Rumination on misogyny.

[malthaussen]

36. Don't see why it shouldn't apply to misandry, hfojvt.

Here's a point to consider, though. I see you are equating "you're misogynist" with "you are an evil, worthless bastard." Yeah, yeah, those words don't appear in your post. Let's not quibble. I'm a guy, remember? Been there, done that. Honest to bog, if you can get past the feeling that a challenge on misogyny does not equate to "Burn in Hell, Filthy Devil-Worshipper," you'll be a whole lot relieved and open the door to fruitful discussion.

Now, personally, I've been a guy for a lot of years, and I have certain reactions -- which I would normally not share in DU -- to some things. When a male poster claims misandry, I pretty much knee-jerk to "what tree did you fall out of?" Insensitive brute that I am. And then, even on reflection, I lean more towards "suck it up, you're a man." See, I'm actually an unreconstituted sexist. The irony here is I am quite sure most of the feminists around DU would never even be able to conceive of either reaction. Men are much harder on other men than women are. (The tyranny of the bell-curve applies, of course) And because of that, we often will ascribe to women a reaction which is not at all where they're coming from, but instead how we would react ourselves in the situation.

Take your example of the infamous list of misogynistic traits. A whole lot of people, presumably mostly acting in good faith and good will, have construed that as a means test. As you say, it translates to "Agree with me, or you are worse slime than Hitler and Stalin rolled together." But the text does not support that construction. Let's look at a direct quote: "Among the positions some feminists identify with sexism and misogyny are the following: "

"Among the positions" ie, this is a list of concerns, and not comprehensive. "some feminists," ie, not to be taken as a platform statement for feminism, "identify with sexism and misogyny..." ah, there's that problem again. The reader makes the leap: poster doesn't like sexism and misogyny, so if I don't agree with her, she hates me. You know, you can be sexist and misogynist and not be a bad person. Persisting in it, however, when called on it... well, that might just well be a different kettle of fish. Really, Hfojvt, what would you have had her do? Especially considering that the original "list" was a direct response to a question as to what positions were considered key issues to feminists?

I'll note one thing further, as a point of tactics. Rending the garments and heaping dust on one's head can often be interpreted as insincere. Which is sad, since I think it is more often a sign of insecurity. It becomes even worse, if one starts to believe his own rhetoric.

-- Mal