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malthaussen

(17,204 posts)
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:49 PM Aug 2014

Rumination on misogyny. [View all]

I have been ruminating a bit on the issue of misogyny here at DU, and thought to share the fruits of my labor so far. And I will start by referencing a different, if related subject, that of rape.

When the woman says the man raped her, and the man says she loved it, in the absence of witnesses, whom are we to believe, or if not believe, grant the greater benefit of the doubt? Now, the moderate and even-handed individual might, at first blush, sadly shake his head and say that, since it is the man's word against the woman's, no determination can be made. Let's look a little deeper at that, though. The first objection to that position that occurs to me is this: by proclaiming neutrality, we automatically cast doubt on the woman's word. This is inescapable: we are telling her that her assertion has no validity unless she can prove it. Yet no such burden lies on the man, and in fact we implicitly endorse his assertion that she loved it by not questioning it. Of course, if the opposite were true, and we discounted the man's word out of hand and accepted hers, then we are denying validity to him while placing no burden on her. But since this is not the practice, it is an empty point, although one might wish to ruminate in an idle hour on whether it is a greater injustice to be falsely accused, than to be bereft of recourse.

But let's look a little deeper, if you will. The second thing that strikes me in this situation is that the woman, in asserting rape, is making a statement about herself. She is telling us what happened to her body, her psyche, her right to her own physical and emotional integrity. The man who asserts she loved it, however, is making a statement not about himself, but about someone else. One might reasonably ask which has the greater claim to authority, in this case: the one who speaks of herself, about whom she could reasonably be assumed to have rather more certain knowledge and understanding than you or I, or the one who speaks of another person, and arrogates to himself the final word on what she did or did not feel, did or did not experience. To me, this seems rather a telling point.

So now we proceed, willy-nilly, to misogyny. I have seen, recently, rather a number of conversation threads that go like this: A, a female, states "I have seen/experienced a lot of misogyny here on DU. B, a male, responds "It's not a lot, and those who do it are banned." These threads usually go rapidly downhill from there.

How, then, does my earlier rambling about rape relate here? Well, it occurs to me that if an individual says she has experienced certain behavior, she is rather more of an authority on her experience than the interlocutor who tells her she is misrepresenting/misinterpreting the situation. Whereas the individual who asserts that her experience is a misrepresentation/misinterpretation is arrogating to himself veritable status as arbiter of what does and does not constitute misogyny, and who does or does not experience it.

Another thought occurs to me, unrelated to the rape illustration, but with bearing on the question of misogyny. I am a male. In 58 years of life, I have never been subjected to misogyny, and never shall. It is, one might say, a biological necessity. I may have experienced other forms of bigotry, insult, belittlement: I have never felt misogyny. I may have witnessed acts, been exposed to circumstances or statements to which I would attach my own definition of the word, still I have never experienced misogyny. It is not, therefore, for me to define the phenomenon for those who have had such experience. It is rather for me to learn from them, that I might become wary enough to recognize it, and courageous enough to oppose it.

-- Mal

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Rumination on misogyny. [View all] malthaussen Aug 2014 OP
one thing dsc Aug 2014 #1
Yes, that is the problem with an imperfect justice system. malthaussen Aug 2014 #2
false rape is between 2-3% per fbi and scotland yard, the same as other crimes. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #3
I am not saying it is a high number of cases dsc Aug 2014 #5
I'll have to quibble there, dsc. malthaussen Aug 2014 #6
I apologize if my inference wasn't your implication. dsc Aug 2014 #9
the number is the same as in al crimes. so i expect to have a consideration in the same manner seabeyond Aug 2014 #7
It is dsc Aug 2014 #10
In any event, of course... malthaussen Aug 2014 #11
way to jump in and derail the conversation? mopinko Aug 2014 #19
sorry dsc Aug 2014 #25
i figured you had been here long enough mopinko Aug 2014 #26
there are places called safe spaces for a reason dsc Aug 2014 #28
except that is not what you are doing. mopinko Aug 2014 #31
You don't get to dictate terms of discussion here dsc Aug 2014 #35
Because some wimmins is assholes XemaSab Aug 2014 #21
An Excellent Illustration, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #4
Thank you, Sir. malthaussen Aug 2014 #12
"It is not, therefore, for me to define the phenomenon for those who have had such experience" etherealtruth Aug 2014 #8
Excellent post BainsBane Aug 2014 #13
point. we have many men that do. maybe that is in part hearing so loudly the men unable/unwilling.nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #14
That would seem to be the essence of empathy. malthaussen Aug 2014 #15
DURec leftstreet Aug 2014 #16
Thank you. malthaussen Aug 2014 #17
When the woman says the man raped her sulphurdunn Aug 2014 #18
Clearly, I don't think so. malthaussen Aug 2014 #20
What's legally relevant is not the person's own mind, but whether consent was expressed. Jim Lane Aug 2014 #24
Yes, I should have been clearer... malthaussen Aug 2014 #30
Sorry, I'm still not getting it. Jim Lane Aug 2014 #34
Consider, then, rather than "consent," "intent." malthaussen Aug 2014 #37
Are you speaking legally or personally? mythology Aug 2014 #22
Feelings, mythology, are subjective. malthaussen Aug 2014 #23
Very good post marym625 Aug 2014 #27
i think what is interesting with the OP, is the exploration. seabeyond Aug 2014 #29
Great OP. k&r. nt sufrommich Aug 2014 #32
does that same illustration work hfojvt Aug 2014 #33
Don't see why it shouldn't apply to misandry, hfojvt. malthaussen Aug 2014 #36
"you can be a misogynist and not be a bad person" hfojvt Aug 2014 #38
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