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In reply to the discussion: If old white men feel maligned, they should take their own advice to minorities. [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)141. Everyone knew that wasn't about all white men. If the shoe doesn't fit, why insist on wearing it?
Moore was not writing about himself but criticizing a segment of society that refuses to give others equal chances in this world. When Franken published this:

He wasn't talking about heavy people. And Moore is well known as a heavy person, too:

Both books are really about heartlessness, not heavy-ness, white-ness, or male-ness. And they were written by white men calling out their alleged kin.
Haven't writers such as Moore used the same designation and not been accused of racism or sexism but been acclaimed as speaking truth to power and calling out conservatives?
Why is it so uncomfortable to listen to others who are not white males, who want to join into the same conversation on reactionaries?
Why are they not respected as allies, as they seek to express their oppression, to teach those who say they're against oppression?
Some seek to find an offense any criticism of what they consider their exterior qualities, when it's not about that at all. It's like identifying with a team. Just as I am of a certain physical type in race and gender, but not heart and mindset to this person:

There are critical differences between this person and myself, though some would say she might be my 'kin.' I barely regard her as a member of homo sapiens in good standing, we're so far apart:
I'm also older than some who post here. I feel more fortunate than the current generation, having lived through the sixties and seventies and seeing and hearing JFK, MLK, RFK and others as they changed the world for me and others. I lived in a time of brave and noble people, not the grifters I see today running amuck and trying to destroy the lives of so many who never did them any harm.
I grew up in a time when unions and workers and doing the right thing by others in general but certainly not all was a given, not subjct to debate, nor was protecting the environment or personal freedoms an issue.
It was the right thing to do. A lot was done in that era, that's since been lost in a tsunami of right wing propaganda working to erase every good idea ever fought and died for to create peace within us.
Those ideals are the shared legacy of my generation of Democrats, not other parties. I'm here to remind those who have not lived in those days, there's a better way to live than what Reagan era spin tells us there is, better than the reality the Koch's are determined to force on us and the generations to come.
So I am and have been blessed, despite hardships and things I do not bring here, never internalizing criticisms of the worst of all, as some do. I don't understand why they would identify with the worst human specimens, because that's who is being called out, and not them, and if they valued what is right, there'd be no fighting.
JMHO.

He wasn't talking about heavy people. And Moore is well known as a heavy person, too:

Both books are really about heartlessness, not heavy-ness, white-ness, or male-ness. And they were written by white men calling out their alleged kin.
Haven't writers such as Moore used the same designation and not been accused of racism or sexism but been acclaimed as speaking truth to power and calling out conservatives?
Why is it so uncomfortable to listen to others who are not white males, who want to join into the same conversation on reactionaries?
Why are they not respected as allies, as they seek to express their oppression, to teach those who say they're against oppression?
Some seek to find an offense any criticism of what they consider their exterior qualities, when it's not about that at all. It's like identifying with a team. Just as I am of a certain physical type in race and gender, but not heart and mindset to this person:

