General Discussion

Starry Messenger

(32,379 posts)

35. Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, just trying to provide context.

Wed Sep 17, 2014, 08:52 AM

Sep 2014

My state had their tenure rights declared unconstitutional, which is going to be replicated in states all over the US. I guess everyone will see how great that will work out.

Hope everyone enjoys the new minimum wage teaching work force, based on the non-union service fast-food model that is coming.

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David Boies plans to strip teachers of due process rights state by state. [View all] madfloridian Sep 2014 OP

I'm reminded of the haunting song Jakes Progress Sep 2014 #1

OTOH my 7th grade science teacher told us the sun went around the earth Recursion Sep 2014 #2

Actually bad teachers CAN be fired. The admins must be ready, must document... madfloridian Sep 2014 #3

And in the 6 years it took the principal to exhaust her remediation options Recursion Sep 2014 #4

Mississippi has been a right-to-work state since 1960 Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #25

Not in the public schools (nt) Recursion Sep 2014 #28

The school unions are more like associations in RTW states. Not very strong. Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #33

Well, the union certainly kept that teacher from being fired for 6 years Recursion Sep 2014 #34

Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, just trying to provide context. Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #35

Mississippi was in a weird place Recursion Sep 2014 #37

It is an interesting pass at DU...the argument that a right at contract msanthrope Sep 2014 #40

Test scores are highest in the states with the strongest tenure laws and teachers unions. Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #41

Rich parents believe in those things Recursion Sep 2014 #43

Well. That seems rather a non-sequitor. Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #44

I call bs dsc Sep 2014 #98

And must do it repeatedly, over time, while spending resources to "help" the teacher. HuckleB Sep 2014 #62

In NY, it takes two Holt letters adigal Sep 2014 #78

I hope you don't mean that every teacher deserves their right to due process taken away BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #5

As I said, I think there's got to be a way to solve both problems Recursion Sep 2014 #6

There is BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #7

So let STEM people teach Recursion Sep 2014 #8

Agreed BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #9

Most MEd degrees now require content courses.... Sancho Sep 2014 #15

Is that true for primary and middle school as well BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #88

Actually, many MEd's for Elementary and Middle school degrees have LOTS of new stuff... Sancho Sep 2014 #91

I have two years, one month and 29 days left adigal Sep 2014 #80

Many schools have experience with this... Sancho Sep 2014 #20

So, you are implicitly saying teachers are bad. joeglow3 Sep 2014 #81

Um...no BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #84

Um...yes joeglow3 Sep 2014 #90

What I wrote is that the teaching profession can no longer attract certain fields that make more BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #93

I have always said we have plenty of bad teachers and need to pay more to attract greater talent joeglow3 Sep 2014 #104

It doesn't take 6 years, at least in PA wcast Sep 2014 #72

Well....that isn't the argument put forth by the Plaintiffs. If it was, I suspect msanthrope Sep 2014 #49

I'm trying to understand what you are saying. wcast Sep 2014 #73

I've been hearing these stories for a long time and I don't believe it.... Sancho Sep 2014 #13

Hi. You seem to be calling me a liar. Recursion Sep 2014 #14

I don't think you are a liar, but you may have limited experience with these things.... Sancho Sep 2014 #16

Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness hatrack Sep 2014 #21

Well said madfloridian Sep 2014 #26

My concreteness is quite specific here: my principal should have been able to fire her Recursion Sep 2014 #32

Did you ever think the principal was the more incompetent one in this situation? MohRokTah Sep 2014 #55

I did, in fact Recursion Sep 2014 #56

I disbelieve. MohRokTah Sep 2014 #58

Wow, I don't agree with you much, but spot on here. HERVEPA Sep 2014 #59

The principal, with the help of the principal's supervisor. Still, it doesn't happen, quite often. HuckleB Sep 2014 #82

The content of your posts elsewhere on DU brentspeak Sep 2014 #45

Are any of those posts false? Recursion Sep 2014 #46

Actually, yes brentspeak Sep 2014 #48

Which one? Recursion Sep 2014 #50

Sure you would. HERVEPA Sep 2014 #51

So... you won't say? Recursion Sep 2014 #52

I've seen bad teachers get passed from school to school. HuckleB Sep 2014 #63

There's something "fishy" about this story. ladjf Sep 2014 #29

Well, sorry I'm blowing up your theory with my facts Recursion Sep 2014 #30

If the school system hired a science teacher who knew nothing about science, it is the school ladjf Sep 2014 #36

OK, so let's take the "smoke screen" out of it Recursion Sep 2014 #38

what we should be assessing teachers by is questionseverything Sep 2014 #53

That might work to a certain extent. However, in most cases, the ladjf Sep 2014 #66

Is there any other field where you would say not to look at the outcomes? Recursion Sep 2014 #67

I didn't say to not look at the outcomes. I just didn't take the time to discuss everything ladjf Sep 2014 #68

I like the notion of "tenure" in the sense of academic freedom Recursion Sep 2014 #69

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Sep 2014 #10

These folks remind me of anti-vaxers and climate change deniers. blackspade Sep 2014 #11

Same group of idiots, different cause. Initech Sep 2014 #96

K&R.... secondwind Sep 2014 #12

Boies and similar groups are attacking tenure for purely political and profit reasons.... Sancho Sep 2014 #17

++++++++ BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #60

Just to make the point that Madfloridian has documented (thanks)!!! Sancho Sep 2014 #83

This teacher says "thank you" for all your excellent posts. kwassa Sep 2014 #110

Thanks for this Important news and sharing your experience! nt adirondacker Sep 2014 #18

The whole reform scam is not about education Teamster Jeff Sep 2014 #19

Indeed, they want to replace teachers with untrained people who make $10.10 an hour BuelahWitch Sep 2014 #22

Boom. Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #23

+1 leftstreet Sep 2014 #61

Yet a number of our so called moderates are going right along with it. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Sep 2014 #65

David Boies? The guy who helped Gore not win Florida? Octafish Sep 2014 #24

Yeah, *that* "superlawyer"!1 & GORE apparently hasn't learned, hired him for the Al Jezeera suit n/t UTUSN Sep 2014 #27

The guy who killed Prop 8? David Boies guaranteed the civil rights of msanthrope Sep 2014 #31

Looks like someone got their Daily Caller marching orders today n/t brentspeak Sep 2014 #74

Let's not mince words here, brent. Are you alleging that I, an Obama campaign msanthrope Sep 2014 #75

Those are not accusations I made. n/t brentspeak Sep 2014 #76

You accused me of taking marching orders from that bowtied motherfucker, msanthrope Sep 2014 #79

doesn't Steve Leser work for FOX News? nt grasswire Sep 2014 #85

No--Steve has appeared as a guest, but has his own radio show in NYC. You'd msanthrope Sep 2014 #89

an unpaid guest? grasswire Sep 2014 #102

I've never asked him. Why not PM him? nt msanthrope Sep 2014 #107

you're citing him as a cred. grasswire Sep 2014 #108

So did Ted Olsen dsc Sep 2014 #109

The problem with your OP is that it rests on a meme that is fallacious.... msanthrope Sep 2014 #39

no the op is saying that questionseverything Sep 2014 #70

Actually...the OP did no such thing. The OP's example indicates msanthrope Sep 2014 #71

It was reported. I reported it against the wishes of my principal. madfloridian Sep 2014 #97

You claim that it was your tenure that gave you more confidence to do what the law required. msanthrope Sep 2014 #99

"Why would that change for teachers under the proposed lawsuit?" madfloridian Sep 2014 #100

No..REALLY. Here is where you PROVE, with a primary source, either from the CA msanthrope Sep 2014 #101

Way to fight the right fight for the right. Jakes Progress Sep 2014 #105

When did the civil rights of children become subordinate to a property right? msanthrope Sep 2014 #106

When did you last take a civics course and where? Jakes Progress Sep 2014 #111

Jake...on another thread you obviously were angry with me for reminding you msanthrope Sep 2014 #112

You might carry your grudges around. Jakes Progress Sep 2014 #114

Again Jake....not sure why you kicked this thread from last week after msanthrope Sep 2014 #115

I can speak of being a teacher without due process rights. no_hypocrisy Sep 2014 #42

Substitute teachers are very vulnerable. madfloridian Sep 2014 #94

Makes one wonder how much his legal heart was in it when arguing for a Gore victory...... WinkyDink Sep 2014 #47

We need someone to bring a lawsuit against billionaires and corporation for Larkspur Sep 2014 #54

I support this idea! Initech Sep 2014 #103

never did trust that guy. n/t librechik Sep 2014 #57

^^^ nt grasswire Sep 2014 #86

DURec leftstreet Sep 2014 #64

I have failed 12th graders and had superintendents and parents threaten me adigal Sep 2014 #77

Applause for that post. madfloridian Sep 2014 #87

More Koch addiction becoming evident. deminks Sep 2014 #92

Another useful idiot of the upper 1%. Fuck him. Initech Sep 2014 #95

If you doubt teachers need tenure to deal with parents, check out this thread! Sancho Sep 2014 #113