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socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)

251. Because it HASN'T been "tried and failed".........

Sun Feb 2, 2014, 10:30 AM

Feb 2014

It's never been tried at all, except for a very few months very early after the October Revolution. Then it came under attack by the world capitalist states which directly lead to it's degeneration under Stalin.

And why do you think SAlt is a "new, quasi-revolutionary socialist movement"? SAlt is subjectively Trotskyist. They CALL themselves Trotskyist. I'm just taking them at their word and since my view of Trotskyism is somewhat different than theirs, I think it's important to offer support, but also point out where they DIFFER from what Trotsky himself would have offered. And you don't offer that criticism because of ego. You offer it because some of the things they're saying and wanting to try have BEEN tried and have failed in the past. The main failure is trying to pass off some sort of left reformist platform as a socialist transition.

You're not going to reinvent the wheel. The EXACT SAME CHALLENGES THAT FACED LENIN AND TROTSKY WILL BE EXTANT IN THE USA IF CAPITALISM IS OVERTHROWN! It will include a violent reaction from the capitalists to the expropriation and redistribution of their excessive assets. ANY changeover to socialism will lead to this reaction whether it's done through revolution or reform. We need to learn from the experience of the ones that have attempted the changeover rather than thinking you can do something totally new and different. NOTHING will be totally new and different. The details will change, but the basic challenges will remain the same.

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"Seattle's Socialist City Councilor Offers Radical Response to Obama Speech" [View all] grahamhgreen Jan 2014 OP

And we'll ALL lose of the left is not accomodated, welcomed, and heeded Scootaloo Jan 2014 #1

+1 warrant46 Jan 2014 #8

With 4 Republican Responses liberalmike27 Feb 2014 #112

With the exception of the call for a workers' party......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #131

I always say that ... aggiesal Jan 2014 #62

'Even on DU'. You know what? Maybe this is what was needed. While we all thought we had sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #71

The trouble I see is false progressives Scootaloo Feb 2014 #75

Good post, Scootaloo, and a perfect description of DU. LuvNewcastle Feb 2014 #89

Nice post. Sadly DU hasn't been a liberal site for quite some time. A Simple Game Feb 2014 #100

Did it get a name change to Liberal Underground? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #269

I shouldn't have to do this, please read the mission statement from the about section. A Simple Game Feb 2014 #282

Exelellent post. Then the left will probably have to get organized. Sometimes it takes a while sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #107

do it then....all talk and no action... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #270

Very well put LiberalLovinLug Feb 2014 #145

Well said.. sendero Feb 2014 #302

Wow..... this post deserves its own OP Ichingcarpenter Feb 2014 #187

Love this too!! Phlem Feb 2014 #195

Hillary Clinton called herself Progressive before you called yourself that.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #271

Not hard, I don't call myself progressive Scootaloo Feb 2014 #275

Great post. nt woo me with science Feb 2014 #299

So the Democrats are now completely Socialist...not Socialist Democrats...but just full on VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #77

Nope they're not......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #111

She is a full on Socialist...that is what she identifies at... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #168

Why yes, yes she does...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #178

Never.but I also do not see the Democrat'ic' (because the purity trolls found my typo disconcerting) VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #181

The Pendulum Only Goes One Direction AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #185

Did you just call it the 'Democrat' Party? That was a typo, right? navarth Feb 2014 #196

I was thinking the same thing. WTF?? kath Feb 2014 #198

yes it was a typo... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #218

The veil is pulled back a little bit every day... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #204

It's like I need a scorecard anymore navarth Feb 2014 #210

There's a handful here to shit-stir, but they're pretty obvious. SMC22307 Feb 2014 #213

Years ago, a DUer introduced the word "distractivist" 1000words Feb 2014 #214

I have a phrase too... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #220

Heh, that's perfect. SMC22307 Feb 2014 #227

Yeah there sure are...aren't there mr SMC? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #221

it was a typo...get over yourself sheesh VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #223

huh? navarth Feb 2014 #266

and I replied....trying to "discover" something based on 2 letters is a bit of VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #267

I'm not trying to "discover" anything navarth Feb 2014 #268

I found it to be condescending....so there you go... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #272

