General Discussion

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

48. It IS chivalry 2.0.

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 12:25 PM

Feb 2014

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 02:08 PM - Edit history (3)

For a group of people who don't have a problem seeing the sexism in a held-open door, I'm surprised that you don't reject the pedestal that the... let's call 'em "white knights" since you're familiar with the terminology... are putting "their women" upon.

No, actually, I'm not surprised. The pedestal looks like high ground and feels like a position of moral superiority, and one can pretend that you got there all by yourself.

At least a door is easier to hold for someone with greater upper body strength. Online, there's no advantage at all.

And yes, there is an innate male protector instinct (I'd walk through fire!!! I'd walk through it both ways!! For realz!), and you're keenly aware of and working it.

This is all aggravated by the unfortunate continued public denial of the legal and social elevation of women and the denigration of men in our culture. Everyone is aware of this problem, but most people – including men, and especially White Knights, are busy rationalizing, denying and pretending it’s not there. White knights are traditionalists, and heroes, and within western culture, they are a toxin. These are men who practice chivalry. White knights are males who defend women, but not because women are people – which might be noble. Rather, they defend women only because they are women. This almost always encompasses a willful blindness to the behavior and utterance of the women so defended.

Thanks for posting this. I read it, and it didn't make me sick. So I reposted it and it still didn't make me sick. I conclude it must be a bug of some sort going around Boston.

If feminism is even passingly interested in equality, then white knights are not feminist allies.

And since these guys are not even officially welcome in the club, it's more than a little tragic and sad.

They'd walk through fire, but just don't suggest that it's the fire of imaginary dragons.

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Highlight:

White Knight [View all] boston bean Feb 2014 OP

pretending to be a feminist to ingratiate with women is WAAAAYYYYY to much work- snooper2 Feb 2014 #1

What does this mean? boston bean Feb 2014 #2

Well, you have to put it together with this video snooper2 Feb 2014 #4

nope, don't get the connection. boston bean Feb 2014 #8

Bruce Lee? snooper2 Feb 2014 #12

OMG. Let. It. Go. Glitterati Feb 2014 #3

So, you are in agreement with the MRA articles? I'm just asking, boston bean Feb 2014 #6

I guess I will make myself more clear Glitterati Feb 2014 #9

Showing support for feminist male allies and providing information boston bean Feb 2014 #13

Not a personal attack. Just the truth. Glitterati Feb 2014 #15

"screeching feminism" geek tragedy Feb 2014 #14

Oh, believe me, I have Glitterati Feb 2014 #16

funny that you reserve the use of your 'feminist voice' to characterize other geek tragedy Feb 2014 #19

Oh, I see.... Glitterati Feb 2014 #20

well, no, most people do not define 'feminism' as 'telling uppity women to STFU' geek tragedy Feb 2014 #23

Never said STFU Glitterati Feb 2014 #28

the only time, as far as can be determined, you've uttered the word 'feminism' geek tragedy Feb 2014 #30

They will NEVER accurately represent what you say to make their arguments. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #161

that's exactly what you said treestar Feb 2014 #191

Aren't you requiring that people do what you want in this argument? You don't want Squinch Feb 2014 #64

I know you have had the "white knight" boston bean Feb 2014 #26

Repeating Glitterati Feb 2014 #29

good for you. boston bean Feb 2014 #31

You're wasting your time... one_voice Feb 2014 #40

That isn't what is going on here. Squinch Feb 2014 #72

That's a valid point... one_voice Feb 2014 #109

Multiple times, by the kind of 'man' who subscribes to avoiceformen. nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #38

garbage ... oh my Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #33

In real life, I've never met a HOF type feminist. Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #206

Neither have I, but I have met the personality types. pacalo Feb 2014 #230

"I recommend you use "trash thread" instead of complaining." pintobean Feb 2014 #18

As would have been moving it to The Lounge where it belonged in the first place. nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #21

It hasn't been locked. pintobean Feb 2014 #25

well, sure, the GD hosts can't even agree on whether to lock threads that geek tragedy Feb 2014 #32

Please, Stop Saying that. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #39

the lounge has an SOP? nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #41

straight up, YES ... *omg. am I actually playing this silly game?* Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #42

