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bluestate10

(10,942 posts)

17. With SYG laws it doesn't matter WHO started the fight. The person with the gun that kills

Mon Feb 17, 2014, 11:30 PM

Feb 2014

wins. Even if other people were witnessing the shooter start the fight, the issue is the fight itself. Once the shooter decides to fire the gun, the fear for life defense comes in to play in states that have SYG laws. Witnesses can't attest to the state on mind of the shooter. I am ok with the castle doctrine where people can protect their home and property, but extending that concept to public spaces is acts of complete fucking insanity.

I promise you, it won't be long before the son, daughter, sister, brother, parent, relative of lawmakers that pass SYG lows get murdered by a person that recognized they could get away with murder because of the SYG law. A woman or man may have a romantic rival, as long as that rival plans the killing well, he or she can find a reason to kill the rival and walk free.

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A man claiming self-defense shot another man to death at a Walmart near my house... [View all] Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 OP

This will likely come down to pipoman Feb 2014 #1

You cannot use deadly force because you're in a fist fight. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #2

Stand your ground you definitely can. reusrename Feb 2014 #4

Stand your ground laws require a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm or death. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #6

First, no one was trying to kill anyone before the gunshot. reusrename Feb 2014 #11

Really? Please show me the section of law that says that. X_Digger Feb 2014 #41

Sure, this is from FL: reusrename Feb 2014 #43

Quote the whole thing, please.. X_Digger Feb 2014 #44

Why hasn't anyone been charged yet then? reusrename Feb 2014 #46

No, it didn't "used to be" that way at all. X_Digger Feb 2014 #48

You're just not seeing the truth. reusrename Feb 2014 #52

Those goal posts must be heavy, why not set them down for a bit. X_Digger Feb 2014 #87

No reasonable fear of serious bodily harm or death? NickB79 Feb 2014 #80

You most certainly can pipoman Feb 2014 #5

Approximately 12 times more people die annually from firearms than from fists or feet. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #9

No I chose long guns because it is true. . pipoman Feb 2014 #12

You chose long guns because it gives the false perception that fists are deadlier than guns. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #16

From your own link. pipoman Feb 2014 #26

Fighting a man at a Walmart register in the middle of the afternoon is not a street fight. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #31

The result is exactly the same, it isn't a boxing match either. . pipoman Feb 2014 #77

Unless of course Politicalboi Feb 2014 #30

Funny how people can jump to pipoman Feb 2014 #78

Getting beaten in Walmart is somehow less dangerous than a back alley? NickB79 Feb 2014 #79

You know good and well it is only because there are many more... Logical Feb 2014 #23

It's not whether they are more dangerous, pipoman Feb 2014 #29

If I was on the jury the guy better have not escalated it at all! nt Logical Feb 2014 #32

Then let's solve both problems at once and amputate everyone's hands. cui bono Feb 2014 #76

I think you need to read the actual laws ..... oldhippie Feb 2014 #10

Yes you can. JVS Feb 2014 #13

Err, you definitely can, even before SYG. X_Digger Feb 2014 #25

That's not the case everywhere. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #63

Tell that to the Zimmerman jury Bandit Feb 2014 #85

The dead man was a champion brick layer. reusrename Feb 2014 #3

Where does it say that? pipoman Feb 2014 #7

There's a short video. reusrename Feb 2014 #14

But would thy start anything with someone else? pipoman Feb 2014 #19

It sounds like he started some argument with the guy's wife. reusrename Feb 2014 #21

The real split between stand your ground and not would be illustrated when we get to the question... JVS Feb 2014 #27

There seems to be a gap in your statement.. X_Digger Feb 2014 #28

I think there are a few more questions. JVS Feb 2014 #34

All good questions, yep. n/t X_Digger Feb 2014 #35

So if he pretend to try and get away he gets to legally kill the guy. reusrename Feb 2014 #49

Pretend to try to get away? How does one do that? JVS Feb 2014 #50

You lay on the ground with the guy on top of you and yell "HELP!" reusrename Feb 2014 #54

If someone is on top of you, you've already fulfilled your obligation to retreat. So I don't see... JVS Feb 2014 #55

How is it self defense to hold someone so they can't get away and then shoot them? reusrename Feb 2014 #56

You're talking about laying down and yelling for help as a way to fake trying to get away. JVS Feb 2014 #58

No one says he pretended to try and get away. reusrename Feb 2014 #61

If he's backing off, the other guy has no business following him to pursue a fight. That is the... JVS Feb 2014 #62

I understand the law. I get it. And the law makes this particular type of murder legal. reusrename Feb 2014 #66

Or pretend you're just some guy getting severely pummeled by a guy who is strong from... JVS Feb 2014 #71

Sounds like bullshit to me. reusrename Feb 2014 #72

Could it be that his self defense is why he isn't pipoman Feb 2014 #82

With SYG laws it doesn't matter WHO started the fight. The person with the gun that kills bluestate10 Feb 2014 #17

One small but important correction. reusrename Feb 2014 #36

SYG = Stroke Your Gun cvoogt Feb 2014 #38

"Picked a fight" is that like the assault equivalent to rape's "asking for it"? JVS Feb 2014 #15

From what I can tell he started some altercation with the dead man's wife. reusrename Feb 2014 #20

Was it a violent altercation or not? JVS Feb 2014 #24

Yeah, you're right. reusrename Feb 2014 #42

I'll wait for more details. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2014 #51

Yeah, that's right. Maybe the wife or the dead guy were being assholes. reusrename Feb 2014 #53

The cops say he was losing the fight. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2014 #59

I still think if you have concealed gun, you should have more responsibility. reusrename Feb 2014 #60

I strongly agree. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #64

Thank you, that's all I'm saying. reusrename Feb 2014 #65

I have gotten to the point that if I bump in to someone, I immediately apologized, not bluestate10 Feb 2014 #8

Your post reminds me of when I lived in Los Angeles. reusrename Feb 2014 #18

"An armed society makes for a polite society." LAGC Feb 2014 #45

Why do people need to carry a gun inside Walmart?.... Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #22

He's justified if he was defending himself from death or LittleBlue Feb 2014 #33

Wait! Doesn't this mean??? Chief D Feb 2014 #37

Or it equalizes a situation pipoman Feb 2014 #83

Do you have more details than those in the link? Jenoch Feb 2014 #39

who are you referring to when you say "these kinds of people" TorchTheWitch Feb 2014 #40

This is insane. earthside Feb 2014 #47

Depends on what you mean by "this"... Straw Man Feb 2014 #57

It's exactly how the law is written. reusrename Feb 2014 #68

No. It isn't. Straw Man Feb 2014 #69

This may never see a jury. reusrename Feb 2014 #70

I think it will. In any case, you're still misinterpreting the law. Straw Man Feb 2014 #84

The last lard-laden bucket of fried chicken wings and legs is worth dying over. xfundy Feb 2014 #67

Damn fucking wild west circa Cha Feb 2014 #73

Hiya Neighbor! FormerOstrich Feb 2014 #74

If only the wife had a gun gwheezie Feb 2014 #75

We lived across the street for 15 years blueamy66 Feb 2014 #81

one day soon... Javaman Feb 2014 #86

Per all of my friends and family in Chandler and the news....no charges will be filed blueamy66 Feb 2014 #88