I was responding to SMC22307. navarth Feb 2014 #277

Yeah well you said that ...you know in public where I could see it....not in a private message.. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #278

Obvious to you maybe navarth Feb 2014 #283

obvious to anyone... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #284

Okay you win. navarth Feb 2014 #285

thanks...I think I will! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #286

I have no veil...I made a typo... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #219

I have yet to see you express anything liberal. You're a supporter of the President's. cali Feb 2014 #258

Then you are just not paying any attention... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #287

typo VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #217

Yes, well you've been pretty clear about not believing that the 'democrat' party sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #234

Bullshit... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #256

Calling for a workers' takeover of Boeing factories is center-right reformism? DireStrike Feb 2014 #170

As I recall, she didn't really have that as a part of her electoral platform....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #176

Fair enough. DireStrike Feb 2014 #180

We in Workers Power use centrist all the time to describe groups....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #194

Let's be honest ... 1000words Feb 2014 #229

And why does a new quasi-revolutionary socialist movement need any of the taint of old-school nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #250

Because it HASN'T been "tried and failed"......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #251

Okay, I get that you're not advocating Soviet-style Communism (or faux-Communism, more like). nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #280

Yeah kjones Feb 2014 #115

Hmm ... Laelth Feb 2014 #128

That's why the bourgeois "liberal" parties will support fascism....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #130

baloney! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #169

Out of curiosity, tomg Feb 2014 #189

No I am not confusing them...I know the difference...and by the way VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #215

FDR was trying to save capitalism by his socialistic reforms, but........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #197

YES socialistic reforms.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #216

And I explained in another post in this thread what Lenin and Trotsky meant...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #222

but the fact remains.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #224

So go ahead and reinvent the wheel....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #226

but I am not a Capitalist... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #228

Sounds like you are a social democrat, and not a democratic socialist. DireStrike Feb 2014 #237

I accept my Social Security AND Medicare....therefore I...like every other American that does VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #255

Kind of a broad definition of a "socialist" you've got there....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #263

Like Capitalism you mean, the system we are now surviving under? sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #235

Exactly. As I said before, our current hyper-capitalism is just as much as failure as Soviet nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #281

It's dumb. Socialists aren't Democrats treestar Feb 2014 #125

So if the Dems turn in this direction........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #127

No, because then there would be some chance treestar Feb 2014 #138

IF, by your last paragraph, you mean....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #146

Couldn't agree more. The best thing tomg Feb 2014 #177

But a lot of Democrats are Socialists. progressoid Feb 2014 #159

You know, this reminds me of Venn tomg Feb 2014 #186

Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #139

Good post 1000words Feb 2014 #78

Yesterday on CNN I heard the Prez say once again how he wants to work with the repubs. CrispyQ Feb 2014 #93

We have to work with Repubs treestar Feb 2014 #124

Not yet. socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #147

At present, Socialists and others on the Left have no power Maedhros Feb 2014 #148

We keep voting for? treestar Feb 2014 #259

Voting AGAINST the Republicans hasn't done me any good. Maedhros Feb 2014 #274

And so we keep drifting farther and farther to the Right. RC Feb 2014 #231

have you seen those polls hfojvt Feb 2014 #104

That's the point, isn't it? They don't want a party that's more Conservative. sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #106

That's a fair question, IMO....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #113

but if there are that many people (potential voters) hfojvt Feb 2014 #137

The easiest way to explain it....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #149

About Half of that 60% Want Whatever the Tee Vee or the Preacherman Tells them to Want AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #200

Disagree slightly. I think it's about a third of that 60%..... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #206

At least 40% MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #296

^^^^Love This!^^^^ Phlem Feb 2014 #192

no, we will all lose hfojvt Feb 2014 #103

How is that? treestar Feb 2014 #121

She served up table full of truth. JRLeft Jan 2014 #2

I had been wondering if I should look into the Green Party, but she definitely makes me want to liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #3

This is the same woman who is accepting only 40K of her salary 1000words Jan 2014 #4

hmmm, I don't see her name anywhere in the OP, so this is Kshama Sawant... mike_c Jan 2014 #5

What a bunch of unsubstantiated bullshit! Reminds me of Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #6