"friendly, welcoming place for everyone" geek tragedy Feb 2014 #46

I hope you realize that this phrase = Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #49

of course. libertarians would have turned the garden of eden geek tragedy Feb 2014 #71

uhm ... Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #83

it used to be a place hfojvt Feb 2014 #117

The irony of men telling women how not to talk around other women is rich. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #58

i would have no idea. i am equally abrasive to men and women here. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #69

Friends? People? lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #77

Ah, so only men can be gender traitors then , gotcha nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #84

That feature would be a handy way to deal with lots of threads tkmorris Feb 2014 #127

there's lots of stuff i do trash nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #128

"You have your own feminism forum" Scootaloo Feb 2014 #55

"You have your own feminism forum" reads like Stay in your place!!!!! Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #88

I agree with you. RC Feb 2014 #116

You did a great job with your daughters, RC. pacalo Feb 2014 #234

Thank you. RC Feb 2014 #235

+10 RC Feb 2014 #147

Feminism makes life unpleasant? treestar Feb 2014 #190

A 16 year old in a management position? HangOnKids Feb 2014 #205

Way to twist Glitterati's words! pacalo Feb 2014 #232

What she said is in no way militant MattBaggins Feb 2014 #7

I see a very vocal minority turning DU into a hostile place Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #85

yet you never, ever, ever criticize anyone but the feminists geek tragedy Feb 2014 #89

You choose to hear what you want to hear. I was going after Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #95

if I have mischaracterized your behavior, I apologize nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #99

I don't often agree with you, but here I do. Marr Feb 2014 #97

Thank you! I do like it that we at DU can be Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #101

Well, it comes down to the very simple proposition of DU iself Scootaloo Feb 2014 #98

That is not the issue at all Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #106

Really? boston bean Feb 2014 #112

I agree because it is a pointless war Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #122

the problems still exist even if I didn't say a damned thing. boston bean Feb 2014 #123

Your choice. I have expressed my opinion as have others Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #126

Ever heard the term "bystander"? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #120

Absolutely CFLDem Feb 2014 #129

Nice straw man there, the old "You hate sex!" argument Scootaloo Feb 2014 #135

So it's ok for individuals to make the prints CFLDem Feb 2014 #169

Do you want to take a correspondence course? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #170

Where's the dissonance with social theory? CFLDem Feb 2014 #183

But you seem to be conflating any and all criticism with calls for censorship. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #212

Says one of the most vocal. JTFrog Feb 2014 #111

Lol. Not on that issue. Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #118

Yet you're still skating on thin ice. n/t JTFrog Feb 2014 #188

what does that mean? and who are you? Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #192

Oh, I just meant you were one of those skating on the border of JTFrog Feb 2014 #193

oh. well, I don't know. I don't try to hide who I am. what you see is what you get Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #194

That's fucking funny Scootaloo Feb 2014 #44

Oh, but I do Glitterati Feb 2014 #56

So... you don't Scootaloo Feb 2014 #66

+1 nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #213

If she perceives the feminist discourse she's reading as "SCREECHING", redqueen Feb 2014 #67

Do you read the use of "militant feminist" as "feminazi," too? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #80

Yep. redqueen Feb 2014 #94

And will come back demanding "exact quotes" when you call 'em on it Scootaloo Feb 2014 #103

They probably understand that, but pretend otherwise. Or so my instincts tell me... nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #214

RECOMMENDED! Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #78

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #81

+1 Marr Feb 2014 #93

+1 1000words Feb 2014 #107

You seem a bit unhinged by this. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2014 #125

Can you envision her clutching her pearls? OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #198

Thanks for posting! quinnox Feb 2014 #162

Of course I did Glitterati Feb 2014 #168

Awesome post quinnox Feb 2014 #173

I'd sign up for a gender baiting thread moratorium. Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #209

I would too. If it were applied equally to all "sides," that is. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #218

Certainly! Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #226

Yet I, personally, see value in both, even if I don't 100% always agree with either. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #229

I agree. pacalo Feb 2014 #237

But that's a fallacy in itself, dividing social justice activists into "acceptable" (i.e. polite nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #216

very good post. nt Union Scribe Feb 2014 #166

WTF? treestar Feb 2014 #189

You wonder Aerows Feb 2014 #201

I guess I'm more of a Gray Knight. I will take to the barricades in defense of ... 11 Bravo Feb 2014 #5

Did you get "worked up" over the watermelon and fried chicken lunch? redqueen Feb 2014 #91

Yes I did. And I don't know a single African-American or undocumented imigrant ... 11 Bravo Feb 2014 #124

