General Discussion

saras

(6,670 posts)

15. When you START with namecalling, A. no one listens to you, and B. you lose by default.

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:27 PM

Apr 2012

I don't think any OTHER argument is necessary.

It's possible, and sensible, to think that industrial-scale transportation causes more harm to humanity as a whole than it provides benefit.

One of the major harms it provides is a monolithic dominating culture that has wired in short-term profit and exploitation as fundamental values, even deeper than those of the individuals that make up the culture. Merely resisting consumerism as a Westerner doesn't actually do anything to stop consumerism from consuming resources.

So, basically, you're arguing a trivial legalism about twenty steps down a path of which I reject the original premises... not a fruitful discussion.

What "people" want is, to me, barely meaningful at all if they've been programmed with media since childhood. Any more than someone who was locked in a closet their entire childhood is a good model of human language.

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For our isolationistic nationalism loving DU'ers who want the world to be a bigger place [View all] RB TexLa Apr 2012 OP

Do you realize that most people have no clue who you're talking about? brooklynite Apr 2012 #1

Do you realize that every other nation is protecting its' markets? Vincardog Apr 2012 #2

No, most people want to connect with the bigger market. It's just a few that look down on people RB TexLa Apr 2012 #3

Hmm you should look at for example, the GERMAN MARKET nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #5

Elaborate please. dkf Apr 2012 #7

They do not call it that way nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #8

Very interesting. dkf Apr 2012 #9

Because it might give Americans ideas nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #10

Funny we may have designed a better way to do things just not here. dkf Apr 2012 #11

Germany had multi-payer prior to any World War. HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #69

Yes, but I m talking of the modern system nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #77

but Germany's isn't single payer, is it? Vattel Apr 2012 #130

Imports are 44.9% of the German economy, 14.6% of the US economy. pampango Apr 2012 #14

Facts are good... SidDithers Apr 2012 #20

How many of those nations are running a $46B monthly trade deficit? Zalatix Apr 2012 #29

None of them which goes to show healthy economies don't have to focus on limiting imports. pampango Apr 2012 #86

Germany's VAT refunds and tariffs on American cars are but a small sample of their protectionism. Zalatix Apr 2012 #93

It would be interesting to know the percentages of raw goods/resources exported and imported suffragette Apr 2012 #59

No, it isn't? Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #33

I'd like to see you give up your job to an immigrant or a poor Chinese worker Zalatix Apr 2012 #52

I'm sorry you can't read Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #54

You're the one with reading comprehension problems here. Zalatix Apr 2012 #56

H1B visa holders are not immigrants Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #60

Germany refunds the VAT for domestic products. The tariff issue is relevant. Zalatix Apr 2012 #61

No, they don't Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #64

Are you saying that the American Plan to protect American jobs and markets thru tariffs that worked Vincardog Apr 2012 #6

If every other country had tariffs in the post-WWII world mythology Apr 2012 #12

Most other countries DID have tariffs in the post WWII world Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #17

Every other country was bombed back to the stone age in WWII. Get your facts straight. Vincardog Apr 2012 #80

Your "looking down on other people" argument is really silly Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #18

Pretty much. JoeyT Apr 2012 #27

Most people want jobs. Foreign markets hate America and won't take our goods. Zalatix Apr 2012 #25

At least 13% of a $14T economy is exports. They don't want our goods RB TexLa Apr 2012 #31

We're running a $46 trade deficit MONTHLY. You won't respond to that. Zalatix Apr 2012 #32

There is nothing wrong with that. We have more money so of course we are going to consume more RB TexLa Apr 2012 #34

There is nothing wrong with losing 500 billion dollars a year? Are you insane? Elwood P Dowd Apr 2012 #37

People get something for the money they spend on imports. RB TexLa Apr 2012 #38

I don't think you have a clue. Elwood P Dowd Apr 2012 #41

I understand you want to make sure the US the 1% of the world keeps all that money. RB TexLa Apr 2012 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author Elwood P Dowd Apr 2012 #44

And I understand you want to give away our jobs AND our money to anyone not American Elwood P Dowd Apr 2012 #45

Do you understand the basic relationship between the trade deficit and the national debt? Zalatix Apr 2012 #46

Perhaps you can explain it, so that people can take you seriously mathematic Apr 2012 #70

The trade deficit adds to the national debt. Basic law of economics. Zalatix Apr 2012 #76

YOU have not explained it. You've merely linked an article you've misunderstood mathematic Apr 2012 #88

Here's the facts. Facts, being something you do not have. Zalatix Apr 2012 #89

Nice to see you're backing off your claim mathematic Apr 2012 #99

Nice to see that you're twisting yourself in a very confused knot. Zalatix Apr 2012 #102

You = not fooling anyone. nt Union Scribe Apr 2012 #65

Him = Still here. HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #98

Hardly Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #35

Then you are ignorant of our $46 billion monthly trade deficit. Zalatix Apr 2012 #48

Really? Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #49

The Euro is way, way down. Germany's running a trade surplus with us, too. Zalatix Apr 2012 #50

The Euro is at $1.30 and has been in the range of $1.28-1.35. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #53

You left out the fact that Germany slaps big tariffs on US products... such as cars. Zalatix Apr 2012 #55

They also hit many of our products with a 20-30% VAT. If a German firm manufacturers the same or Elwood P Dowd Apr 2012 #57

Oh that's another important fact. But here's the most hilarious part about this argument Zalatix Apr 2012 #58

Germany has import duties of 10% on VEHICLES. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #62

YOUR reading comprehension issues made you blind to the fact that Zalatix Apr 2012 #63

Foreign markets don't hate America. They buy plenty of our stuff. The US is the world's #2 exporter. pampango Apr 2012 #36

We run a $46 billion monthly deficit. Do you understand what this means? Zalatix Apr 2012 #47

I was responding to your post that "foreign markets hate America". That's wrong. I'm glad you've pampango Apr 2012 #100

If they did want our goods, as you claim, our exports would be far higher. Zalatix Apr 2012 #103

OK. We're the world's second largest exporter but "they" don't want our goods. pampango Apr 2012 #107

We have the largest trade deficit in the history of humanity. Reality, pampango. nt Romulox Apr 2012 #116

According to Simon Anholt Nation Branding index MichaelMcGuire Apr 2012 #67

How does the Simon Anholt Nation Branding index explain our $46 billion monthly trade deficit? Zalatix Apr 2012 #75

Simon Anholt Nation Branding index MichaelMcGuire Apr 2012 #78

Great. How does that explain the fact that America imports FAR more than it exports? Zalatix Apr 2012 #81

What it does explain is the 'American Brand' isn't the problem, with ratings like that (nt) MichaelMcGuire Apr 2012 #109

If the brand wasn't the problem then our exports would be much higher relative to our imports. Zalatix Apr 2012 #110

Do you realize that it's not going so well for them? ilovecolombia Apr 2012 #26

Who are these divisive people? You mean people that want Rex Apr 2012 #4

RB needs to take his fake free trade talking points to a US Chamber Of Commerce forum run by the Elwood P Dowd Apr 2012 #13

When you START with namecalling, A. no one listens to you, and B. you lose by default. saras Apr 2012 #15

Straw man alert on aisle seven! Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #16

+1 LAGC Apr 2012 #68

Progressive countries trade (and import) more than us, not less. The reason they are progressive pampango Apr 2012 #19

I don't blame foreigners Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #22

And they're in a big fat mess because of their trade deficits, too. Zalatix Apr 2012 #24

Channeling the ghost of Boojatta? Electric Monk Apr 2012 #21

Holy shit! Boojatta got PPR'd?! LAGC Apr 2012 #66

Another thread bashing American workers who want American jobs Zalatix Apr 2012 #23

I like buying locally to keep money in my community. Wtf does it have to do with intrntl borders? uppityperson Apr 2012 #28

The world is your community. RB TexLa Apr 2012 #72

My neighbors buy my services with the money I give them for theirs. eom uppityperson Apr 2012 #79

Bullshit. You can't go get a job to produce goods for China. The world is NOT YOUR COMMUNITY. Zalatix Apr 2012 #104

Speak for yourself Terry in Austin Apr 2012 #106

And you don't even see the irony of misusing "community" to limit who you are bound to. RB TexLa Apr 2012 #120

Why don't you just admit you don't give a rat's ass about American workers? Zalatix Apr 2012 #122

Because that is not true. RB TexLa Apr 2012 #126

It is true. This thread is all about YOU telling American workers to go suck it. Zalatix Apr 2012 #127

International trade creates jobs in America RB TexLa Apr 2012 #129

Tariffs create more. marmar Apr 2012 #131

International trade replaces high paying jobs with very low paying jobs. Zalatix Apr 2012 #132

If international borders are so artificial and unimportant, why can't people freely cross Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #30

Europe has largely accomplished this, but things are quite progressive over there. pampango Apr 2012 #39

While you're going out to order a borderless society fantasy scenario Zalatix Apr 2012 #51

Never heard of the Romulan Neutral Zone evidently.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #71

The EU exists. It is not a "borderless society fantasy scenario". n/t pampango Apr 2012 #87

The EU is not a borderless society. Try coming into there from China or India. Zalatix Apr 2012 #90

I consider the lack of borders within the EU to represent a "borderless society". If you want to pampango Apr 2012 #101

Yeah by that reasoning America is a borderless society. Zalatix Apr 2012 #105

I give credit to the EU for transforming a continent with 27 "borders" on the continent to 1 - pampango Apr 2012 #108

Your dream of a borderless world will end in utter disaster. Zalatix Apr 2012 #111

Thanks for the honesty about your feelings toward Muslims and Chinese. pampango Apr 2012 #112

I don't hate Muslims or Chinese any more than you hate American workers. Zalatix Apr 2012 #113

You know that pampango is out of intellectually ammunition when she begins race baiting. Romulox Apr 2012 #114

Pampango has nothing but contempt for American workers and he/she knows it. Zalatix Apr 2012 #121

It's fun to poke fingers in her tissue paper arguments...not a lot of thought seems to go into them. Romulox Apr 2012 #124

No, it has not. The EU has, to a certain extent. That is more analogous to our going Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #74

Plus, the UK in particular has done a lot of replacing of British low-wage workers Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #91

At what point does your Utopianism interface with modern America as it exists...in the Real World? Romulox Apr 2012 #85

"What went wrong" is that we used to have most of the policies that Europe still has. pampango Apr 2012 #95

And despite this massive imbalance, you devote 100% of your advocacy to expanding corporate power? Romulox Apr 2012 #115

What went wrong is the US never instituted publicly funded elections and is destroying itself. Selatius Apr 2012 #123

I'm with you Romulux. amandabeech Apr 2012 #96

The freep or News ran an article the other day about West Michigan towns devastated by the loss Romulox Apr 2012 #117

Thank you, Romulux. amandabeech Apr 2012 #118

Yay! More anti - US labor race to the bottom garbage. Edweird Apr 2012 #40

At what point does RB Tex LA realize this thread hasn't gone the way s/he expected? Zalatix Apr 2012 #94

You make a valid point I demand walls and moats with sharks and lasers on their friggin' heads. jp11 Apr 2012 #43

Yep, I don't know why he's still here either. HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #73

Do you realize that if a company can pay a child 10 cents a day DefenseLawyer Apr 2012 #82

Thank goodness most of the "professional leftists" have been driven from DU! Romulox Apr 2012 #83

For our intellectually lazy, ideology loving DUers who want to argue with strawmen only. JackRiddler Apr 2012 #84

I have here in my hand, a list of 80 isolationistic nationalism loving DU'ers who want the world to FSogol Apr 2012 #92

Get at me when the paper and pen takes away the borders TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #97

............ OhioChick Apr 2012 #119

Yep, and playing the "xenophobia" card from the bottom of the deck. As usual. HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #125

Yep Rex Apr 2012 #128