General Discussion

King_Klonopin

(1,372 posts)

164. Isn't that argument just a regurgitated NRA talking point...

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 05:33 AM

Mar 2014

The fallacious argument that "If a criminal with a gun can shoot you anywhere at
any time, then gun restriction laws are pointless and useless ?" These arguments
don't dissuade me.

The person who has a gun is probably more likely to shoot someone than the person
who doesn't have a gun.

The main points of my post, again:

1) CCW laws promote, encourage, (whatever) the PROLIFERATION of guns.

2) Proliferation of guns = more violence, less safety ; more paranoia, less security.

I would prefer to NOT live in that kind of world, and therefore I am against any
new laws that promote this epidemic of guns, guns, guns -- such as CCW and Stand
Your Ground laws. My worry is that the chances that we will become either a gun-
violence perpetrator or a gun-violence victim will just keep on increasing. At what
percentage will gun violence be deemed "intolerable" ?

So, I don't think we are going to agree on this.

"All we are saying, is give peas a chance ....."

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Highlight:

When May I Shoot a Student?---A must-read masterpiece of weaponized snark. [View all] kpete Feb 2014 OP

...must read.. master bation geckosfeet Feb 2014 #1

Bravo, Prof. Hampikian. (nt) Paladin Feb 2014 #2

Feigned ignorance aside, the answer to the professors's question is very simple. aikoaiko Feb 2014 #3

The first rule of dictionaries is that you can not define Thor_MN Feb 2014 #38

True, but all dictionaries are perfect tautologies. aikoaiko Feb 2014 #81

Ridiculous. When the laws change, questioning the implications is never flawed. Thor_MN Feb 2014 #90

It has been legal in Colorado for 11 years - it hasn't been a problem hack89 Feb 2014 #4

you heaven05 Feb 2014 #7

Show me all the college students in CO shooting professors. hack89 Feb 2014 #9

you missed the point heaven05 Feb 2014 #10

No - I understand the point of the OP very well hack89 Feb 2014 #11

ohhh heaven05 Feb 2014 #13

Smilies =/= logic hack89 Feb 2014 #16

no they don't heaven05 Feb 2014 #54

ok nt hack89 Feb 2014 #56

Your logic has a very basic fault to the point of being out of context. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #111

look here I don't care heaven05 Feb 2014 #117

I understand that you have an opinion and I respect that you have that right. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #119

You've been arguing facts against faith. It doesn't usually work friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #122

That is true. And I do know the difference. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #124

Wait 'til 2 students with hidden guns get confused... Beartracks Mar 2014 #150

Your logic is faulty. appal_jack Mar 2014 #147

"8pm to 4am in a dangerous part of town" heaven05 Mar 2014 #154

So.... AlbertCat Feb 2014 #39

Each person is different. You would have to ask them hack89 Feb 2014 #42

Each person is different. AlbertCat Feb 2014 #48

ok nt hack89 Feb 2014 #50

It only takes ONCE to BE a problem. lastlib Feb 2014 #29

How many college kids will die of alcohol and drugs this year? hack89 Feb 2014 #30

Changing the subject is the first sign of losing an argument. lastlib Feb 2014 #33

The problem started 10 years ago in Colorado. And no one got shot. hack89 Feb 2014 #36

Your point about Colorado is taken... SomethingFishy Feb 2014 #67

ok nt hack89 Feb 2014 #69

And the GREAT thing about the constitution is it affords everyone that right joeglow3 Feb 2014 #140

I said this up-thread, but I'll say it again. appal_jack Mar 2014 #148

This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Bazinga Feb 2014 #37

Problem? I see all kinds of opportunities in the idea of guns on campus. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #62

When we think of Colorado, we ***never*** think of school shootings. valerief Feb 2014 #12

None of which were at colleges nor by CCW permit holders hack89 Feb 2014 #15

Wow, it only took you 6 minutes to cite the colleges vs. pre-colleges point. valerief Feb 2014 #17

The OP is about CCW hack89 Feb 2014 #18

Yes. It's about Legalizing Guns in Schools. Insanity. nt valerief Feb 2014 #21

And we are back where we started hack89 Feb 2014 #24

Hack, the OP is about the insanity of guns in America. toby jo Feb 2014 #25

So lets regulate people that carry guns, ensuring they pass rigorous background checks hack89 Feb 2014 #26