You minimize objectification by calling it "models in bikinis". redqueen Feb 2014 #132

"women participate in their own oppression" pintobean Feb 2014 #143

Plus a *'ing bazillion!!! Well said, pintobean. nt. polly7 Feb 2014 #146

I think she has me on ignore. pintobean Feb 2014 #155

LOL. ... I hadn't seen that. polly7 Feb 2014 #156

That was absolutely eye-opening. Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #211

Stop making sense! RiffRandell Feb 2014 #199

Finally...that's it in a nutshell. Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #210

Damn, I didn't know how oppressed I was... pacalo Feb 2014 #239

Objectification is absolutely no joke RBStevens Feb 2014 #145

Thank you. redqueen Feb 2014 #149

Miss representation was great - RBStevens Feb 2014 #153

Thanks for that link, here's one for you! redqueen Feb 2014 #157

Oh wow! Feminism is politics?! RBStevens Feb 2014 #167

"The object of my affection.....can change my complexion.....from white to rosy red..... ---> Petrushka Feb 2014 #179

It seems some of your own compadres have "fallen for it" as well... opiate69 Feb 2014 #10

this is a vibe i get from some too, not all just some loli phabay Feb 2014 #11

So wait.... 1awake Feb 2014 #17

nah, not you per se but there are people who support all causes for reasons of trying to get some loli phabay Feb 2014 #22

There is nothing you can do to change what you are. JVS Feb 2014 #61

so you endorse the 'white knight' concept as offered by the avoiceformen crowd then. nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #34

why not read what i wrote, unlike yourself i dont read avoiceformen loli phabay Feb 2014 #36

so you would say the same about white people in the NAACP? nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #47

no doubt there are some who are there for reasons that you would not find pure loli phabay Feb 2014 #57

would you also agree that there are women who seek approval from men by telling geek tragedy Feb 2014 #59

hence my use of the words people and humans, its part of us all loli phabay Feb 2014 #60

I know you didn't ask me the question but my answer would be I am sure there are in some cases maddezmom Feb 2014 #70

No, it doesn't but if you line yourself up with MRA's and boston bean Feb 2014 #76

part of that depends on how one characterizes feminism. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #79

I think you're missing the point Scootaloo Feb 2014 #75

I'm very familiar with that ignorant little comic... opiate69 Feb 2014 #86

But to declare who is or isn't a "real" feminist is to claim an authority no individual really has. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #220

I would argue the point Scootaloo Feb 2014 #236

Well yes, if your ideas are mostly the opposite of what you claim they are, then that's hypocrisy nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #238

I noticed that she wrote "feminists" not feminists cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #160

It's the "white guilt" of gender. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #24

Look at the first post to the OP. boston bean Feb 2014 #27

Well said. redqueen Feb 2014 #96

I'm immune to their consultations. Iggo Feb 2014 #35

They remind me of you guys when you get all worked up, to be honest. bemildred Feb 2014 #37

absolutely ridiculous, and something I really never thought boston bean Feb 2014 #45

well, here's the funny thing geek tragedy Feb 2014 #63

Everybody needs protection sometimes. bemildred Feb 2014 #102

well, sure everyone needs protection, wasn't disputing that. nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #105

There is a movement on DU to convince others many of us hate women and feminism The Straight Story Feb 2014 #43

you forgot the perfunctory reference to opening doors nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #50

you'll see it right below, don't fret! boston bean Feb 2014 #52

! DOORS ! Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #54

got it covered below Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #53

not all men but, hey if the shoe fits ... or yanno Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #51

Doors pintobean Feb 2014 #62

Knock knock Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #130

Excellent reply. pintobean Feb 2014 #139

Could you tell me... one_voice Feb 2014 #131

Benevolent sexism. pintobean Feb 2014 #137

Oh ok. Yeah I remember... one_voice Feb 2014 #144

Only if she's breast feeding though! NuclearDem Feb 2014 #110

while talking on her cellphone! Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #113

Don't you need to make another OP where you pretend to be persecuted? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #87

I might make an op, Others make a group of it (nt) The Straight Story Feb 2014 #90

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #136

It IS chivalry 2.0. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #48

Looks like the hit dogs yelped here in this thread. Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #65

Calling bullshit whatchamacallit Feb 2014 #68

Yep. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #82

that's not true. hostile environment is a very well known and vigorously enforced geek tragedy Feb 2014 #92