Spend a lot of time at FreeRepublic, do you? Scootaloo Jan 2014 #11

You don't have to to notice the similarity. Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #23

Right, because FR wants $15/hr minimum wage, lol. NOTHING like FR. In fact, grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #27

Now, now ... it's possible to confuse a socialist with a teabagger. 1000words Jan 2014 #31

Well they're both fed up with the status quo........ socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #38

It's funny ... 1000words Jan 2014 #40

Actually, I think one WOULD need the level of brain damage FR causes to think that Scootaloo Jan 2014 #33

It's alright, Freepers can't tell the difference between socialism and fascism either. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #41

So I suppose all the wrong "facts" in the post don't matter! Maraya1969 Feb 2014 #86

So how on earth does something that calls for a 15/hr minimum wage, NuclearDem Feb 2014 #92

Please explain the similarities, or admit that your post is the unsubstantiated bullshit. last1standing Jan 2014 #60

unsubstantiated bullshit? Armstead Jan 2014 #67

Sure because Freepers want "$15 minimum wage, taxing the super-rich to pay for mass transit cui bono Feb 2014 #84

The 1960 Democratic Party Platform in no way reminds me of Free Republic. DhhD Feb 2014 #97

EXACTLY! As I said above........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #116

Please show as unsubstantial each point in the letter, or fail. nt ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2014 #155

I guess it be "fail". nt Curmudgeoness Feb 2014 #175

K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #7

For example..... Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #9

You're not taken seriously by me ... 1000words Jan 2014 #15

So why bother with you post? Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #29

Perhaps You Haven't Noticed Yet, But ChiciB1 Feb 2014 #73

Thanks for sharing 1000words Feb 2014 #76

That's my general philosophy for ALL internet sites......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #95

George W. Obama OnyxCollie Jan 2014 #19

The US is a global leader in solar. It has decreased its Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #28

True Believer. nt OnyxCollie Jan 2014 #39

Global leader in solar? Where do you get this stuff? El_Johns Jan 2014 #56

Bulgaria? ... We're not better than Bulgaria? 1000words Feb 2014 #79

Don't expect a response. The cheer squad only reads WH press releases, and they never, ever Marr Feb 2014 #101

We're beating Portugal so I guess that makes us a world leader? progressoid Feb 2014 #161

i agree with you. What President has ever done everything you wanted him to do? With the kind of kelliekat44 Jan 2014 #20

I'm shocked! 1000words Jan 2014 #21

Who obstructed the President in years one and two? gLibDem Jan 2014 #24

Geeze he has. Look at some of my posts on this thread! Maraya1969 Jan 2014 #30

Democrats had the House and the Senate gLibDem Jan 2014 #35

Many Democrats in Congress are DINOs, Blue Dogs, so ... Amonester Jan 2014 #72

No. But I think it important that we realize what kind of Ds we elect. gLibDem Feb 2014 #80

He Never Had a Bully Pulpit AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #96

If the President had barnstormed the country, gLibDem Feb 2014 #98

Exactly. Kermitt Gribble Feb 2014 #143

And as one of the great orators of our day, President Obama would have succeeded. gLibDem Feb 2014 #154

The fact that he didn't even try is the problem. Maedhros Feb 2014 #261

Absolutely correct. gLibDem Feb 2014 #265

It certainly put to rest the question of which constituency Obama represents - Maedhros Feb 2014 #273

"Thanks Obama for these too" (RE:BLue Dogs and DINOs) bvar22 Feb 2014 #171

A thorough indictment 1000words Feb 2014 #172

It was ignored when it was going on, so I suspect....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #199

Bravo. Phlem Feb 2014 #201

Obama had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for only 24 working days. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #158

Oh stop! gLibDem Feb 2014 #182

Dems never employed the filibuster in the unprecedented way the GOP did starting in 2009. nt SunSeeker Feb 2014 #183

And who's fault is that? Who controls the filibuster rules? gLibDem Feb 2014 #190

By the time it became clear the GOP was blocking EVERYTHING, it was 2010. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #202

I'm sorry, but that's just bullshit....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #208

During the first 6 months was when we had that 24 days of the filibuster proof majority. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #211

Then how did DU get on the obstruction meeting...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #225

Furthermore, even if they hadn't openly stated it ... 1000words Feb 2014 #212

The Senate's formal rules can only be changed at the start of a two-year Congress. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #241

From Yes We Can to No We Can't. gLibDem Feb 2014 #230

Changing strategy is not the same as saying "No We Can't." SunSeeker Feb 2014 #233

No it doesn't. gLibDem Feb 2014 #238

I think the new minimum wage increase push is a good, FDR-style strategy, don't you? nt SunSeeker Feb 2014 #242

FDR took bold steps ... 1000words Feb 2014 #243

FDR had huge majorities in both houses of Congress. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #244

Which sort of undermines your own assertion re: strategy 1000words Feb 2014 #246

Yes, I am glad he's doing what he can independent of Congress. gLibDem Feb 2014 #247

May I remind you, all he had to do to end the bush tax cuts was nothing, also, he refused to look at grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #32

That, to me, is his biggest mistake... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #129

Ending the Tax Cuts Would Have Crashed the Economy. Medicare for All Was DOA in the Senate AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #193

Hog wash. RC Feb 2014 #239

It Wasn't Just the 1% Whose Taxes Would Have Gone Up AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #253

You apparently don't understand economics very well. RC Feb 2014 #254

Somebody was paying attention I see...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #262

There is not many people left around here that are not buying into the conventional wisdom. RC Feb 2014 #264

The Could Not Have Used that Money for Anything With the GOP in Control of the House AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #293

The Democrats did not have to go along with the cuts either. RC Feb 2014 #294

Because of the Effect It Would Have on the Economy AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #300

What part of "Tax Cut" are you having a problem with? RC Feb 2014 #301

If You are Trying to Clarify your Position, You are Not Suceeding AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #303

The President is Tinkerbell? JoeyT Jan 2014 #59

got it, kill the messenger bobduca Jan 2014 #22

Absolutely agree. After this rant, I have zero respect for the woman. I still support some of her okaawhatever Jan 2014 #34

You think her ideas and opinions should only appeal to socialists? 1000words Jan 2014 #44

Yeah who can take anyone seriously when they run on "a platform of $15 minimum wage, cui bono Feb 2014 #85

The people doing this are NOT PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #102

That, to me, is an argument dotymed Feb 2014 #141

I call it a "Progressive Workers' Party"...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #150

It's the Democratic Party. Let the Turd Way Blow Dogs gLibDem Feb 2014 #248

The Democrats have NEVER been a worker's party....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #252

I'm not advocating socialism. Neither did FDR. gLibDem Feb 2014 #257

But unregulated capitalism is what you get when you allow capitalism........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #289

What you are really saying as that people who have gLibDem Feb 2014 #290

Then it's time for the people to actually TAKE the power...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #291

This nation can no longer wait for that to happen. dotymed Feb 2014 #279

Unfortunately you can't sign up yet....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #292

The broken website comment ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #142

I would vote for her. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #10

So would I. theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #88

She's just got ODS mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #12

She 1000words Jan 2014 #14

Thanks mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #17

No Prob 1000words Jan 2014 #18

And she's a racist. last1standing Jan 2014 #61

K&R @ 1,000 swilton Jan 2014 #13

Whole lot of truthiness in this one. westerebus Jan 2014 #16

But not truth? gLibDem Jan 2014 #25

Same difference. westerebus Feb 2014 #249

Words fail. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #26

I know Manny Phlem Jan 2014 #46

Your Sawant and our Warren... MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #47

Feel the same way. N/T Titonwan Jan 2014 #50

I hope and pray everyday for the sake of my daughter, family, and friends, that Phlem Jan 2014 #51

What about my Feinstein? DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #64

DUzy candidate. n/t Laelth Feb 2014 #151

Don't forget Bernie! 1000words Jan 2014 #66

Who is ProSense Jan 2014 #69

You. Are. Correct. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #70

Here: ProSense Jan 2014 #68

I agree with much of this. johnnyreb Jan 2014 #36

Kshama Sawant never really loved him!!! QC Jan 2014 #37

I think she's a racist. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #49

Yep, and she's got ODS, too! QC Jan 2014 #52

And she's a Paulite worshipper of Ayn Rand MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #55

