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morningfog

(18,115 posts)

171. How is "pay with your life" not a statement of revenge?

Reply to azmom (Reply #170)

Fri May 2, 2014, 09:56 AM

May 2014

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If you support the death penalty, you support killing as revenge. [View all] morningfog May 2014 OP

I think it's a fool-proof deterrent to further crime. GeorgeGist May 2014 #1

You're right--they should kill shoplifters and jaywalkers, too. Orrex May 2014 #2

Yeah, because shoplifting and jaywalking causes the death of others. blueamy66 May 2014 #10

It wasn't an argument. Orrex May 2014 #11

Don't agree. blueamy66 May 2014 #13

You are appealing to emotionalism, which is a poor basis for a judicial system. Orrex May 2014 #16

I will admit that I find the "botched attempts" a bit barbaric... blueamy66 May 2014 #18

That's the call for vengeance, though. Orrex May 2014 #24

Let me think about what you wrote. blueamy66 May 2014 #36

ANSWER ME NOW DAMMIT1!!!!!!!!!!!1!!! Orrex May 2014 #37

"You are appealing to emotionalism ..." oldhippie May 2014 #39

Sure it's allowed, but that doesn't make it persuasive. Orrex May 2014 #43

so, answer barbarism with more barbarism. i find that barbaric. spanone May 2014 #185

Well, if you want to control crime... NuclearDem May 2014 #25

I never said that I wanted to control crime... blueamy66 May 2014 #87

So nations without the death penalty don't punish murderers? Scootaloo May 2014 #160

But not a deterrent to others, which us what the deterrent theory morningfog May 2014 #3

It works well doesn't it? Capt. Obvious May 2014 #7

Hmmmm H. Cromwell May 2014 #15

The fact that you justify someone being tortured to death. NuclearDem May 2014 #26

If causing suffering is wrong, then causing suffering is wrong Scootaloo May 2014 #161

And what of the cases where someone is wrongly executed? alphafemale May 2014 #213

So is life in jail. But states with the death penalty have higher murder rates than states that Maraya1969 May 2014 #42

Every statistic says otherwise Shoulders of Giants May 2014 #55

Unfortunately... Orrex May 2014 #59

It's not 100 percent effective Shoulders of Giants May 2014 #61

Sad but true (nt) Orrex May 2014 #67

Nope, intaglio May 2014 #158

For being fool-proof, it sure seems to have swept you up... n/t Scootaloo May 2014 #164

Strangely enough, despite having the Death Penalty - crime still happens. tenderfoot May 2014 #214

Boy it makes arguing easier when you just assign your opponents the basest motives el_bryanto May 2014 #4

If the death penalty doesn't save money or deter crime Shoulders of Giants May 2014 #56

It's a process of elimination. DanTex May 2014 #58

And if you were to talk with someone who supported the death penalty el_bryanto May 2014 #60

It depends the person. DanTex May 2014 #65

Which makes them bloodthirsty? nt el_bryanto May 2014 #66

Personally, I wouldn't use the term bloodthirsty ("eager to shed blood"), but it is arguable. DanTex May 2014 #69

That's my problem with this line of argument el_bryanto May 2014 #70

I'm much more comfortable with "revenge" than "bloodthirst", but the term I would use DanTex May 2014 #71

That's azmom May 2014 #83

It is vengence. Bloodthirtsy,I grant you, is more sensationalist. morningfog May 2014 #94

Call me the avenger azmom May 2014 #95

Not shame based. None of the other arguments withstand scrutiny. morningfog May 2014 #93

And there's the kicker - in an imperfect legal system, which is *every* legal system, inevitably nomorenomore08 May 2014 #204

Spot on. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #102

I see executing someone like Ted Bundy like killing a rabid animal. hobbit709 May 2014 #5

Did he kill anyone while he was incarcerated? Orrex May 2014 #31

He escaped custody once and went on another spree. hobbit709 May 2014 #33

That's a great argument for more secure incarceration Orrex May 2014 #35

He also stood a very good chance of being acquitted at the time of his escape Major Nikon May 2014 #46

DP Calista241 May 2014 #6

except when they're not, but since when do we worry about government killing innocents? unblock May 2014 #51

I believe the DP in an insentive to murder. GOPee May 2014 #78

Thanks for telling me what I believe. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #8

Strictly speaking, it's not telling you what you believe Orrex May 2014 #34

I'll try. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #76

Thanks. Orrex May 2014 #81

As I ask upthread; do nations that lack the death penalty, not punish murderers? Scootaloo May 2014 #162

No, I don't support killing as revenge or vengeance. blueamy66 May 2014 #9

And what about the fact that, thanks to inherent human imperfection, a certain number of innocent nomorenomore08 May 2014 #205

Ah, yet another 'either or' ultimatum MO_Moderate May 2014 #12

Ironically, you condemn an "appeal to emotion" while appealing to emotion. Orrex May 2014 #19

Dollars and cents have nothing to do with my argument MO_Moderate May 2014 #45

"I was only responding to the weak anti death penalty claim that it is cheaper to keep them alive" Major Nikon May 2014 #47

Wow MO_Moderate May 2014 #48

So please do elaborate if you don't like someone else making reasonable assumptions Major Nikon May 2014 #50

You seem to believe that I don't understand your position on this. Orrex May 2014 #49

What do you tell to these people? Since we are into appeals to emotion nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #148

Hard to say what I would tell those people MO_Moderate May 2014 #169

So you think our legal system is flawless enough that virtually 100% of those on death row nomorenomore08 May 2014 #207

So the governor of Colorado exonerating a death penalty victim nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #217

"It may cost much more to house and execute, but it does not have to." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #206

Whatever, if it makes you feel morally superior.... Throd May 2014 #14

The battle to determine who is the reigning ... JoePhilly May 2014 #64

... Inkfreak May 2014 #82

Could not have azmom May 2014 #84

I have to laugh at those who lob the "moral superior" label while claiming the morningfog May 2014 #173

No merit it prevents future killing by an individual? REP May 2014 #17

it also stopped the wrongly executed from committing any murders CreekDog May 2014 #172

Then give me an alternative that prevents recidivism whatthehey May 2014 #20

And what about the estimated 4% or more of people on death row who are actually innocent? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #208

absolutley, everyone supporting DP is exactly that two dimensional Sheepshank May 2014 #21

All the replies in this thread prove my point. Not one has offered a viable alternative reason than morningfog May 2014 #22

Except you have ignored recidivism continually whatthehey May 2014 #23

As noted above, that's not actually an argument in favor of capital punishment Orrex May 2014 #27

Better supervision and control in prison. NuclearDem May 2014 #32

and? RandoLoodie May 2014 #28

Well, you're wrong in one point. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #29

Death Penalty Not Needed to Prevent Prison Murder morningfog May 2014 #98

Oh dear.... Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #30

OK ... oldhippie May 2014 #38

I don't think that's true Prophet 451 May 2014 #40

I was thinking of the azmom May 2014 #85

It is about punishment not revenge. MicaelS May 2014 #41

interesting slippery slope argument. i suppose we'll want to abolish prisons entirely soon? unblock May 2014 #52

I am anti-mandatory LWOP too. morningfog May 2014 #54

Abosolutely not. No way. MicaelS May 2014 #74

The death penalty is dying. I predict it will end in the US within the next 10 years. morningfog May 2014 #79

You are correct about point one. MicaelS May 2014 #80

I get that. morningfog May 2014 #88

What would you do with a convicted murderer who kills again, in prison? MicaelS May 2014 #91

That rarely happens. The murder rate of COs in prison is much much lower than for morningfog May 2014 #92

Look at the countries with the DP, admire them? nt Logical May 2014 #86

I had no idea AnalystInParadise May 2014 #113

Glad you are getting the message! nt Logical May 2014 #153

The death penalty is barbaric and grossly unjust (and racist) in its application YoungDemCA May 2014 #44

+1000000 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #209

Yes, I support killing as revenge and I make no apologies. PeteSelman May 2014 #53

I don't support killing as revenge. Shoulders of Giants May 2014 #57

You can't avoid the innocent people issue that easily. DanTex May 2014 #62

You might want to rethink this. NuclearDem May 2014 #68

I see it as justice served. 840high May 2014 #105

I love when a psychic posts on DU. JoePhilly May 2014 #63

I sensed that you were going to post that. Orrex May 2014 #72

You're late ... JoePhilly May 2014 #73

LOL! oldhippie May 2014 #77

Any Nation that practices capital punishment cannot call itself a ladjf May 2014 #75

Not hundreds of US executions, 39 last year, 42 in each of the two previous years Bluenorthwest May 2014 #215

You are correct on the numbers. But, the exact number is irrelevant ladjf May 2014 #218

There is nothing azmom May 2014 #89

Are you saying justice isn't done in countries that have abolished the DP? n/t Violet_Crumble May 2014 #189

In my view, justice is not azmom May 2014 #190

I live in a country where the DP was officially abolished in 1973... Violet_Crumble May 2014 #192

These azmom May 2014 #199

I agree but believe there is a time and place for revenge that can involve the DP arely staircase May 2014 #90

Ok AnalystInParadise May 2014 #96

Then what are your reasons for supporting state-sanctioned killing? morningfog May 2014 #97

No I have thought it through very clearly AnalystInParadise May 2014 #104

The death penalty has absolutely nothing to do with justice baldguy May 2014 #112

That is your opinion AnalystInParadise May 2014 #115

How was the torture that occured in Oklahoma justice? baldguy May 2014 #151

Got it. Your concept of justice is revenge. morningfog May 2014 #114

Not at all....... AnalystInParadise May 2014 #116

"Justice is watching the criminal die for his horrible crimes" morningfog May 2014 #118

Wow judgemental and charming AnalystInParadise May 2014 #124

Should Hitler have faced the death penalty? Skip Intro May 2014 #99

No. morningfog May 2014 #100

Well hold on a minute. Skip Intro May 2014 #101

You are confusing the issue. morningfog May 2014 #106

Question was among a larger expressed thought on the subject. Skip Intro May 2014 #110

I don't agree with you. When 840high May 2014 #107

Because you want to avenge their deaths. morningfog May 2014 #109

You seem to confuse the terms revenge and justice. AnalystInParadise May 2014 #117

You are letting your mask slip again. morningfog May 2014 #119

What mask might that be? AnalystInParadise May 2014 #121

Figure it out. morningfog May 2014 #123

Yes I do know who I am AnalystInParadise May 2014 #125

You know who are and what you are here to do. morningfog May 2014 #129

Please continue AnalystInParadise May 2014 #133

Ignore. morningfog May 2014 #139

So wait AnalystInParadise May 2014 #143

"Cmon tough guy or girl." Texasgal May 2014 #178

It's the man up for 840high May 2014 #126

Good luck friend AnalystInParadise May 2014 #128

Good thing I'm going to bed. Sweet dreams. 840high May 2014 #131

It isn't always the jury that decides. morningfog May 2014 #132

About as fucked up AnalystInParadise May 2014 #134

Get bent. morningfog May 2014 #138

I agree. But humans are emotional animals. flvegan May 2014 #103

Ummm...so? Katashi_itto May 2014 #108

Many here try to confuse the issue with failed logic and false arguments. morningfog May 2014 #111

My argument is not false nor is my logic. AnalystInParadise May 2014 #120

Punishment is revenge, genius. morningfog May 2014 #122

No I am logical AnalystInParadise May 2014 #127

No it's not. You 840high May 2014 #130

I get that a lot of people disagree with me, and often. I'm not even trying to change their minds. morningfog May 2014 #137

So only you are right AnalystInParadise May 2014 #144

The basis can be to azmom May 2014 #170

How is "pay with your life" not a statement of revenge? morningfog May 2014 #171

Pay with your life is a punishment azmom May 2014 #174

Death is not a punishment. morningfog May 2014 #175

We azmom May 2014 #186

From wiki azmom May 2014 #187

It's entertaining that you believe you just presented a logical argument tkmorris May 2014 #135

I fully acknowledge I am only speaking my own opinion. AnalystInParadise May 2014 #141

It's been abundantly clear, though you don't present it as opinion tkmorris May 2014 #152

In that case I guess I support revenge. Demobrat May 2014 #136

Hit a nerve? morningfog May 2014 #140

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #142

I already said I want revenge Demobrat May 2014 #145

Well then I assume you will be called a monster AnalystInParadise May 2014 #146

I assume I will be called both. Demobrat May 2014 #147

Oh, the better, better, better comments weren't personal? morningfog May 2014 #149

I told you what you wanted to hear. Demobrat May 2014 #150

If there is no deterrent Riftaxe May 2014 #154

Deterrence, when discussing sentencing, generally refers to the deterrent effect prior to morningfog May 2014 #155

I don't think you understand what "deterrent" means Scootaloo May 2014 #163

DP should have tiers Politicalboi May 2014 #156

Life in prison without parole PumpkinAle May 2014 #157

I love the defensive nature of some of these posts. U4ikLefty May 2014 #159

No, they're probably mad at being subjected to intellectual dishonesty. Shandris May 2014 #165

They are mad at the construct of my point, but morningfog May 2014 #166

I thought I spelled out QUITE CLEARLY that I'm not pro-DP. That doesn't mean... Shandris May 2014 #167

You did make it clear. You also mentioned past support. morningfog May 2014 #168

Headache = excuse U4ikLefty May 2014 #193

I get it - your OP is the flipside of accusing anti-DPers are cuddling criminals. aikoaiko May 2014 #176

Offer another justification that withstands facts and logic. morningfog May 2014 #177

A measured execution is not the most punitive response possible and it is not the least. aikoaiko May 2014 #183

That make zero sense. U4ikLefty May 2014 #194

Life with eligibility of parole is not a guarantee of parole and release. morningfog May 2014 #196

I will admit that I am not as evolved as some of you in this thread. I still am hung up on revenge. Rex May 2014 #179

I still don't see what's wrong with revenge, either .... oldhippie May 2014 #182

Well if unconditional love and forgiveness are the enlightened way, I still have a long ways to go. Rex May 2014 #184

I think azmom May 2014 #191

reckoning oneofthe99 May 2014 #188

And, to be honest, I get that. morningfog May 2014 #197

I agree, because I can also see the barbarism of purposly killing someone. Rex May 2014 #211

I totally agree with azmom May 2014 #212

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #180

Let me add this to the discussion nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #181

An 86 year old woman was beaten to azmom May 2014 #195

It simply does not change depending on what the crime charged is. morningfog May 2014 #198

It certainly has to azmom May 2014 #200

The state used to be able to put juveniles to death. morningfog May 2014 #201

I hope you are azmom May 2014 #202

"we all have different views on things." bobduca May 2014 #210

A six year old was raped, had his head caved in, nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #216

the death penalty is barbaric, and there are a lot of barbaric people responding in this thread.... mike_c May 2014 #203