There should be no hostile environments for women anywhere whatchamacallit Feb 2014 #100

No it doesn't, though. allowing a hostile environment is considerered discrimination geek tragedy Feb 2014 #104

Again, his slightly hyperbolic oath whatchamacallit Feb 2014 #108

oh wait, we're talking about Will Pitt not Warren? geek tragedy Feb 2014 #114

Cool, glad we cleared that up. whatchamacallit Feb 2014 #115

I agree but, I rec'd it anyway because it was (I think) Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #121

The sentiment was in support of feminism. boston bean Feb 2014 #134

I understand that ... Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #138

I understand. My post was in support of yours. boston bean Feb 2014 #140

oh lordy me! Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #141

. boston bean Feb 2014 #142

It's not controversial, it's just wrong Major Nikon Feb 2014 #148

hoo boy, you're wondering if having a room dedicated for men to gawk at women in bikinis geek tragedy Feb 2014 #150

You obviously have no knowledge and experience on the subject Major Nikon Feb 2014 #159

well of course you see no impact, not like you ever see things from the perspective of women geek tragedy Feb 2014 #163

Either you are speaking gibberish, or I'm too stupid to understand your words Major Nikon Feb 2014 #172

Oh dear. This is going to hurt. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #178

No, it's not Major Nikon Feb 2014 #181

A politically oriented company that has a "SI Swimsuit Edition viewing room"? redqueen Feb 2014 #151

Among a nearly infinite number of other rooms with more being added each day Major Nikon Feb 2014 #152

LOL redqueen Feb 2014 #154

I will Major Nikon Feb 2014 #164

if you reread your own post you will understand why it is not - Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #119

Precisely. I've never seen this as being "men versus women" or anything equally childish. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #224

+1 Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #73

You spin me right round baby right round Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #74

God I can't stand that site ismnotwasm Feb 2014 #133

Maybe they reduce a complex discussion to something small and trivial because that's the only way nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #225

I have recently put in a request for this 'White Knight'. No response. bravenak Feb 2014 #158

Sorry, but this appears to be an Objectification of 'White Knights". Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #217

White knights don't exist. bravenak Feb 2014 #219

Well, I certainly agree! Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #221

White knighting =/= being an ally cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #165

Agreed, but we are speaking about the MRA definition of a white knight. boston bean Feb 2014 #171

That is true. The MRA version is seriously toxic cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #176

They're basically sociopaths. A lot of stuff falls into place when you realize this. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #227

So if I see this guy getting the TAR beat out of him... Lady Freedom Returns Feb 2014 #174

I would hope you would at least call the cops. boston bean Feb 2014 #175

Of course. Lady Freedom Returns Feb 2014 #177

Of course ismnotwasm Feb 2014 #180

My point is that he would expect someone who could help to do so. Lady Freedom Returns Feb 2014 #182

I'm a little confused., sorry ismnotwasm Feb 2014 #185

It is just those MRA Crackpots. Lady Freedom Returns Feb 2014 #186

the site you mentioned DonCoquixote Feb 2014 #184

If they're the same ones who get all offended by "gay rights are civil rights" and the like nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #228

They wouldn't do anything? LostOne4Ever Feb 2014 #187

Did you ever consider that some of the men here do not dislike feminists or their struggle Vinnie From Indy Feb 2014 #195

So, we can infer that because they don't like me boston bean Feb 2014 #196

Why would you infer that? Vinnie From Indy Feb 2014 #200

Because you just said so?? boston bean Feb 2014 #204

I never accused you of being an insufferable ass Vinnie From Indy Feb 2014 #208

If it's only one person's opinion, then why the defensiveness, the need to get so worked up? nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #233

Women can be White Knights Aerows Feb 2014 #197

I hope you are keeping an eye out for raccoons! Vinnie From Indy Feb 2014 #202

Not good Aerows Feb 2014 #203

Remember some people mstinamotorcity2 Feb 2014 #207

"White Knight" is actually the nicer sounding of two terms that MRA's use. stevenleser Feb 2014 #215

I've been called one, and geek tragedy has been called one at least once just this week. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #222

If anyone pushed any other stupid fucking meme from a hate site NuclearDem Feb 2014 #223

That quote from the video and the excerpt from the website are disturbing to say the least btrflykng9 Feb 2014 #231

M'lady, doth thou require rescuing? Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #240