General Discussion

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)

147. Your logic is faulty.

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:41 AM

Mar 2014

States like Idaho that issue concealed carry licenses have people lawfully carrying guns, including college students age 21 or older. For those people, every location that then forbids firearms on premises requires those ccw'ers to remove the firearm from their person and stow it. Every time you handle a firearm and store it away from your person there is a risk, however miniscule as your caution and safety practices make it, that something will go wrong (theft, negligent discharge, etc.). For the non-traditional, 25-year-old college student who works the 8 PM - 4 AM convenience store shift in a dangerous part of town, there is no logical reason why they should have to find another place for their legal ccw during their 4-7 PM class. CCW'ers commit crimes at a far lower rate than the general populace. This NYT piece on this subject was inanely worded and poorly-reasoned.

-app

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When May I Shoot a Student?---A must-read masterpiece of weaponized snark. [View all] kpete Feb 2014 OP

...must read.. master bation geckosfeet Feb 2014 #1

Bravo, Prof. Hampikian. (nt) Paladin Feb 2014 #2

Feigned ignorance aside, the answer to the professors's question is very simple. aikoaiko Feb 2014 #3

The first rule of dictionaries is that you can not define Thor_MN Feb 2014 #38

True, but all dictionaries are perfect tautologies. aikoaiko Feb 2014 #81

Ridiculous. When the laws change, questioning the implications is never flawed. Thor_MN Feb 2014 #90

It has been legal in Colorado for 11 years - it hasn't been a problem hack89 Feb 2014 #4

you heaven05 Feb 2014 #7

Show me all the college students in CO shooting professors. hack89 Feb 2014 #9

you missed the point heaven05 Feb 2014 #10

No - I understand the point of the OP very well hack89 Feb 2014 #11

ohhh heaven05 Feb 2014 #13

Smilies =/= logic hack89 Feb 2014 #16

no they don't heaven05 Feb 2014 #54

ok nt hack89 Feb 2014 #56

Your logic has a very basic fault to the point of being out of context. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #111

look here I don't care heaven05 Feb 2014 #117

I understand that you have an opinion and I respect that you have that right. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #119

You've been arguing facts against faith. It doesn't usually work friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #122

That is true. And I do know the difference. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #124

Wait 'til 2 students with hidden guns get confused... Beartracks Mar 2014 #150

Your logic is faulty. appal_jack Mar 2014 #147

"8pm to 4am in a dangerous part of town" heaven05 Mar 2014 #154

So.... AlbertCat Feb 2014 #39

Each person is different. You would have to ask them hack89 Feb 2014 #42

Each person is different. AlbertCat Feb 2014 #48

ok nt hack89 Feb 2014 #50

It only takes ONCE to BE a problem. lastlib Feb 2014 #29

How many college kids will die of alcohol and drugs this year? hack89 Feb 2014 #30

Changing the subject is the first sign of losing an argument. lastlib Feb 2014 #33

The problem started 10 years ago in Colorado. And no one got shot. hack89 Feb 2014 #36

Your point about Colorado is taken... SomethingFishy Feb 2014 #67

ok nt hack89 Feb 2014 #69

And the GREAT thing about the constitution is it affords everyone that right joeglow3 Feb 2014 #140

I said this up-thread, but I'll say it again. appal_jack Mar 2014 #148

This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Bazinga Feb 2014 #37

Problem? I see all kinds of opportunities in the idea of guns on campus. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #62

When we think of Colorado, we ***never*** think of school shootings. valerief Feb 2014 #12

None of which were at colleges nor by CCW permit holders hack89 Feb 2014 #15

Wow, it only took you 6 minutes to cite the colleges vs. pre-colleges point. valerief Feb 2014 #17

The OP is about CCW hack89 Feb 2014 #18

Yes. It's about Legalizing Guns in Schools. Insanity. nt valerief Feb 2014 #21

And we are back where we started hack89 Feb 2014 #24

Hack, the OP is about the insanity of guns in America. toby jo Feb 2014 #25

So lets regulate people that carry guns, ensuring they pass rigorous background checks hack89 Feb 2014 #26

The first concept you're missing is spillage, Hack. toby jo Feb 2014 #31

Time to present some actual facts hack89 Feb 2014 #34

Hey. This guns on campus idea could be beneficial to all concerned. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #60

Not enough potential customers hack89 Feb 2014 #66

Hey! I'm from Los Angeles. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #70

If you cannot differentiate between illegal underage gun owners hack89 Feb 2014 #71

If you cannot differentiate between humor and serious thought, well, you said it JDPriestly Feb 2014 #85

It is a subject where it is sometimes hard to tell hack89 Feb 2014 #87

The Colon-Dunning-Kruger Syndrome in this thread is strong friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #88

The people who can't differentiate between an illegal shooter and a legal one, are WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2014 #128

What a surprise! You should have told me you were coming. XRubicon Feb 2014 #134

No no no - its gunz gunz gunz hack89 Feb 2014 #136

hey buddy! I have a question for you XRubicon Feb 2014 #137

Gay marriage, equal rights, most gun control hack89 Feb 2014 #138

I like this game XRubicon Feb 2014 #139

Except Bill Murray was funny hack89 Feb 2014 #141

Funny? did you say funny? XRubicon Feb 2014 #143

I haven't seen much liberal in your viewpoint. Start listing: Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #146

Stand your ground professor. zeemike Feb 2014 #5

If he can't tell the difference between an active threat or not then, yeah, this dolt Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #6

Are you an NRA apologist? Swede Atlanta Feb 2014 #14

"Affirmatively legalizing carry on campus encourages carry." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #20

The answer is yes: Favorite group: Gun Control & RKBA DanTex Feb 2014 #23

"My church..." MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #28

Your HOA prohibits firearms in the community? MicaelS Feb 2014 #68

HOA prohibits firearms Lurker Deluxe Feb 2014 #86

Bucking the HOA edict. The moment a good guy with a gun becomes a bad guy with a gun. Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #152

This just in: people ignore pointless, unenforceable rules. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2014 #155

If he's serious about self defense and personal safety, he needs to ileus Mar 2014 #166

You mean like the Statie who fired on a car with children in it? WinkyDink Feb 2014 #44

Why worry about active or not threats. This guns-on-campus idea could change the face JDPriestly Feb 2014 #63

"Sarchasm" IDemo Mar 2014 #159

but I always assumed that when they reached into their backpacks they were going for a pencil OneCrazyDiamond Feb 2014 #8

Very good article libodem Feb 2014 #19

K&R. The whole article is brilliant. DanTex Feb 2014 #22

How many states allow CCW while intoxicated? Bazinga Feb 2014 #35

K & R !!! WillyT Feb 2014 #27

I wonder how many times Bazinga Feb 2014 #32

I expected better from a professor of criminal studies sarisataka Feb 2014 #40

You honestly don't think that if CCW is allowed on campus, more students would carry guns? DanTex Feb 2014 #41

Are you proposing that allowing legal guns will result in more illegal guns? Bazinga Feb 2014 #43

Allowing legal guns will result in more guns, period. DanTex Feb 2014 #47

But that is obvious, what you have failed to do is show what effect more guns will have. Bazinga Feb 2014 #52

Well, there's plenty of evidence that more guns result in more deaths. DanTex Feb 2014 #53

So at best you are extrapolating. Bazinga Feb 2014 #55

Like I said, there's no statistical study of campus carry that I'm aware of. DanTex Feb 2014 #57

It really comes down to whether or not CCW is safe in public. Bazinga Feb 2014 #59

There are obvious differences between campuses and just a random street corner. DanTex Feb 2014 #61

There are also obvious differences between football stadiums and airports and universities. Bazinga Feb 2014 #76

Campus police provides for the safety of the students. DanTex Feb 2014 #80

No more than the NYPD provides for the safety of New Yorkers. Bazinga Feb 2014 #95

Yes, more. The universities in NYC have their own campus police, on top of NYPD. DanTex Feb 2014 #97

"And the administrators and police should have the right to manage that protection as they see fit." friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #100

And this is relevant to CCW how? DanTex Feb 2014 #101

That's what happens when you let cops decide what's permissable friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #105

Really? You think that event was the result of not having CCW? DanTex Feb 2014 #106

I was referring to your deference to authority in re law enforcement on campus friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #107

Aha. So it has nothing to do with CCW. That's what I thought. DanTex Feb 2014 #108

Rather more to do with the subject than global warming, which you've brought up twice friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #114

Note to self. NRAers are not good with analogies. And use smaller words. DanTex Feb 2014 #115

Note to self: Controllers erroneously think all opponents are NRA members friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #120

The NYPD may provide for your safety, but they certainly are not responsible for it. Bazinga Feb 2014 #127

Good talking to you. I agree, thanks for keeping it thoughtful and civil. Cheers. DanTex Feb 2014 #133

Not only allowed on campus, but court houses, post offices, jails, bars, churches, airports, etc progressoid Feb 2014 #75

Many of those places provide security for the people in them. Bazinga Feb 2014 #77

Boise State Univeristy provides security. progressoid Feb 2014 #79

Campus police units provide law enforcement, not security. There is a difference. nt Bazinga Feb 2014 #96

"The Department is staffed with trained professional security and police officers." progressoid Feb 2014 #110

None of whom have any legal duty to protect someone not in custody: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #116

And? progressoid Feb 2014 #126

Kindly show us some of that evidence, please friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #82

Really? The anti-science denialism squad again? Can't you guys just use the search function? DanTex Feb 2014 #83

Despite your ad hominem attack, you're still wrong-and I can prove it friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #92

LOL. The UCR is raw data, it is not a study. DanTex Feb 2014 #94

-3; your screed neglected to mention Sharia law, gays, and/or immigration friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #98

You really don't get it... DanTex Feb 2014 #99

"It's not that the UCR numbers are wrong" So when is that uptick in violent crime going to happen? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #102

What are you talking about? What uptick in violent crime? DanTex Feb 2014 #104

Exactly- there *is* no uptick in violent crime, even with more guns friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #109

Oh, I see. You need to google "ceteris paribus". DanTex Feb 2014 #112

"Sorry, didn't realize just how little you know.." friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #121

Too bad, I thought you were actually going to look it up. DanTex Feb 2014 #130

Intuition says more would caryy sarisataka Feb 2014 #45

That's not the premise of the article. DanTex Feb 2014 #46

He is using the argument sarisataka Feb 2014 #49

Now you're changing the argument. DanTex Feb 2014 #51

He is using both arguments sarisataka Feb 2014 #91

What's to be ambivalent about? This idea should be embraced fully. It could solve a lot of JDPriestly Feb 2014 #64

Sorry, I was unclear sarisataka Feb 2014 #73

You know how a lot of colleges and universities have student bookstores on campus? JDPriestly Feb 2014 #58

The customer base would be too small for this to work. ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #135

One of us misread the tone of the post. I think it was you but it might have been me. Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #153

Could easily be me. ManiacJoe Mar 2014 #163

I'm a college professor. Straw Man Feb 2014 #65

Not a professor of journalism I guess... DanTex Feb 2014 #72

Snark is defined by nastiness. Straw Man Feb 2014 #123

Yeah, right..... llmart Feb 2014 #74

An agenda? Straw Man Feb 2014 #125

Related to the topic / further reading - here is a thread from last month discussing petronius Feb 2014 #78

Like moths to a flame... billh58 Feb 2014 #84

Plenty of grabbers here with their moral panic hack89 Feb 2014 #89

And we're "bad" for not going along with it... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #93

Well, if it's a white professor in Florida and a Black/Brown student -- we know what will happen. Hoyt Feb 2014 #103

Sigh. raven mad Feb 2014 #113

Every state that I know of makes you take classes that teach this exact information proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #118

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Feb 2014 #129

I find it interesting that this college teacher Jenoch Feb 2014 #131

Nice to see that "The Onion" has competition! ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #132

My preferred gun... nikto Feb 2014 #142

wtf kind of post is that? cui bono Feb 2014 #144

The students who fall asleep in class. Crunchy Frog Feb 2014 #145

Just a thought: King_Klonopin Mar 2014 #149

There are people illegally carrying guns on campus everyday hack89 Mar 2014 #156

Isn't that argument just a regurgitated NRA talking point... King_Klonopin Mar 2014 #164

No - because actual facts say otherwise hack89 Mar 2014 #165

Sick society. secondvariety Mar 2014 #151

Lets look at an environment where everyone carrys a weapon and see what happens kmlisle Mar 2014 #157

CCW has been around for a long time. There are real facts on record hack89 Mar 2014 #158

DOD policy is not based on real facts? kmlisle Mar 2014 #160

As a 20 year Navy veteran I have often had my doubts. hack89 Mar 2014 #161

About Greg Hampikian IDemo Mar 2014 #162