There are critical differences between this person and myself, though some would say she might be my 'kin.' I barely regard her as a member of homo sapiens in good standing, we're so far apart:
First, I wouldn't dress with a cheesy patriotic fabric. Teabaggers think they're making a political statement and looking patriotic. Bullshit, there's nothing patriotic about hate.So I'm not offended. Why should others be?
Second, I never, make such a hateful, hostile face, particularly with that open mouthed yelling. Just imagine the coarseness you'd expect to issue out of that mouth. Hate is not interesting, nor is any help, and that is a hate group.
Third, I can spell and don't wave around signs. Might as well have a Fox News icon tatooed on their foreheads. They hav no original thoughts, just stupid, repeated slogans.
Fourth, I am aware of the issue of making all people talk and act and look the same, and don't approve. We don't have a national language because it isn't needed. The language of most of business, science and other enterprises at this time on Planet Earth is English. It's not endangered. Quit the hysteria.
Fifth, I have better uses of my time than to prate about things that mean nothing. These are simply th arguments of egotism. The baggers have the luxury of first amendent rights and the right to protest in public but this is what they do with their rights, hate on others instead of anything positive.
I'm also older than some who post here. I feel more fortunate than the current generation, having lived through the sixties and seventies and seeing and hearing JFK, MLK, RFK and others as they changed the world for me and others. I lived in a time of brave and noble people, not the grifters I see today running amuck and trying to destroy the lives of so many who never did them any harm.
I grew up in a time when unions and workers and doing the right thing by others in general but certainly not all was a given, not subjct to debate, nor was protecting the environment or personal freedoms an issue.
It was the right thing to do. A lot was done in that era, that's since been lost in a tsunami of right wing propaganda working to erase every good idea ever fought and died for to create peace within us.
Those ideals are the shared legacy of my generation of Democrats, not other parties. I'm here to remind those who have not lived in those days, there's a better way to live than what Reagan era spin tells us there is, better than the reality the Koch's are determined to force on us and the generations to come.
So I am and have been blessed, despite hardships and things I do not bring here, never internalizing criticisms of the worst of all, as some do. I don't understand why they would identify with the worst human specimens, because that's who is being called out, and not them, and if they valued what is right, there'd be no fighting.
JMHO.
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If old white men feel maligned, they should take their own advice to minorities. [View all]
bravenak
Jun 2014
OP
He can read? without reading through the prism of his own experience?
Tuesday Afternoon
Jun 2014
#18
You know Manny, I appreciate this response. Because in four words, you've not only
msanthrope
Jun 2014
#33
Easy mistake to make when the sound of "whoosh" prevents us from a rational interpretation.
LanternWaste
Jun 2014
#304
Everyone knew that wasn't about all white men. If the shoe doesn't fit, why insist on wearing it?
freshwest
Jun 2014
#141
When these arguments come up, from now on can we just say: "If the shoe doesn't fit
Squinch
Jun 2014
#180
Yes, indeed! And quote the 'one of these things is not like the other' or post this:
freshwest
Jun 2014
#260
As a White woman....I may not be a POC but I can extrapolate from the position of being a woman
VanillaRhapsody
Jun 2014
#11
i have a friend who says the problem is older/white/str8t/protestant males are afraid to compete
randys1
Jun 2014
#28
Really? You talk about your fellow progressives like that? I think you're the problem.
Comrade Grumpy
Jun 2014
#196
And this was the same guy whining about being negatively stereotyped as a white male!
nomorenomore08
Jun 2014
#233
I think the people yelling at me should apologize for not noticing when these things are said .
bravenak
Jun 2014
#241
"...the entire demographic she belongs to... makes her part of the problem."
nomorenomore08
Jun 2014
#195
British people aren't a monolith. Those that were nationalist and reflexively got defensive when
redqueen
Jun 2014
#31
Who told anyone that they, *personally*, were inherently bad? Where's the quote? nt
redqueen
Jun 2014
#56
Then the men you know are most likely not the problem. Nor you yourself.
nomorenomore08
Jun 2014
#198
"...unless they totally reject their entire lives instantly." What does this even mean?
nomorenomore08
Jun 2014
#197
I face a lot of things. If you actually had any nuace in your argument, I might agree with you
Armstead
Jun 2014
#82
well, that seems like part of the problem. the entitled feeling that you should remain catered to
bettyellen
Jun 2014
#117
That was not respectful, nor was there any reason for you to take it personally.
bettyellen
Jun 2014
#123
"should remain catered to after generations of this group asking everyone else to play second fiddle
bettyellen
Jun 2014
#203
And you are broadstroking an entire group of people yourself in the same damn way
Armstead
Jun 2014
#79
"...the whiners screaming of being a victim when they victimize others everyday..."
nomorenomore08
Jun 2014
#200
There are people who trend more to the a'hole side of the equation...regardless of ideology
Armstead
Jun 2014
#235
"...it is important to first recognize that demographic groups are not monolithic."
nomorenomore08
Jun 2014
#192
That post was bullcrap and generalizing black women as lacking birth control ed.
bravenak
Jun 2014
#67
Do you see how easy it is to say something like that about people who look like me
bravenak
Jun 2014
#98
That person is still here posting and the jury did nit see the racism in the post.
bravenak
Jun 2014
#129
The point is that another poster made an offensive generalization about an entire race
nomorenomore08
Jun 2014
#201
I can't tell if you are being deliberately condescending or just simply have no idea how you are
Number23
Jun 2014
#258
Well, your presence in the more than THREE YEARS that the forum has existed has been missed
Number23
Jun 2014
#266
Because it's very Meta, and I stayed clear of that group/forum/whatever as well.
WorseBeforeBetter
Jun 2014
#290
Your continued minimization and ignoring of what is discussed in the forum has been noted
Number23
Jun 2014
#318
That is, indeed, their right and their privilege to make liberal use of that feature so kindly
Tuesday Afternoon
Jun 2014
#118
Oh I'm dreadfully sorry I keep forcing you to respond to every single comment I make.
Kurska
Jun 2014
#161
"Therefore they are feeling feelings that they would not feel if they read it."
WorseBeforeBetter
Jun 2014
#147
I thought I was clear "addressing millions of people as homogeneous blobs is stupid."
Kurska
Jun 2014
#137
I received some horrific violence both from people I don't know and most troubling
Kurska
Jun 2014
#186
Glad to see you mention an actual issue. The war on drugs is the new Jim Crow...
Comrade Grumpy
Jun 2014
#211
If people who try to talk to groups of millions of people as if they are identical feel maligned
Kurska
Jun 2014
#127
This seems obviously to be specifically about "old white men who feel maligned"
gollygee
Jun 2014
#149
like the taxi driver said: " Are you talking to me?" answer here is no, just looks like it
Leme
Jun 2014
#163
yup, it's like the right wing always claiming christians are being oppressed and discirminated
JI7
Jun 2014
#208
Going through the article and links, I love this. It has something for everyone to feel good about.
freshwest
Jun 2014
#207
"I think we need to hold the party's feet to the fire and help them progress on race issues."
sheshe2
Jun 2014
#246
Oh My God. But that I could rec this a HUNDRED times. Bravenak, girl WELL PLAYED
Number23
Jun 2014
#249
Lewis is right. Dems and DUers have made the "White man" the root of all evil.
Skip Intro
Jun 2014
#256
Lewis is right? Just like how you defended Duck Dynasty and Chik-fil-A after homophobic remarks:
Cali_Democrat
Jun 2014
#263