General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

58. Thats the problem, you are making an assumption. Think about this for a minute.

Tue Mar 27, 2012, 01:42 PM

Mar 2012

Do you think if single payer were passed that Republicans would sit around a table and say, "Gee, we can't attack the constitutionality of this because its method of collecting money is a tax and not a mandate"?

Do you think that matters? If we pass a bill that the money for healthcare reform is collected via taxes but still forces everyone to get it, you think that skirts the constitutionality issue?

Because that is not what is being argued. Take a look for yourself at the questions the conservative justices are asking. They are asking whether the entire population can be forced to buy something.

I think single payer advocates want to believe that they get around that, I dont think they do. I think if five conservative justices want to rule that you cannot force the population to buy something, collecting the money via a tax and having the government provide the service is not going to stop them.

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If the ACA Is Abolished, Then It's Pure Battle between Private Health Ins. and Single Payer [View all] Yavin4 Mar 2012 OP

And will be decided by who wins the elections - plural - this year. freshwest Mar 2012 #1

If presented in the right way I think you could get enough Republicans to approve Medicare for all. CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #2

Their history with Medicare and Social Security for decades goes against that idea. freshwest Mar 2012 #5

Exactly. It is just about delusional to think that the Republicans will endose single-payer. TheWraith Mar 2012 #73

Either you or I totally misunderstand where the REpublican Party stands today. rhett o rick Mar 2012 #6

GOP answer is no health care for millions Johonny Mar 2012 #7

How ironic--in 1992 the Repubs invented the Affordable Care Act more or less librechik Mar 2012 #77

How do you see that happening? I'm wondering what would cause the GOP to have a change CTyankee Mar 2012 #11

The people CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #13

I've always liked "Medicare for all" but didn't the insurance industry kill it, through the tender CTyankee Mar 2012 #16

Answer...Obama CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #24

I think he saw no reason to forgo health care reform by fighting for what he probably deemed CTyankee Mar 2012 #27

Dunno CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #31

Hopefully, we'll get Chris Murphy as our next Senator, replacing Joe. CTyankee Mar 2012 #34

Is he good? CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #36

He's great. He's not my rep (Rosa Delauro is) but he is one of the really good guys. CTyankee Mar 2012 #44

Why did nearly all Congressional Republicans vote for the Ryan budget karynnj Mar 2012 #18

They must want to lose CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #22

"The GOP would go with it or cease to exist." NYC Liberal Mar 2012 #56

Do you know something Bernie Sanders and John Kerry don't? karynnj Mar 2012 #15

It needs to have vocal public advocates. CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #32

And do what? What do you think he can tell people to change their minds, exactly? stevenleser Mar 2012 #40

Sell the people. Use irrefutable non-confrontational logical arguments. CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #43

Share some with me, and then lets video tape each of us making that argument to people who stevenleser Mar 2012 #45

My first point would be that CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #61

I thought the polls already showed 70% or more in favor of single payer. ieoeja Mar 2012 #68

I watched the healthcare debates karynnj Mar 2012 #71

LOL no. Today's Republicans would abolish Medicare altogether... NYC Liberal Mar 2012 #35

They CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #38

For that very reason it will not be abolished. As you indicate, that action would rhett o rick Mar 2012 #3

Single payer has to happen for this country to continue. libtodeath Mar 2012 #4

And there you have it. "This country" meaning a free democracy is already gone. rhett o rick Mar 2012 #8

I believe it is happening libtodeath Mar 2012 #12

What specifically do you think "is happening"? rhett o rick Mar 2012 #19

I don't think we can underestimate what Occupy has done. We are now talking about the CTyankee Mar 2012 #28

I know it has to get there but right now libtodeath Mar 2012 #47

Then why doesn't it have to happen in Germany, France, Switzerland and Japan? bornskeptic Mar 2012 #33

They do have universal health care paid for through taxes, tho. They simply do it through CTyankee Mar 2012 #39

But it will all be fine because fewer babies will be aborted. MoonRiver Mar 2012 #9

Neither is ACA zipplewrath Mar 2012 #10

The Wealthcare and Profit Protection Act is private, for profit healthcare access. TheKentuckian Mar 2012 #14

Single Payer/Medicare for all will never happen... vi5 Mar 2012 #17

Agree. The revolution is waiting. nm rhett o rick Mar 2012 #20

Actually, there is a way. Old and In the Way Mar 2012 #23

I'm unable to do that... vi5 Mar 2012 #25

I'm probably in your boat. Old and In the Way Mar 2012 #26

Medicare is less liberal CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #41

Everyone's familiar with Medicare. It doesn't have the "scary" quotient mainer Mar 2012 #46

I always thought Medicare, being a trusted "brand" to the American people, would be a much CTyankee Mar 2012 #49

Yes I agree. I do not think Medicare is Socialism anyway. CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #55

Every other modern industrialized country in the whole world have socialized medicine. CTyankee Mar 2012 #60

Medicare for the non-elderly is liberal.... vi5 Mar 2012 #62

"it insures Democrats will be even more timid" kenny blankenship Mar 2012 #74

It will happen in the minds of those that have deluded themselves. bluestate10 Mar 2012 #76

It already is a battle Puzzledtraveller Mar 2012 #21

I dont see it that way. I see a defeat of the individual mandate as a proxy defeat for single payer stevenleser Mar 2012 #29

Legally it might be different for single-payer andym Mar 2012 #66

If we do it the way you mention where there are opt outs, I think it would be harder for them to stevenleser Mar 2012 #67

I just heard Governor Rendell saying the same thing on MSNBC. Cleita Mar 2012 #30

They should have gone with the Public Option in 2009 jzodda Mar 2012 #37

You would still be looking at a Supreme Court challenge via similar arguments. stevenleser Mar 2012 #42

Actually thats not accurate jzodda Mar 2012 #50

Medicare is not provided to everybody, it's specifically for the elderly. It's not about commercial stevenleser Mar 2012 #52

Actually Its also about Medicaid jzodda Mar 2012 #54

Thats the problem, you are making an assumption. Think about this for a minute. stevenleser Mar 2012 #58

I disagree because Medicare is Legal and Constitutional. jzodda Mar 2012 #64

Not necessarily. Medicare can be justified as an exception because retired elderly dont work and stevenleser Mar 2012 #69

Although we disagree on how the public option would be viewed on review by the Court jzodda Mar 2012 #79

The public option would be tax-funded. girl gone mad Mar 2012 #51

They arent arguing that at the SCOTUS. They are arguing forcing all people to pay for something. stevenleser Mar 2012 #53

The issue is vastly different jzodda Mar 2012 #57

Some want to think so.I dont think five conservative justices will find it different in a better way stevenleser Mar 2012 #59

Yes but Medicare Part D was litigated and they refused to take the case jzodda Mar 2012 #65

Right but whose law was Medicare Part D and did it forceably cover every person in the country? stevenleser Mar 2012 #72

the whole idea of healthcare will be toxic for many years spanone Mar 2012 #48

No politician in his or her right mind will lead the battle for public health care. bluestate10 Mar 2012 #78

Interesting ProSense Mar 2012 #63

never mind geardaddy Mar 2012 #70

A battle that Single Payer has lost over and over again. bluestate10 Mar 2012 #75