I have it on good authority QC Jan 2014 #57

What's her Freeper handle? NuclearDem Jan 2014 #58

I don't know, but I'm sure it has something about QC Feb 2014 #94

she doesn't understand how government works Doctor_J Feb 2014 #90

She thinks he has a magic wand! QC Feb 2014 #91

Dude! Phlem Jan 2014 #53

She is so awesome. Phlem Jan 2014 #42

people are talking of little else around here nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #43

K&R.... daleanime Jan 2014 #45

Thank you so much grahamhgreen. Phlem Jan 2014 #48

That will burn in the ears defacto7 Jan 2014 #54

That ProSense Jan 2014 #63

Of course! Phlem Feb 2014 #162

Actually, ProSense Feb 2014 #164

Of course your right. Phlem Feb 2014 #166

Yes, ProSense Feb 2014 #167

Oh Damn it I forgot my blue links too. Sorry, here you go. Phlem Feb 2014 #174

Vermont's exchange is 100 percent federally funded. Here ProSense Feb 2014 #184

Huh, we agree. Phlem Feb 2014 #188

K&R ReRe Jan 2014 #65

Although there are a lot of "Thanks Oba_ma" falsities in her rant, she should try to run nationally Amonester Feb 2014 #74

Nationally? MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #297

Wow. woo me with science Feb 2014 #81

*clap clap clap* quinnox Feb 2014 #82

I saw the video days ago thanks for the text Ichingcarpenter Feb 2014 #83

The only problem with voting for someone other than a "democrat" in a major election is something Victor_c3 Feb 2014 #87

She never loved him. PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #99

Did you forget the.......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #108

I thought it was obvious. =) PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #110

I don't believe in obvious around here nowdays....... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #117

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about... Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2014 #105

I'm going to repeat this one more time because.......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #119

sweet spot DonCoquixote Feb 2014 #157

Well said 1000words Feb 2014 #163

There is a balance point. It's the Leninist-Trotskyist way..... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #205

Yup, that is the damn truth -- Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2014 #160

100% agreed. Phlem Feb 2014 #207

recommend frwrfpos Feb 2014 #109

A little harsh, but still K&R PotatoChip Feb 2014 #114

Hear, hear! k&r n/t Laelth Feb 2014 #118

Kick! woo me with science Feb 2014 #120

The Republicans would lose if they didn't bow down to the Tea Party treestar Feb 2014 #122

The "Tea Party" Has Massive Corporate and Media Backing AndyTiedye Feb 2014 #191

Massive corporate and media backing seems to work to convince the masses treestar Feb 2014 #260

Now THAT's a Mayor. Octafish Feb 2014 #123

Just a slight factual correction.......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #126

Thank you, socialist _n_TN! My mistake. Octafish Feb 2014 #133

Thank you Octafish...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #134

Yeah... Bennyboy Feb 2014 #132

... 840high Feb 2014 #135

K&R LiberalEsto Feb 2014 #136

I supported the Sawant campaign OutNow Feb 2014 #140

I think there may be a perception problem here sadoldgirl Feb 2014 #144

That's what 175 years of capitalist propaganda will get you......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #152

Yep. Even though capitalism isn't mentioned in the constitution, it controls our government. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2014 #153

It's wonderful she can share insights she's gleaned from her long career in government, struggle4progress Feb 2014 #156

The point is about what she said. You agree, or not. djean111 Feb 2014 #203

gettin' under your skin, eh? grasswire Feb 2014 #240

If she wants to organize the working class, let her organize the working class struggle4progress Feb 2014 #245

Could you please change your avatar brentspeak Feb 2014 #288

I have to say this and don't get upset. Autumn Feb 2014 #165

DURec! bvar22 Feb 2014 #173

YES! PigBodine Feb 2014 #179

So Many Are Confused On Socialism colsohlibgal Feb 2014 #209

Most don't know what "socialism" is Lysistrada Feb 2014 #276

kick again frwrfpos Feb 2014 #232

The Socialist Party's platform for education rocks. I just went out and checked it out liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #236

kick woo me with science Feb 2014 #295

Her area in Seattle is in no way MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #298