General Discussion

gollygee

(22,336 posts)

195. That's the language they're taught with

Sun Sep 21, 2014, 10:05 PM

Sep 2014

My kindergartener, who has only been in kindergarten three weeks, recognized the term "subtraction sentence" (and also recognized the word "subtraction" was a mistake because it has a plus sign.) It's amazing how early kids are learning stuff like this - and also how early they learn to read (though my kindergartener is just a beginning reader, I have no doubt she'll be a strong reader by next year. I've been through this before with my older child and kids are really getting this stuff.)

It's certainly changed since I was a kid in the 70s.

The speicifc language is jargon, but it's jargon used in the classroom and familiar to kids. However there's a typo - it should say "addition" instead of "subtraction," so it isn't a good example. (And I can't imagine something with so few questions and corrected by hand is a standardized test. It's probably a classroom assignment.)

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How would you answer this test question? From a 1st grade Common Core test. [View all] madfloridian Sep 2014 OP

Like this: Iggo Sep 2014 #1

Here's an even CRAZIER example. Try this one. pnwmom Sep 2014 #275

Exactly! Sancho Sep 2014 #308

Critical thinking is ambiguous, hence the test would have to be ambiguous, AND orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #426

Actually, there are plenty of ways to study and teach critical thinking, creating thinking... Sancho Sep 2014 #435

How about Perspicacity? a word so descriptive and never used . orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #436

Perspicacity is one descriptor, but not a theory based on observation, research, or measurement. Sancho Sep 2014 #437

Thank you . orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #439

"...And so the I'm-bad-at-math game begins!" BuelahWitch Sep 2014 #315

I have one child who LOVED math and I am so glad pnwmom Sep 2014 #317

Thanks for sharing that example. madfloridian Sep 2014 #371

Did you notice the young perky blonde teacher using the word "algorithm" to her truedelphi Sep 2014 #432

When I commented (below) that it was an extremely poorly written test - Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #402

My guess would be B. Subtraction sentence? This isn't grammar, it's math. Common Core doesn't Louisiana1976 Sep 2014 #2

B is not subtraction. madfloridian Sep 2014 #4

Neither is A, C, or D. Curmudgeoness Sep 2014 #10

Exactly. madfloridian Sep 2014 #11

Yep. That's an addition problem. SheilaT Sep 2014 #41

Clearly, if one holds a open flame below possible answer D), answer E) "None of the above" appears. xocet Sep 2014 #277

..... madfloridian Sep 2014 #361

Did you count correctly? Skidmore Sep 2014 #8

This isn't "Common Core." LWolf Sep 2014 #174

This is true, to a point. The whole testing regime FlatStanley Sep 2014 #376

The whole testing regime LWolf Sep 2014 #387

Thats on a standardized test? WTF? SummerSnow Sep 2014 #3

Does it say it's a standardized test? Igel Sep 2014 #64

Watch the video. madfloridian Sep 2014 #76

The video does not explain where the question came from. Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #124

Here are 2 pages of that test. States it is from Pearson. It is a practice page, test prep madfloridian Sep 2014 #373

Thanks. I would not assume that it is an accurate reflection Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #384

Pearson is writing the whole damn test for many states. There should be no errors. madfloridian Sep 2014 #386

That is really sad. Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #396

On top of everything else, Pearson has been getting gag orders pnwmom Sep 2014 #403

I don't know how the questions are used - Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #404

Yes, they have their justifications -- but the bottom line is that there can be many poorly designed pnwmom Sep 2014 #405

If it is purely a copyright issue, Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #408

Didn't watch the video, did you? Not a teacher or an educator either I presume. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #406

C is the only one that corresponds to the illustration rocktivity Sep 2014 #5

C is not subtraction. madfloridian Sep 2014 #9

Apparently, subtraction doesn't exist anymore rocktivity Sep 2014 #17

I did that wayyyyy back in school, tried to teach my classmates and got in trouble with the teacher uppityperson Sep 2014 #20

Exactly!!!! sammytko Sep 2014 #390

Sorry - Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #407

And in this Number Family, daddy beat the shit out of Mommy... Atman Sep 2014 #32

But which train got there first? WinkyDink Sep 2014 #34

The one from Chicago. Atman Sep 2014 #36

DUZY! n/t DebJ Sep 2014 #225

MEANWHILE, EVERY OTHER SUBJECT ESCHEWS ACTUAL FACTS!! Irony, thy name is Common Core. WinkyDink Sep 2014 #33

Huh? Is a subtraction sentence the same as a COBOL sentence? nt valerief Sep 2014 #40

Well, yes, actually, thanks to the Turing-Church thesis and Goedel Recursion Sep 2014 #212

They're inverse operations. Igel Sep 2014 #78

Which is why we need this taught at the elementary level Recursion Sep 2014 #216

This particular question is not testing whether students understand the concept Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #401

"number fact" is key to seeing this............ wandy Sep 2014 #90

Your final sentence is better because the "correct" way is simply wrong. It's not a subtraction pnwmom Sep 2014 #271

About damn time Recursion Sep 2014 #214

I think what we are seeing here is ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #358

Wrong. I taught "new" math "old" math for decades. madfloridian Sep 2014 #397

With all due respect ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #398

Tell that to the districts and feds that keep calling what is old as new. madfloridian Sep 2014 #399

Not correct. Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #409

I completely agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #414

And, unfortunately, in math and science Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #415

I guess that is the point I was trying to make ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #416

With math (and to a lesser extent science), Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #420

But we should stop this discussion ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #422

That is old old math dressed up as new math. We taught that for years. Number families. madfloridian Sep 2014 #245

That is a brilliant post. joshcryer Sep 2014 #309

Oh my God of course it is Recursion Sep 2014 #211

The SUBTRACTION equivalent to 4+3=7 would have a minus sign. madfloridian Sep 2014 #215

4 + 3 = 7 is equivalent to a pair of subtraction sentences Recursion Sep 2014 #217

They asked for a subtraction equivalent, there is not one there. madfloridian Sep 2014 #219

Then why are you acting like "4 + 3 = 7" doesn't express a subtractive identity? Recursion Sep 2014 #223

First off we're talking about 5-7 year old kids in American schools azurnoir Sep 2014 #244

About a third of the kids I've tutored (generally 8 - 10 years old) were taught to do that Recursion Sep 2014 #248

again kids you're tutoring azurnoir Sep 2014 #251

Yes, it was in the schools in my neighborhood in DC Recursion Sep 2014 #252

How recently was this? this year last year? azurnoir Sep 2014 #256

from, oh, 2009 to 2013 the most recent time Recursion Sep 2014 #258

so from 2004 they were teaching kids to think of numbers in this manner? azurnoir Sep 2014 #261

I was tutoring older kids then; this experience was from last year Recursion Sep 2014 #262

It isn't that it is clunky Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #411

Only a pair...? xocet Sep 2014 #267

And a first grader could think through this process? DebJ Sep 2014 #272

Of course not. I was just asking the other poster about the earlier claim. xocet Sep 2014 #279

Whew. Thanks. Given some of the other comments, I wasn't sure what you DebJ Sep 2014 #281

Hey, no problem. Education is important, and reading this thread has been very interesting. n/t xocet Sep 2014 #290

You're even more creative than I was! Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #412

You can create 4 related subtraction sentences. Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #410

But how were the other groups of numbers not also part of the subtraction method?? - truedelphi Sep 2014 #434

None of them are. They're not sentences either. JVS Sep 2014 #297

..... madfloridian Sep 2014 #299

Subtraction can be seen as a form of addition if you consider negative numbers karynnj Sep 2014 #385

First grade? (Must be the topics covered in April or May, well after everyone saw Spot run) . . . Journeyman Sep 2014 #6

I'm pretty sure that 95% of them just take a guess. Art_from_Ark Sep 2014 #316

Assuming this is English, I'd say, "None of the above." immoderate Sep 2014 #7

I'd say, "Subtract THIS." WinkyDink Sep 2014 #37

people jumped down my throat for pointing out that Common Core math is funky Man from Pickens Sep 2014 #84

"Kids aren't learning" Recursion Sep 2014 #241

dumbing down the test does not indicate increased learning Man from Pickens Sep 2014 #285

Writing scores are much, much higher today than 20 years ago Recursion Sep 2014 #289

Something is odd in those numbers Man from Pickens Sep 2014 #360

Because the race/ethnicity breakdown is an improper partition Recursion Sep 2014 #374

Part of common core was trying to deal with people like me. jeff47 Sep 2014 #381

Great post thank you. madfloridian Sep 2014 #400

I would answer it how the kid answered it on the test gollygee Sep 2014 #12

Well, subtraction is taught in the classroom as the opposite of addition. madfloridian Sep 2014 #14

Yeah but I think it's a typo gollygee Sep 2014 #15

It's testing problem. By some company that is making millions of education. madfloridian Sep 2014 #22

DING DING DING! Madfloridian, you're our grand prize winner! rocktivity Sep 2014 #26

Are you sure that you applied the rubric correctly in scoring that? xocet Sep 2014 #304

Companies made money off the old system of testing and teaching too. gollygee Sep 2014 #42

That was once or twice a year and did not determine a child's future. madfloridian Sep 2014 #44

I'm opposed to tests being used in that way gollygee Sep 2014 #46

I expressly said I was not against standards, just the way they are tested. madfloridian Sep 2014 #49

You used what looks like a typo as an example gollygee Sep 2014 #55

Did you watch the video? madfloridian Sep 2014 #57

Yes gollygee Sep 2014 #58

How are kids supposed to get an answer right if the testers can't get the valerief Sep 2014 #82

Yeah well the proofreaders are an issue gollygee Sep 2014 #98

Where was the typo? What I saw was an awful, disastrous and confusing attempt to sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #104

Read the subthread before responding gollygee Sep 2014 #106

I have read the subthread and see that two people, MF and Rocktivity got it right. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #113

There still is no national standardized testing until 3rd grade. kwassa Sep 2014 #180

Are you trying to tell us that NCLB or Common Core is optional? Tell that to the teachers sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #221

The districts my kids have attended in do pre-tests in kindergarden, first, and second grades azurnoir Sep 2014 #250

I agree that this is all about profits for the testing corporations. Same with mass drug testing.n/t pnwmom Sep 2014 #210

Yes, exactly. Drug testing has made some people obscenely wealthy. As has NCLB/Common Core or sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #231

I realized I forgot one other reason. They want to prove the public schools pnwmom Sep 2014 #269

Yes, absolutely. Privatization of everything, education, SS, all of these programs sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #341

Well said and +1! Enthusiast Sep 2014 #312

Not 'understand', memorize the 'rules'. That is not understanding math. It is worse than sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #73

Obviously, I can't do math. Curmudgeoness Sep 2014 #13

Are we allowed to say "this is a very bad question"? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #16

Yes, yes indeed they would in fact be that proscriptive about illustration. DeadLetterOffice Sep 2014 #185

All of the options are sentences; Common Core doesn't address testing Recursion Sep 2014 #228

As I said in #153, 'sentence' appears to be new jargon muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #310

That's ridiculous Recursion Sep 2014 #322

And yet, many DUers haven't heard it, and neither have those reference books muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #330

Well it's new jargon gollygee Sep 2014 #353

They are sentences Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #413

My answer would be...When's recess? Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2014 #18

"hire a better editor/proofreader" justabob Sep 2014 #19

I believe the low quality may be deliberate Man from Pickens Sep 2014 #95

whether deliberate, or simply incompetent justabob Sep 2014 #103

Subtraction sentence? sakabatou Sep 2014 #21

seems like an odd question for a math test hfojvt Sep 2014 #23

Thank GOODness for Carol Burris (again!) elleng Sep 2014 #24

She is very impressive and intelligent in that video. madfloridian Sep 2014 #54

Yes she is, elleng Sep 2014 #130

ONCE AGAIN, Common Core is ONLY about selling common text books to a mass market. Atman Sep 2014 #25

very plausible. nt navarth Sep 2014 #139

There's nothing wrong with this. It's just out of context. nolabear Sep 2014 #27

Me either... Tikki Sep 2014 #28

Absurd. Atman Sep 2014 #29

Thank you, yes, it's a travesty. madfloridian Sep 2014 #45

But perhaps not if you had been in the class. nolabear Sep 2014 #83

Do you not see how confusing this might be to a child who at some point in the future chervilant Sep 2014 #160

What's wrong with associating the plus sign with subtraction? Recursion Sep 2014 #226

What I want to see in 15 years, though, is will these kids know if they get the right change back DebJ Sep 2014 #239

You don't count change *up* from the purchase price? Recursion Sep 2014 #240

Doesn't matter if it is 'up' or 'down', the point is, DebJ Sep 2014 #249

Excellent point. chervilant Sep 2014 #356

The problem with your approach is people like me. jeff47 Sep 2014 #382

Of course, everyone's brain works a bit differently from everyone else's. DebJ Sep 2014 #388

The goal, IMO, should be to understand why it's the right answer jeff47 Sep 2014 #389

From what I've seen tutoring, chervilant Sep 2014 #331

+1 laundry_queen Sep 2014 #86

Yes! It is not a valid question! n/t callous taoboy Sep 2014 #140

Whats absurd is the pretense that common core standards made this test question mandatory Egnever Sep 2014 #188

Subtraction is addition. In fact, addition of unknowns is a better way to do subtraction problems. Recursion Sep 2014 #205

The kids you teach are lucky Egnever Sep 2014 #362

OK, I'll say it: this looks to me like potentially quite a good approach to teaching. Donald Ian Rankin Sep 2014 #305

What context is there for calling addition subtraction? DireStrike Sep 2014 #75

"related"... Tikki Sep 2014 #94

Why not just use the word "addition" instead of "related subtraction"? DireStrike Sep 2014 #97

In some grades they will be taught straight math language and in other grades they start the brain.. Tikki Sep 2014 #101

Except the same test, page 2, uses the standard definition for a subtraction sentence. pnwmom Sep 2014 #300

"Addition fact" would make it a valid question for this grade level. callous taoboy Sep 2014 #142

subtraction can be expressed as addition with a negative number. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #165

Not applicable to the question and answers being discussed Dragonfli Sep 2014 #197

I was responding to the post asking how addition and subtraction could be conflated. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #327

Looking at it again and reading elsewhere, it's clearly a typo. nolabear Sep 2014 #92

Watching the video I'm leaning towards a typo now too, though I've tutored kids who are taught Recursion Sep 2014 #238

Page three of the homework has a similar thing: joshcryer Sep 2014 #333

There is no correct answer here, but you choose the best answer available itsrobert Sep 2014 #30

So the "best answer available" is a wrong one? That is NOT okay. madfloridian Sep 2014 #56

In life, the correct answer is not always there for you. itsrobert Sep 2014 #91

Now that response is the best I ever heard. No correct answer, just make do. LOL madfloridian Sep 2014 #96

No shit! Suck it up, first grader new to math newbie loser :/ callous taoboy Sep 2014 #143

That statement is supposed to have added to it: EXCEPT MATH. DebJ Sep 2014 #232

But this is a test, you know, something that is supposedly 100% accurate. Rex Sep 2014 #440

Kind of like a US election, in other words IDemo Sep 2014 #65

IDGI. Are we supposed to look at the bar and see 4 filled-in squares and 3 not, to get (C.)? WinkyDink Sep 2014 #31

Which is why the country should have adopted Mass' framework and test MannyGoldstein Sep 2014 #35

and Gates Foundation had already screwed up with the untested New Schools Initiative zazen Sep 2014 #110

1st Grade? Do 1st graders even understand the words in the question and what the sentence actually madinmaryland Sep 2014 #38

Yes they do and if they don't, at least where I live, there is a tiered Kindergarten and an... Tikki Sep 2014 #184

That's the language they're taught with gollygee Sep 2014 #195

If Noah built an ark 300 cubits by 50 cubits, how many dinosaurs would fit on the Promanade Deck? Atman Sep 2014 #39

Trick question. It's Promenade. nt valerief Sep 2014 #47

We're targeting future Tea Partiers.. IDemo Sep 2014 #69

My bad. If that's the case, then I know the answer. valerief Sep 2014 #87

"How many brains does a moran got?" Atman Sep 2014 #107

A Repubican would never write "gub'mit." S/he'd write "govrement." nt valerief Sep 2014 #123

Benghazi! That's the answer to every question. n/t DebJ Sep 2014 #236

A+ Johnny. Atman Sep 2014 #105

makes perfect sense to me. mopinko Sep 2014 #43

I taught number families. I never misrepresented subtraction as addition. madfloridian Sep 2014 #52

The words "George Orwell" keep flashing in my brain. n /t DebJ Sep 2014 #243

Wow, this one really drew the supporters of "reform". Support anything madfloridian opposes. madfloridian Sep 2014 #48

SInce you oppose everything that is whistler162 Sep 2014 #438

The correct answer, of course, is C. MineralMan Sep 2014 #50

Oh, come on now. It asks for a subtraction sentence. There are none. madfloridian Sep 2014 #51

No, it asks which is an equivalent subtraction sentence. MineralMan Sep 2014 #68

Oh, gee, that is way above my level of understanding. madfloridian Sep 2014 #71

Perhaps it is. I'd have no way of knowing. MineralMan Sep 2014 #175

FYI...my kid is taught two strategies (at least) per math concept. It's a way msanthrope Sep 2014 #282

I think that's very good. MineralMan Sep 2014 #337

That's what I think many critics of Common Core get stuck on--at least, from the critiques msanthrope Sep 2014 #340

Well, some people see Common Core as one more step MineralMan Sep 2014 #357

It asks for a subtraction sentence. It does not present any. immoderate Sep 2014 #100

it is a typo dude questionseverything Sep 2014 #118

Check out the article Lonusca Sep 2014 #159

It makes perfect sense to me. jen63 Sep 2014 #122

It asks which is "a related subtraction sentence", not "related to a relevant subtraction sentence" muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #153

It clearly asked for a "related subtraction sentence". CANDO Sep 2014 #79

Okay then. madfloridian Sep 2014 #80

I undertsand your frustration. CANDO Sep 2014 #89

I taught new math, old math, then new math again. Please do not talk down to me. madfloridian Sep 2014 #99

Not talking down to you. CANDO Sep 2014 #109

They should then have asked for an answer related to same number family. madfloridian Sep 2014 #137

Madfloridian: You understand young kids. Case closed. callous taoboy Sep 2014 #149

Maybe the kids are conditioned enough to tests... TygrBright Sep 2014 #163

Schools use the blocks pictured every day in school these days gollygee Sep 2014 #173

So? None of the equations constituted a subtraction sentence. nt pnwmom Sep 2014 #209

Yes, and as a number of people said, that appeared to be a typo gollygee Sep 2014 #218

Stupid question. None of the equations constitute a "subtraction sentence." pnwmom Sep 2014 #207

C is the correct answer Lil Missy Sep 2014 #53

Wrong. C is not a subtraction sentence; it is an addition sentence. pnwmom Sep 2014 #213

And the monkey wrapped his tail around the pole ....... Lil Missy Sep 2014 #230

It's about teaching critical thinking. CANDO Sep 2014 #59

It asks specifically for a subtraction problem. madfloridian Sep 2014 #62

No. It asked for a "related subtraction sentence". CANDO Sep 2014 #85

" It is an obvious semi-trick question to get students to T H I N K." madfloridian Sep 2014 #88

It teaches them to realize that they must understand the specific jargon, and when new standards and DebJ Sep 2014 #242

Especially bunk for a first grader n/t BuelahWitch Sep 2014 #319

I wasn't stumped by the equation. I was stumped by the phrasing of the question. magical thyme Sep 2014 #72

A critical thinking question based on the picture might look like this DireStrike Sep 2014 #81

See my posts on "related subtraction sentence". CANDO Sep 2014 #102

It depends what is being taught and at what level DireStrike Sep 2014 #112

Well said. And I wonder if the implementation process is the same in other areas DebJ Sep 2014 #253

I think there's a grammatical problem. The phrase is suffering from a modifier traffic jam RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #147

You are aware that children this age don't "think" the way adults do? Sancho Sep 2014 #227

Wait a minute, you mean teaching involves little human beings? Not widgets? n/t DebJ Sep 2014 #270

Yep! Sancho Sep 2014 #307

Whoever gave 5th rec...thanks. But now I am in the wrong for saying the item is faulty. madfloridian Sep 2014 #60

And are you sure it was indeed the fifth rec? truedelphi Sep 2014 #433

My 2nd graders knew the difference between addition and subtraction. madfloridian Sep 2014 #61

Then they are wrong. This test insures that kids do NOT know the difference which must be the goal. Kablooie Sep 2014 #70

Amazing. I am wrong. 2nd graders are wrong. Yet there is still no minus sign. madfloridian Sep 2014 #93

Just shows that your kids are smarter than the people who devised the common core test. Kablooie Sep 2014 #119

There is a "common core test"? Recursion Sep 2014 #254

I also teach 2nd grade: It's a poorly worded question, i.e. not valid: callous taoboy Sep 2014 #132

You do all realize the children are taught this first 4dsc Sep 2014 #63

Yes, I am often called simple-minded here. madfloridian Sep 2014 #66

How are they taught this. Do elucidate. callous taoboy Sep 2014 #134

Like this Egnever Sep 2014 #191

And of course they have done extensive work with small numbers in first grade???? DebJ Sep 2014 #257

Yeah, a lot of people seem to forget this is a question for first graders...n/t BuelahWitch Sep 2014 #392

Even my privately schooled pecwae Oct 2014 #447

You are wrong about students being taught "like this".... Sancho Sep 2014 #323

Wish I could recommend this a thousand times adigal Sep 2014 #363

The question is not a valid one. callous taoboy Sep 2014 #359

Tell that to my elementary school kid. DeadLetterOffice Sep 2014 #186

The answer is no. "Which" is a word, not a sentence. Kablooie Sep 2014 #67

So now we have come to calling retired teachers simple-minded.... madfloridian Sep 2014 #74

Yes, there should be standards, but the common core is proving to be an overreach. Plain and simple. RBInMaine Sep 2014 #77

Last week I was substitute teaching 3rd grade LibDemAlways Sep 2014 #108

"pulling the numbers apart"... thesquanderer Sep 2014 #133

Ding ding ding ding.... callous taoboy Sep 2014 #138

Except when borrowing or as it's called nowadays LibDemAlways Sep 2014 #151

No need to "regroup" when callous taoboy Sep 2014 #166

Here's how I'd do it in my head thesquanderer Sep 2014 #167

That strikes me as a lot of steps. Instead of LibDemAlways Sep 2014 #169

And I agree. I had second graders in regular ed. callous taoboy Sep 2014 #170

Exactly! BECAUSE IT IS ON THE TEST. Not because it is helpful to them, or necessary to learn, DebJ Sep 2014 #260

To me, it's not about "steps" at all thesquanderer Sep 2014 #190

Estimate then refine Recursion Sep 2014 #202

And as someone posted a few months ago- callous taoboy Sep 2014 #171

I was sad that that question caught so much flak here on DU Recursion Sep 2014 #233

This is a way of avoiding borrowing Recursion Sep 2014 #201

That is how i always did it sammytko Sep 2014 #393

What you're describing is how I subtract large numbers in my head Recursion Sep 2014 #199

As a first grader, I couldn't because of the too-advanced 'tricks and traps' language. BAD question. ancianita Sep 2014 #111

THIS is a first grade test question ? steve2470 Sep 2014 #114

I've been shocked at what age kids are learning stuff Recursion Sep 2014 #255

Funny, all I see in the news are failing schools, in insane numbers. DebJ Sep 2014 #276

Crazy, isn't it? Almost like people have a vested interest in encouraging a state of constant panic Recursion Sep 2014 #284

So please show me the good numbers that you refer to. DebJ Sep 2014 #288

Happy to Recursion Sep 2014 #296

You are right that schools are doing a better job over the last few decades. But... Sancho Sep 2014 #329

Thanks. Wish I could equate graduation with educated, though. DebJ Sep 2014 #366

Some smart fart once told me "If ya don't know the answer, pick C." MADem Sep 2014 #115

Yes......MineralMan above explained it perfectly. nt msanthrope Sep 2014 #136

On the CC test at the link below, can someone tell me... valerief Sep 2014 #116

Question 1 is 14, it's explaining the method given by a poster above mythology Sep 2014 #189

Thanks, but I have some issues with this. valerief Sep 2014 #200

Mad Floridian, one huge problem LibDemAlways Sep 2014 #117

When I was in first grade... steve2470 Sep 2014 #120

That blew me away. Can 1st graders actually read this well? valerief Sep 2014 #127

Here's a 1st grade reading worksheet Recursion Sep 2014 #246

"Beth's problem is that she thinks playing cowbell is an acceptable role in a rock band..." muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #318

Duzy!! missingthebigdog Sep 2014 #383

yes, kids have to practically read by kinder sammytko Sep 2014 #394

Oh and high school kids are taking college courses before they even finish high school sammytko Sep 2014 #395

4 - (-3) = 4 + 3 = 7. FlatStanley Sep 2014 #121

Because every 6 year old comprehends fully negative numbers! n/t DebJ Sep 2014 #268

My father was teaching ordinary third graders FlatStanley Sep 2014 #303

That was a beautiful arrangement: to teach the same group of kids for four years! Perfect! DebJ Sep 2014 #368

It was very fortunate, indeed. My dad wanted to pilot FlatStanley Sep 2014 #375

"Which is a related addition sentence" Sunlei Sep 2014 #125

Like This! alphafemale Sep 2014 #126

Good one! DebJ Sep 2014 #283

Sorry but I am actually a TEACHER...not a Monday night quarterback..... chillfactor Sep 2014 #128

Me, too. (n/t) Iggo Sep 2014 #335

One of the fascinating things about this example is that it ignores what we know about children! Sancho Sep 2014 #129

Amen! And assuming knowledgable experienced teachers will be in charter schools....Ha! DebJ Sep 2014 #265

I showed it to my fifth grader....she and I picked "C." msanthrope Sep 2014 #131

Yes, you are not understanding. tabasco Sep 2014 #141

What did we miss? Inversion is a pretty basic concept. I'm kind of msanthrope Sep 2014 #162

it is a typo questionseverything Sep 2014 #365

Ok I finally showed it to my kindergartener, though she can't read all that well gollygee Sep 2014 #168

You've caught the problem perfectly...education has changed, and for the better. msanthrope Sep 2014 #187

Since as you say, "education has changed, and for the better" DebJ Sep 2014 #280

+1! Enthusiast Sep 2014 #313

I would ask the OP why no time is spent posting msanthrope Sep 2014 #321

You aren't missing anything. Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #324

Not just DU. I am married to a teacher, friends with teachers, DebJ Sep 2014 #369

Because Americans like to crap on themselves. joshcryer Sep 2014 #334

I haven't seen nearly as many complaints about education as I saw 20 years ago. gollygee Sep 2014 #431

Given that C is the only answer using 4 and 3... malthaussen Sep 2014 #135

I was good at catching on to reading in first grade . . . Brigid Sep 2014 #144

imho the question, even clearly written, is too advanced for a first grader steve2470 Sep 2014 #145

Yep. I remember that too. Brigid Sep 2014 #146

So was I, it was taught with "Dick and Jane" books WHEN CRABS ROAR Sep 2014 #154

Just even looking at this gives me that sick feeling cwydro Sep 2014 #148

That is obviously a typo/proofreading error on an untested test. DamnYankeeInHouston Sep 2014 #150

Yes! Standardized tests can be hell for people capable of divergent thinking. n/t RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #157

D..if you subtract 5 from 8 you get 3. n/t Bonhomme Richard Sep 2014 #152

Tony the Tiger was a question's subject on my sophomore child's common core test! Dont call me Shirley Sep 2014 #155

Would someone who understands this math theory please explain to me... TygrBright Sep 2014 #156

Well gollygee Sep 2014 #181

Or they're just teaching subtraction as addition, which I've seen Recursion Sep 2014 #206

Yeah that's possible gollygee Sep 2014 #220

Obviously what the kids were taught makes a huge difference in whether this is a good question Recursion Sep 2014 #222

She seems to be right, and the question made a mistake by putting subtraction instead of addition Chathamization Sep 2014 #229

Umm... a block 7 units long is divided by color into sub-blocks of 4 and 3 Recursion Sep 2014 #204

I didn't associate the blocks with the question at all. My bad, I guess... n/t TygrBright Sep 2014 #235

Huh? Recursion Sep 2014 #237

Nope. Got no connection at all between the blobby line of squares and the math question. n/t TygrBright Sep 2014 #273

Dont ask me how but jamzrockz Sep 2014 #158

42 n/t IDemo Sep 2014 #161

First, they're looking for addition; second, an ivory tower wonk wrote the question Warpy Sep 2014 #164

Bad question. LWolf Sep 2014 #172

The words are English Turbineguy Sep 2014 #176

A because all are related in some fashion to the #2 riversedge Sep 2014 #177

7-3=4 Dems to Win Sep 2014 #178

Yes, it should have a subtraction sign. madfloridian Sep 2014 #179

No. Addition and subtraction are equivalent Recursion Sep 2014 #203

Oh wow thank God for grown-ups like you. madfloridian Sep 2014 #263

It works out better for some people if the parents aren't able to help their children. DebJ Sep 2014 #287

I'm distracted by the stupid illustration. Demit Sep 2014 #182

It's not unidentifiable to that age group gollygee Sep 2014 #183

LOL! Just as I thought! Connecting blocks are used on circuit boards, etc Demit Sep 2014 #192

LOL gollygee Sep 2014 #194

I remember the spec sheets of one of those Recursion Sep 2014 #259

Again, what's old is new. We had manipulatives for quadratic equations in 1982 as 2nd-graders Recursion Sep 2014 #208

We didn't have ones that connected gollygee Sep 2014 #224

This is based on Montessori manipulatives. kwassa Sep 2014 #379

I would start by reading the instructions that are not pictured. n/t Gore1FL Sep 2014 #193

So there was an error on a single test somewhere in America. Hell, there are probable other errors Chathamization Sep 2014 #196

Legos! Rex Sep 2014 #198

Most First graders can't read & comprehend those words. southerncrone Sep 2014 #234

"If your student loan debt is $75,000..." Atman Sep 2014 #247

Looks just like my son's 1st grade work. RandySF Sep 2014 #264

C. Using manipulatives and looking at a problem more than one way. LeftyMom Sep 2014 #266

They asked for a subtraction problem. There is not one. It's misleading and just plain wrong. madfloridian Sep 2014 #278

The question tests understanding that a problem can be seen more than one way. LeftyMom Sep 2014 #286

I taught these methods for over 30 years. These are first graders, concrete thinkers. madfloridian Sep 2014 #291

You didn't teach that a subtraction problem can be rephrased as addition? LeftyMom Sep 2014 #292

Oh, come on now. Of course that was taught. madfloridian Sep 2014 #301

interesting- it reminded me of using an abacus, which I needed to in order to grasp math. bettyellen Sep 2014 #293

Exactly. Or counting back change. nt LeftyMom Sep 2014 #294

Tell me about it- I lost $ 9.05 in poker last night. My cash out of $1.95 reveals I had originally bettyellen Sep 2014 #295

Now picture the unfortunate first grader exposed to a test full of this idiocy. n/t pnwmom Sep 2014 #274

Did Sarah Palin frame the question because it makes no sense? Cleita Sep 2014 #298

Proof that it's a stupid mistake, not some high-level kind of reasoning. pnwmom Sep 2014 #302

I think I'm with Recursion on this one. joshcryer Sep 2014 #306

Except on page 2 of the same test they use the term "subtraction sentence" pnwmom Sep 2014 #311

How can you subtract 5 cookies from a cup of liquid? Demit Sep 2014 #320

This is "set of cookies dunked in milk and eaten." joshcryer Sep 2014 #325

Wow, I'm supposed to deduce that from that illustration??? Demit Sep 2014 #336

You're thinking like an adult. joshcryer Sep 2014 #339

But you wouldn't be by your nephew's side if he encountered this on a test. pnwmom Sep 2014 #344

How did you guess that? I honestly thought they were coins. pnwmom Sep 2014 #343

pnwmom, I was the one who thought they were cookies. Demit Sep 2014 #370

And think about all the ESL kids who thought they at least could do math problems pnwmom Sep 2014 #372

You also have to understand that "cookies and milk" might be culturally loaded... Sancho Sep 2014 #332

Plus, the symbol for a serving of milk would be a glass, not a mug. Demit Sep 2014 #338

Kids deserve the highest quality work in tests like this, since they're being used pnwmom Sep 2014 #346

This test isn't gollygee Sep 2014 #349

Not all standardized tests are graded by computers anymore, especially common core tests. pnwmom Sep 2014 #351

Not the written portions gollygee Sep 2014 #352

And math is treated the same way. Half of it depends on reading skills now, pnwmom Sep 2014 #354

Absolutely. My son got a bunch of questions wrong on a reading test pnwmom Sep 2014 #345

That's funny. I thought they were nickels. pnwmom Sep 2014 #342

I wonder if it's more clear in the original gollygee Sep 2014 #350

No, because a principal at the school that pointed this out pnwmom Sep 2014 #355

It is absolutely baffling, I was stunned to see these. joshcryer Sep 2014 #328

New ways of teaching, learning, explaining, and illustrating ideas are as old as Socrates.... Sancho Sep 2014 #364

Now to ME a subtraction *sentence* would go something like BuelahWitch Sep 2014 #314

A recipe for frustration? stage left Sep 2014 #326

Odometer? Octafish Sep 2014 #347

Best post of the thread. nt msanthrope Sep 2014 #348

Probably like this: B2G Sep 2014 #367

That makes my think meat in my bone bucket work underpants Sep 2014 #377

KNR pscot Sep 2014 #378

common core sucks for kids that are good at math. Vattel Sep 2014 #380

"C", but would not be comfortable with it fadedrose Sep 2014 #391

Hmmm, I wanted to get mad about this, but it makes sense. cbdo2007 Sep 2014 #417

The item ASKED for a subtraction problem. madfloridian Sep 2014 #418

It isn't a numbers question, it is a logic question. cbdo2007 Sep 2014 #419

"Just because you don't get it doesn't mean people are getting "tricked". LOL" madfloridian Sep 2014 #423

wow. I can't believe how blindly people will follow Obama's policies. liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #421

The OP makes it clear I was a teacher. But I still got talked down to all through the thread. madfloridian Sep 2014 #424

education clearly is no where on the radar screen of democrats which is a deal breaker for me. liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #425

Republicans believe in Education ? orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #427

socialists do. And don't give me that if I vote for a socialist I guarantee a republican wins crap. liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #428

FDR was a socialist, and Bush wasn't a fascist, Sure . And thank socialists orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #429

You can say whatever you like. It will not change my vote. liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #430

I wonder why half the people replying simply cannot fathom a test question being incorrect? Rex Sep 2014 #441

I wonder if a banker came up with this question. liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #442

It's questionable whether it was a stupid mistake, or a purposeful mistake. Mc Mike Sep 2014 #443

An experienced teacher would recognize this Android3.14 Oct 2014 #444

The standards themselves are not the problem jmowreader Oct 2014 #445

The standards are part of the problem. The whole system is the problem. Did you see liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #446