General Discussion

badtoworse

(5,957 posts)

158. It's up to the state to make that decision

Thu May 1, 2014, 06:20 AM

May 2014

As for the Free Market, business is going to operate in its own best interest, not the state's. That's the way it is and how it should be. Businesses always have the option to leave and states need to consider that when they impose high taxes and onerous regulations. At some point, businesses will decide they've had enough and they'll move, which is what Toyota has done.

Some years ago, I was working in power project development and we were considering a project in California. I met with the Bay Area Air Quality Management District and they told me what we'd have to do to get an air permit. After hearing their process, we decided they were either crazy or they just didn't want any new plants built in the state. We just gave up on California and focused on Washington and Oregon.

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Toyota moves from Ca to Tx: When are bluestates going to actively fight job poachers? [View all] betterdemsonly Apr 2014 OP

They are also leaving KY, which I would not consider a blue state. Travis_0004 Apr 2014 #1

If they are leaving because of regs and taxes they betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #2

no direct flights to Japan from KY pstokely Apr 2014 #42

I have been very surprised ... oldhippie Apr 2014 #3

This is far worse than what Sterling did. betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #5

Me too. flying rabbit Apr 2014 #12

I'm sure it will do wonders for employee morale. GeorgeGist Apr 2014 #4

I know! I live in Texas and would love to move to California sammytko Apr 2014 #6

Same boat in Texas. GOPee Apr 2014 #8

That will not be found in present day Texas malokvale77 Apr 2014 #13

toyota wants all the welfare benefits with none of the responsibility to give back nt msongs Apr 2014 #7

Given the housing situation in the southbay Johonny Apr 2014 #9

Higher property taxes in Texas because there's no state income tax. tammywammy Apr 2014 #10

The price of car insurance is much higher in Tx betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #22

Ugh tammywammy Apr 2014 #33

If you want to bash Texas, any chance to exaggerate is "legitimate." kentauros Apr 2014 #40

Good grief what a silly post... Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #107

It is still in a republican state betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #111

It's surreal.. sendero May 2014 #161

So has Plano found a way to opt-out of the officially sanctioned curriculum betterdemsonly May 2014 #177

Yes because the internet is always right AnalystInParadise May 2014 #179

So native Texan Bill Moyers is lying about the curriculum the School Board is mandating. betterdemsonly May 2014 #182

It was my daughter AnalystInParadise May 2014 #183

You are the one that made a personal thing betterdemsonly May 2014 #185

The guy is obviously not sincere. He'll get bored and go back to that other site, most likely. nt Romulox May 2014 #191

He admitted he had a security clearance betterdemsonly May 2014 #194

Bullshit flag number one thrown AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #132

Bullshit flag number two thrown AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #133

But what do those TX HS grads know, compared to a CA HS grad? alp227 May 2014 #147

LOL AnalystInParadise May 2014 #156

Apparently Texas falsifies its dropout rate by counting dropouts as homeschooled betterdemsonly May 2014 #164

Prop 13? Probably irrelevant. Dreamer Tatum Apr 2014 #81

talking about company that probably bought the land in 1982 Johonny Apr 2014 #116

Good deal for Texas and Plano, bummer for California... Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #11

And on the other hand.. X_Digger Apr 2014 #15

I don't care about Texas or California betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #18

I travel a lot, every week I am in a new small town... Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #21

Pretty skeptical of that betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #26

Arrogant nonsense AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #134

I think it's called sour grapes badtoworse Apr 2014 #135

California sucks when it comes to taxes joeglow3 Apr 2014 #14

I don't think that is nearly as awful as getting blown up betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #27

And everyone is entitled to their opinion. joeglow3 Apr 2014 #28

I think corporations should honor their betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #32

Please elaborate on that joeglow3 Apr 2014 #37

Could you please cite a couple of passages .... oldhippie Apr 2014 #62

they also don't appear to be worried about their employees kids being taught creationism pstokely Apr 2014 #74

How come we only care about employees with kids? joeglow3 Apr 2014 #75

My god, birth control is available in Texas. former9thward Apr 2014 #126

Thank You! npk Apr 2014 #143

It is not available in most areas if you are uninsured betterdemsonly May 2014 #163

I and most people have never used insurance to buy birth control in my life. former9thward May 2014 #188

You didn't even bother reading it. betterdemsonly May 2014 #193

And I don't want to share a tent with someone who puts out 'facts' that are not true. former9thward May 2014 #195

Only on certain varieties of the pill betterdemsonly May 2014 #196

This message was self-deleted by its author betterdemsonly May 2014 #189

Why wouldn't one be able to use birth control in Texas? IronGate Apr 2014 #146

Jennifer Granholm has. moondust Apr 2014 #16

But how? The state of WA just gave Boeing billions in perks and Boeing said thanks pnwmom Apr 2014 #17

Perks do nothing but increase betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #19

A tax penalty would drive Boeing completely out of here. I don't understand how you think pnwmom Apr 2014 #20

We need a national tax penalty for this sort of behavior betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #24

Only a national solution would help. But that's awfully hard to imagine happening.n/t pnwmom Apr 2014 #25

It's like a game of "musical chairs" that's been going on some 50 years now. Romulox Apr 2014 #31

Yes and the question was how to stop it betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #38

I don't think you can stop it. Once you buy into the logic of cheap labor, a race-to-the-bottom Romulox Apr 2014 #39

I don't buy into the logic of cheap labor betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #46

Americans do though. Toyota is #1 in the US, remember. It's been a non-union shop since day 1. nt Romulox May 2014 #192

Why did Toyota move? nt Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #23

Because California has become extremely expensive with taxes yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #54

but how many will actually come from CA? pstokely Apr 2014 #55

It depends yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #56

it's a loss for a blue state, a win for a red state pstokely Apr 2014 #57

Can you elaborate on your last statement npk Apr 2014 #144

Well UCLA is more selective than Texas Tech or Oklahoma State, and UT pstokely May 2014 #153

But why didn't you talk about Rice University? AnalystInParadise May 2014 #180

10 years ago sweetapogee Apr 2014 #59

Toyota moved because they need to consolidate their North American operations. haele May 2014 #167

They're moving to the Legacy Business Park in Plano tammywammy May 2014 #168

Okay - so it's not as sweetheart as it potentially could have been... haele May 2014 #170

Thanks for this OP. I'm in the market for a new car. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #29

Why? Savannahmann Apr 2014 #44

perhaps sweetapogee Apr 2014 #60

Wait...the people who go out of their way to buy non union made product will care about this why? Romulox Apr 2014 #30

And so the game will continue because you think betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #35

It's not up to me. It's up to Toyota's consumers. They're anti-union, pro-race-to-the-bottom Romulox Apr 2014 #36

I am well aware of that betterdemsonly Apr 2014 #47

Toyota Prius, the union busters car of choice. nt Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #53

That's not true. People just want to get the best car they can for their money badtoworse Apr 2014 #61

Listen to yourself. You went non-union to save a buck. That's what union-busting is all about. Romulox Apr 2014 #94

Save a buck? Try a few thousand more for an inferior car. badtoworse Apr 2014 #108

And I'm sure they save thousands per head by moving from California. So why complain? nt Romulox May 2014 #174

So wait I bought a car that cost me and my family less money AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #136

I didn't invent the concept of "solidarity", I'm just trying to explain it to you guys. Romulox May 2014 #173

My job is recession proof AnalystInParadise May 2014 #178

So maybe YOU are the scorpion in the story, instead of the frog. The moral is the same: Romulox May 2014 #190

Maybe they should make a competitive product... Open_n_Shut May 2014 #169

The point of this thread is that *California* isn't putting out a "competitive product". Romulox May 2014 #172

Agree NOT buying a non union made car should PubsFU Apr 2014 #66

I bought a non union car AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #137

Guess you must be part of the 1% whose wages for labor are not impacted in anyway, shape or form PubsFU May 2014 #157

Yeah I am actually. AnalystInParadise May 2014 #181

Is that a deliberate taunt? Or is it sarcasm? Populist_Prole May 2014 #184

So basically you are just self centered and selfish PubsFU May 2014 #186

How exactly did you "save 7,000 dollars" by buying a non-union car? LTX May 2014 #187

To the average person, the average consumer, it's about bang for buck. Savannahmann Apr 2014 #90

OK. That same analysis applies with equal force to the average person. *You* haven't been excused Romulox Apr 2014 #93

Indeed? Savannahmann Apr 2014 #104

Standing up for one's principles has a cost. So does not doing so. Romulox Apr 2014 #105

So in other words Savannahmann Apr 2014 #106

My principles AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #138

Yep. Union Scribe Apr 2014 #110

I'm betting they will pay their people less in Texas. Toyota will gain, their workers will not. Mr.Bill Apr 2014 #34

Why shouldn't they joeglow3 Apr 2014 #76

the talent needed may be attracted to places that have a cost of living pstokely Apr 2014 #80

I agree. joeglow3 Apr 2014 #87

but the talent needed for some companies might be in NY or CA instead of Omaha pstokely Apr 2014 #97

Currently, maybe joeglow3 Apr 2014 #103

Workers in Plano will gain; it's a better paying job than average there even if it's less than CA Recursion May 2014 #148

How do you know Toyota will pay more there Mr.Bill May 2014 #152

It may take a big raise to get those California employees to come to Plano away from the beaches pstokely May 2014 #154

I'm sure that's their plan. n/t Mr.Bill May 2014 #155

there wasn't any need for Toyota to be on the West Coast with their plants in the Midwest/South pstokely Apr 2014 #41

That's fairly circular reasoning. Their plants are in the South because of cheap labor and lack of Romulox Apr 2014 #43

Business wise California is a great place to do a lot of things Sen. Walter Sobchak Apr 2014 #45

i think california is used when appearances matter more JI7 Apr 2014 #48

To an extent that is true, Sen. Walter Sobchak Apr 2014 #50

I have read this board for a number of year Lonusca Apr 2014 #70

It's not easy to start or run a business in CA. zappaman Apr 2014 #49

If you don't have time for the beach, you might as well go were you get the most for your $ pstokely Apr 2014 #52

how much corporate welfare would be needed for Toyota to stay in CA? pstokely Apr 2014 #51

California is not a business friendly state badtoworse Apr 2014 #58

Tell me about it ... oldhippie Apr 2014 #63

an over-regulated state vs no-regulated state pstokely Apr 2014 #64

Texas is all sunshine and rainbows until the fertilizer plant one block bullwinkle428 Apr 2014 #65

lack of fertilizer plant regulations didn't attract Toyota to DFW, it's location did pstokely Apr 2014 #67

We used to be able to have nice things in California. Throd Apr 2014 #68

So? Should "business friendly" be the be-all end-all of a good state? alp227 May 2014 #149

It's up to the state to make that decision badtoworse May 2014 #158

That's why we are the 8th largest economy in the world. Starry Messenger May 2014 #151

You sound like Alfred E Neuman badtoworse May 2014 #159

You sound like Ayn Rand. Starry Messenger May 2014 #160

Sometime's it's the most efficient way to communicate. badtoworse May 2014 #162

I'm not only unsure of the means, but also the assumptive reason. whatthehey Apr 2014 #69

many natives of CA and KY may not want to move to TX (or MI) even with raise or bigger house pstokely Apr 2014 #71

Sure - and if it's their choice to make then they can decide what's more important whatthehey Apr 2014 #78

would you expect a native Texan from DFW to move to CA or NY pstokely Apr 2014 #82

I'm on my 8th state. Why not? whatthehey Apr 2014 #86

Sure, why not? DFW Apr 2014 #101

Yes, I've known some that have done exactly that. tammywammy Apr 2014 #112

Your logic and reasoning notwithstanding ..... oldhippie Apr 2014 #99

and moving thousands of mostly well educated cosmopolitanmiddle class folks into TX won't help that? whatthehey Apr 2014 #100

Will y'all EVER learn? kentauros Apr 2014 #102

It looks to me like ..... oldhippie Apr 2014 #113

I'm guessing, then, kentauros Apr 2014 #114

I live in Texas ..... oldhippie Apr 2014 #115

Then you're not looking at the map I provided kentauros Apr 2014 #117

Whatever .... oldhippie Apr 2014 #123

Faster-better-cheaper wins every time. Orsino Apr 2014 #72

it wouldn't have helped, Toyota wanted a central location pstokely Apr 2014 #73

CA should refuse to allow a single new Toyota to be sold in the state randys1 Apr 2014 #77

Should Japan have done so when Toyota hired people in CA in the first place? whatthehey Apr 2014 #79

Then no company would ever set up shop in California again. Throd Apr 2014 #84

what is unattractive about it? CA expects them to pay taxes like everyone else? randys1 Apr 2014 #85

It is expensive and difficult to do business in CA. Throd Apr 2014 #88

do you know why? randys1 Apr 2014 #89

Businesses are going to go where it's cheaper to do business, IronGate Apr 2014 #92

I have been involved in manufacturing in CA for 20 years. I do know why. Throd Apr 2014 #95

How hard would it be if you couldnt sell your product here at all? randys1 Apr 2014 #118

I support "Intelligent oversight of business". I don't see that practiced here. Throd Apr 2014 #120

You havent said anything but generalities randys1 Apr 2014 #121

High taxes, CEQA, excessive workman's comp, bogus ADA lawsuits... Throd Apr 2014 #122

I'll add some joeglow3 Apr 2014 #127

that's what i thought randys1 Apr 2014 #128

You get your wish, kinda, .... oldhippie Apr 2014 #129

If any of us had any guts we would DEMAND randys1 Apr 2014 #130

cheaper labor in red states pstokely Apr 2014 #98

That is because people are hungry randys1 Apr 2014 #119

So true. IronGate Apr 2014 #91

Look at post 14 joeglow3 Apr 2014 #125

Should the other 49 states refuse to allow Toyota's to be sold if they are not built in their state? former9thward Apr 2014 #124

Wasn't all that long ago that DU wanted Toyota to die Dreamer Tatum Apr 2014 #83

Texans are American citizens, too. MicaelS Apr 2014 #96

As much as I despise Texas this is just the cycle continuing. Jake Stern Apr 2014 #109

You are missing out AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #140

Texas will be blue soon anyway. gulliver Apr 2014 #131

When my girlfriend was working in the DFW area she got be a bumper sticker Sen. Walter Sobchak Apr 2014 #141

not overnight, but gradually pstokely Apr 2014 #142

Toyota makes business decisions based on what's best for the company. Quelle surprise! WillowTree Apr 2014 #139

Didn't realize DU was so teeming with corporatists Populist_Prole Apr 2014 #145

What do you expect when the Democratic PARTY has lots of corporatists in office? nt alp227 May 2014 #150

I think it is astroturfing betterdemsonly May 2014 #165

What's an afcio icon? IronGate May 2014 #171

I'm not sure it's so much "business environment" issue but consolidation issue that prompted this. haele May 2014 #166

Reminder: Toyota is "consolidating" in the cheap-labor South because that's where they make cars. Romulox May 2014 #175

Who is worse? 4Q2u2 May 2014 #176