The first concept you're missing is spillage, Hack. toby jo Feb 2014 #31

Time to present some actual facts hack89 Feb 2014 #34

Hey. This guns on campus idea could be beneficial to all concerned. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #60

Not enough potential customers hack89 Feb 2014 #66

Hey! I'm from Los Angeles. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #70

If you cannot differentiate between illegal underage gun owners hack89 Feb 2014 #71

If you cannot differentiate between humor and serious thought, well, you said it JDPriestly Feb 2014 #85

It is a subject where it is sometimes hard to tell hack89 Feb 2014 #87

The Colon-Dunning-Kruger Syndrome in this thread is strong friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #88

The people who can't differentiate between an illegal shooter and a legal one, are WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2014 #128

What a surprise! You should have told me you were coming. XRubicon Feb 2014 #134

No no no - its gunz gunz gunz hack89 Feb 2014 #136

hey buddy! I have a question for you XRubicon Feb 2014 #137

Gay marriage, equal rights, most gun control hack89 Feb 2014 #138

I like this game XRubicon Feb 2014 #139

Except Bill Murray was funny hack89 Feb 2014 #141

Funny? did you say funny? XRubicon Feb 2014 #143

I haven't seen much liberal in your viewpoint. Start listing: Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #146

Stand your ground professor. zeemike Feb 2014 #5

If he can't tell the difference between an active threat or not then, yeah, this dolt Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #6

Are you an NRA apologist? Swede Atlanta Feb 2014 #14

"Affirmatively legalizing carry on campus encourages carry." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #20

The answer is yes: Favorite group: Gun Control & RKBA DanTex Feb 2014 #23

"My church..." MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #28

Your HOA prohibits firearms in the community? MicaelS Feb 2014 #68

HOA prohibits firearms Lurker Deluxe Feb 2014 #86

Bucking the HOA edict. The moment a good guy with a gun becomes a bad guy with a gun. Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #152

This just in: people ignore pointless, unenforceable rules. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2014 #155

If he's serious about self defense and personal safety, he needs to ileus Mar 2014 #166

You mean like the Statie who fired on a car with children in it? WinkyDink Feb 2014 #44

Why worry about active or not threats. This guns-on-campus idea could change the face JDPriestly Feb 2014 #63

"Sarchasm" IDemo Mar 2014 #159

but I always assumed that when they reached into their backpacks they were going for a pencil OneCrazyDiamond Feb 2014 #8

Very good article libodem Feb 2014 #19

K&R. The whole article is brilliant. DanTex Feb 2014 #22

How many states allow CCW while intoxicated? Bazinga Feb 2014 #35

K & R !!! WillyT Feb 2014 #27

I wonder how many times Bazinga Feb 2014 #32

I expected better from a professor of criminal studies sarisataka Feb 2014 #40

You honestly don't think that if CCW is allowed on campus, more students would carry guns? DanTex Feb 2014 #41

Are you proposing that allowing legal guns will result in more illegal guns? Bazinga Feb 2014 #43

Allowing legal guns will result in more guns, period. DanTex Feb 2014 #47

But that is obvious, what you have failed to do is show what effect more guns will have. Bazinga Feb 2014 #52

Well, there's plenty of evidence that more guns result in more deaths. DanTex Feb 2014 #53

So at best you are extrapolating. Bazinga Feb 2014 #55

Like I said, there's no statistical study of campus carry that I'm aware of. DanTex Feb 2014 #57

It really comes down to whether or not CCW is safe in public. Bazinga Feb 2014 #59

There are obvious differences between campuses and just a random street corner. DanTex Feb 2014 #61

There are also obvious differences between football stadiums and airports and universities. Bazinga Feb 2014 #76

Campus police provides for the safety of the students. DanTex Feb 2014 #80

No more than the NYPD provides for the safety of New Yorkers. Bazinga Feb 2014 #95

Yes, more. The universities in NYC have their own campus police, on top of NYPD. DanTex Feb 2014 #97

"And the administrators and police should have the right to manage that protection as they see fit." friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #100

And this is relevant to CCW how? DanTex Feb 2014 #101

That's what happens when you let cops decide what's permissable friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #105

Really? You think that event was the result of not having CCW? DanTex Feb 2014 #106

I was referring to your deference to authority in re law enforcement on campus friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #107

Aha. So it has nothing to do with CCW. That's what I thought. DanTex Feb 2014 #108

Rather more to do with the subject than global warming, which you've brought up twice friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #114

Note to self. NRAers are not good with analogies. And use smaller words. DanTex Feb 2014 #115

Note to self: Controllers erroneously think all opponents are NRA members friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #120

The NYPD may provide for your safety, but they certainly are not responsible for it. Bazinga Feb 2014 #127

Good talking to you. I agree, thanks for keeping it thoughtful and civil. Cheers. DanTex Feb 2014 #133

Not only allowed on campus, but court houses, post offices, jails, bars, churches, airports, etc progressoid Feb 2014 #75

Many of those places provide security for the people in them. Bazinga Feb 2014 #77

Boise State Univeristy provides security. progressoid Feb 2014 #79

Campus police units provide law enforcement, not security. There is a difference. nt Bazinga Feb 2014 #96

"The Department is staffed with trained professional security and police officers." progressoid Feb 2014 #110

None of whom have any legal duty to protect someone not in custody: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #116

And? progressoid Feb 2014 #126

Kindly show us some of that evidence, please friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #82

Really? The anti-science denialism squad again? Can't you guys just use the search function? DanTex Feb 2014 #83

Despite your ad hominem attack, you're still wrong-and I can prove it friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #92

LOL. The UCR is raw data, it is not a study. DanTex Feb 2014 #94

-3; your screed neglected to mention Sharia law, gays, and/or immigration friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #98

You really don't get it... DanTex Feb 2014 #99

"It's not that the UCR numbers are wrong" So when is that uptick in violent crime going to happen? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #102

What are you talking about? What uptick in violent crime? DanTex Feb 2014 #104

Exactly- there *is* no uptick in violent crime, even with more guns friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #109

Oh, I see. You need to google "ceteris paribus". DanTex Feb 2014 #112

"Sorry, didn't realize just how little you know.." friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #121

Too bad, I thought you were actually going to look it up. DanTex Feb 2014 #130

Intuition says more would caryy sarisataka Feb 2014 #45

That's not the premise of the article. DanTex Feb 2014 #46

He is using the argument sarisataka Feb 2014 #49

Now you're changing the argument. DanTex Feb 2014 #51

He is using both arguments sarisataka Feb 2014 #91

What's to be ambivalent about? This idea should be embraced fully. It could solve a lot of JDPriestly Feb 2014 #64

Sorry, I was unclear sarisataka Feb 2014 #73

You know how a lot of colleges and universities have student bookstores on campus? JDPriestly Feb 2014 #58

The customer base would be too small for this to work. ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #135

One of us misread the tone of the post. I think it was you but it might have been me. Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #153

Could easily be me. ManiacJoe Mar 2014 #163

I'm a college professor. Straw Man Feb 2014 #65

Not a professor of journalism I guess... DanTex Feb 2014 #72

Snark is defined by nastiness. Straw Man Feb 2014 #123

Yeah, right..... llmart Feb 2014 #74

An agenda? Straw Man Feb 2014 #125

Related to the topic / further reading - here is a thread from last month discussing petronius Feb 2014 #78

Like moths to a flame... billh58 Feb 2014 #84

Plenty of grabbers here with their moral panic hack89 Feb 2014 #89

And we're "bad" for not going along with it... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #93

Well, if it's a white professor in Florida and a Black/Brown student -- we know what will happen. Hoyt Feb 2014 #103

Sigh. raven mad Feb 2014 #113

Every state that I know of makes you take classes that teach this exact information proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #118

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Feb 2014 #129

I find it interesting that this college teacher Jenoch Feb 2014 #131

Nice to see that "The Onion" has competition! ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #132

My preferred gun... nikto Feb 2014 #142

wtf kind of post is that? cui bono Mar 2014 #144

The students who fall asleep in class. Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #145

Just a thought: King_Klonopin Mar 2014 #149

There are people illegally carrying guns on campus everyday hack89 Mar 2014 #156

Isn't that argument just a regurgitated NRA talking point... King_Klonopin Mar 2014 #164

No - because actual facts say otherwise hack89 Mar 2014 #165

Sick society. secondvariety Mar 2014 #151

Lets look at an environment where everyone carrys a weapon and see what happens kmlisle Mar 2014 #157

CCW has been around for a long time. There are real facts on record hack89 Mar 2014 #158

DOD policy is not based on real facts? kmlisle Mar 2014 #160

As a 20 year Navy veteran I have often had my doubts. hack89 Mar 2014 #161

About Greg Hampikian IDemo Mar 2014 #162