here sadoldgirl Feb 2014 #144

That's what 175 years of capitalist propaganda will get you......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #152

Yep. Even though capitalism isn't mentioned in the constitution, it controls our government. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2014 #153

It's wonderful she can share insights she's gleaned from her long career in government, struggle4progress Feb 2014 #156

The point is about what she said. You agree, or not. djean111 Feb 2014 #203

gettin' under your skin, eh? grasswire Feb 2014 #240

If she wants to organize the working class, let her organize the working class struggle4progress Feb 2014 #245

Could you please change your avatar brentspeak Feb 2014 #288

I have to say this and don't get upset. Autumn Feb 2014 #165

DURec! bvar22 Feb 2014 #173

YES! PigBodine Feb 2014 #179

So Many Are Confused On Socialism colsohlibgal Feb 2014 #209

Most don't know what "socialism" is Lysistrada Feb 2014 #276

kick again frwrfpos Feb 2014 #232

The Socialist Party's platform for education rocks. I just went out and checked it out liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #236

kick woo me with science Feb 2014 #295

Her area in Seattle is in no way MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #298