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In reply to the discussion: NASA Tests "Impossible" Perpetual Motion Drive; Says it Works [View all]caraher
(6,278 posts)40. Frankly, I'm unimpressed by a lot of NASA bleeding-edge "science"
Has this been through any kind of peer review?
There's really not anything I've been able to find that lets me understand the experiments, the alleged principles behind the devices, etc. Just a lot of word salad. I just skimmed a paper (more like a lengthy abstract) called "Anomalous Thrust Production from an RF Test Device Measured on a Low-Thrust Torsion Pendulum" and it's remarkably uninformative. It also includes this curious passage:
Thrust was observed on both test articles, even though one of the test articles was designed with the expectation that it would not produce thrust. Specifically, one test article contained internal physical modifications that were designed to produce thrust, while the other did not (with the latter being referred to as the null test article).
This really suggests to me a problem with their test procedure. And at these tiny thrust levels, there are so many things that could cause trouble.
The reporting itself is incredibly sloppy, which does not inspire confidence. Consider this gem on the MSN link:
The drive built by China managed 720mN, or 72g, of power. Not a great deal but enough to move a satellite about in space without the reliance on fuel.
Now I can sort through this hash, but believe me, any freshman writing this in my class on a lab will get hammered! What they claim to have measured was 720 mN of thrust, which is a force. That force equals the weight of an object whose mass is about 72 g. None of those quantities are power (energy transformed per unit time).
This sloppiness also makes me wonder whether they've also confused milli-Newtons and micro-Newtons (the NASA test pegged the force around 50 micro-Newtons).
For all my skepticism, I actually think there's nothing woo-like or even implausible about the existence of some quantum vacuum effect that could be exploited to created thrust without the need to lug a propellant. Since you need to supply some energy to the device it doesn't set off any "perpetual motion machine" BS detectors, and it's well-known that electromagnetic radiation carries momentum (though everyone seems to insist that classical EM theory cannot explain what they see). Even tiny thrusts can be game-changers if you don't need to lug reaction mass around!
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I'm thinking that Big Oil will thwart this somehow because of its potential for
kelliekat44
Aug 2014
#55
the term "woo" is such silly BS -- it truly diminishes some important groundbreaking work
nashville_brook
Aug 2014
#2
Mmmm. Not quite. Electricity is not the fuel. Satellites are not the only anticipated application.
DirkGently
Aug 2014
#8
Could it be possible that other "particles" could be used for electricity generation as they're
Uncle Joe
Aug 2014
#77
Fuel in this case is simply propellent, unlike in chemical rocket engines, which are...
Humanist_Activist
Aug 2014
#69
It kind of is if quantum fluctuation particles drive the engine and are created perpetually .
Kablooie
Aug 2014
#14
Yeah, but it still takes energy (electricity) to accelerate the reaction mass..
sir pball
Aug 2014
#74
Correct me if I'm wrong, but these particles are pretty much everywhere in the universe.
backscatter712
Aug 2014
#58
God-fucking-dammit, it is NOT woo coming true, and its not a perpetual motion machine...
Humanist_Activist
Aug 2014
#68
Bullshit, if someone was claiming the quantum consciousness was driving the device...
Humanist_Activist
Aug 2014
#82
Nope. "“Alright!” they said. “We’ll test your stupid drive that won’t work.”
DirkGently
Aug 2014
#83
We've known of this phenomenon for a long time as zero-point energy or the Casimir effect
derby378
Aug 2014
#70
The Casimir effect is not considered woo, but some of the claims associated with it are
derby378
Aug 2014
#90
The only people I've ever heard talk about the Casimir effect are woo-peddlers
Hugabear
Aug 2014
#99
With a flux capacitor, powered by cold fusion, the possibilities are limitless (nt)
Nye Bevan
Aug 2014
#106