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CrawlingChaos

(1,893 posts)

220. I never said he was a neo-con

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #219)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 09:20 PM

Nov 2014

I said he promotes ideas that are useful to neo-cons. I think that is demonstrably, inarguably true.

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I hate seeing "the religion of peace" bullshit here. [View all] cali Nov 2014 OP

Agree 110% n/t Violet_Crumble Nov 2014 #1

Have to agree, characterizations like you suggest are racist, religist and bad. Shrike47 Nov 2014 #2

Splinter groups? That's one way to minimize the arthritisR_US Nov 2014 #6

No One Expects Mbrow Nov 2014 #67

Lamest apology ever. Feral Child Nov 2014 #177

Prior to Constantine, the early Christian church was a religion of peace. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #3

the early christians had no power shaayecanaan Nov 2014 #5

"Muhammeds successful military conquests" -- "the early Christians had no power" JDPriestly Nov 2014 #8

It can't be done. The divisions, the hatreds, the rules and punishments are coded into the texts. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #19

"there is no historical record that Jesus or his disciples led and armed action" Thor_MN Nov 2014 #51

there is a bible! DeadEyeDyck Nov 2014 #82

Which is not a historical record. Thor_MN Nov 2014 #84

Bullcrap, bullcrap and more bullcrap. Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #139

Tacitus an Josephus wrote decades after Jesus edhopper Nov 2014 #193

The claim was "No historical record" that was secular. Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #197

Okay edhopper Nov 2014 #200

"There is no historical record that Jesus existed"... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #143

There is a compelling coincidence in the riot at the temple bhikkhu Nov 2014 #97

From everything I have read and heard, there is no evidence in the historical record Thor_MN Nov 2014 #107

True enough, but that's from the bible bhikkhu Nov 2014 #115

I don't get your meaning. Unless what you are saying is that your previous "Riot at the Temple" post Thor_MN Nov 2014 #116

the bible is a compilation of various accounts bhikkhu Nov 2014 #146

The Bible is no sort of historical record. It is a compilation of stories, many borrowed, all retold Thor_MN Nov 2014 #149

There weren't many historical records of that time at all. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #121

Yes, the idea of a "historical record" is relatively modern bhikkhu Nov 2014 #147

Even if you assume without a historical record that Jesus' death was the result of some JDPriestly Nov 2014 #119

You apparently missed my point. Thor_MN Nov 2014 #125

Then let's assume that the Gospels are simply mythology. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #131

Don't believe the hype Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #140

I don't disagree with you, but even if people do not believe in the historical Jesus, the JDPriestly Nov 2014 #144

I understand Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #145

"mythical jesus...is almost universally rejected"... truebrit71 Nov 2014 #151

and we have a WINNER! Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #171

Ah, so one dude changes his mind, and it's all over? truebrit71 Nov 2014 #181

Not just "one dude" but "THE DUDE" Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #182

I don't disagree with you. Early Christians existed. We know that. Thor_MN Nov 2014 #150

Did you read my post #119? JDPriestly Nov 2014 #155

Have you read any of my posts? Thor_MN Nov 2014 #156

Some believe that he was mentioned in a historical text, but you may be right. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #118

Oh fuck, not the Jesus Myther bullshit. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #166

Oh shit, not that "The bible tells me so" pablum. Thor_MN Nov 2014 #173

Lets see what actual historians say: Odin2005 Nov 2014 #192

Agreed. Any more than there is a Feral Child Nov 2014 #178

self defense rogerashton Nov 2014 #59

Can you elaborate on this please woolldog Nov 2014 #76

Elaborate? rogerashton Nov 2014 #117

That the very early, pre-Constantine Christians were drawn from the slave and maybe middle JDPriestly Nov 2014 #123

See my post #119. You might find it interesting with regard to what the early Christians JDPriestly Nov 2014 #122

Please see my post #119. I do not disagree with you but explain why Christians did not JDPriestly Nov 2014 #120

And when was Constantine's conversion? 312 AD When was the first council of Nicea? 325 AD - When was Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #46

True, but although we have other books and a historical record of the existence of Christian JDPriestly Nov 2014 #124

A Catholic would disagree Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #141

I would argue that the Christianity we know today was an invention of Constintine Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #126

And I would agree. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #130

"Here" as in here on DU? nxylas Nov 2014 #4

Ya, I can see how spouting critical thinking as arthritisR_US Nov 2014 #7

you and I clearly have different definitions of "critical thinking". cali Nov 2014 #9

From what I see in this thread, ya we do. nt arthritisR_US Nov 2014 #18

Is Dawkins Athiest or Anti-theist? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #11

The stupid "fundamentalist" label bvf Nov 2014 #24

Why pigeonhole? He defends pedophilia!!!! Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #43

I studied psychology in the late 1970 at Temple University fasttense Nov 2014 #63

Nearly a laugh, really a cry! Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #71

He's not defending pedophilia. bvf Nov 2014 #249

The bigoted, fanatical "New Atheist" idiots make me ashamed of being an Atheist. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #167

Aslan can use all the religious imagery he wants when describing atheists, since RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #29

What's the difference between Atheism and anti-theism? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #47

I think that atheism is to not believe in the supernatural. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #49

OK, that makes sense Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #54

It seems to me the word "supernatural" has an inherent claim of being beyond RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #56

OK ;~) Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #61

You've just cut to the chase bvf Nov 2014 #250

I define supernatural as an occult intelligence somewhere AngryAmish Nov 2014 #129

It's couched in the language of anti-theism nxylas Nov 2014 #73

Yeah, makes sense ;~) Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #78

Good luck man AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #224

I know and unfortunately I'm seeing more and arthritisR_US Nov 2014 #225

No hate to say that some dogma provide more cover for pro-violent fundamentalists than others. ancianita Nov 2014 #10

Are Theocracy and Free-Will mutually exclusive? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #13

Yes, of course they are. You can't have "free will" if you believe in hell. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #25

Is theocracy is antithetical to freedom? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #48

Well, "freedom" is a funny word that seems difficult to define, but RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #50

IS following a Religion similar to voluntary Theocracy? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #55

Every religion is, I think, inherently theocratic within its own hierarchy. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #58

That sounds like "religion" as politics rather than as spiritual liberation Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #64

That is, to me, religion as religion, since religions seem inherently political. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #65

So it's about semantics? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #70

Since it exists without any empirical evidence, religion is largely semantic, yes. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #72

Where is the empirical evidence of "dreaming" Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #80

Dreams are verifiable via CT scan imaging. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #87

CT scans a very recent technology in human history Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #99

Only when theocracy teaches that all are created with free will, while systematically bending ancianita Nov 2014 #53

Yes, they are mutually exclusive. Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #60

Theocracy is, specifically, a government based on a religion. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #75

Not necessarily. Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #83

I don't understand what you are saying here. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #88

Define divinity, because it has meaningful implications Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #91

Poetry is fine, yes. Lovely. But to claim divinity is being anthropomorphized RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #94

You brough Divinity into the discussion, so define divinity Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #100

A supernatural source of morals and ethics. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #103

Um, yeah? Seems like adding that to the discussion is a non-sequiter Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #104

I see. But I disagree. If a group of people want to believe something, as long as they don't impose ancianita Nov 2014 #86

"The No-Ego ego trip is the biggest ego trip of them all." Robert Anton Wilson RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #92

Yeah, there's a lot of hipster fakery around no-ego, for sure. But the ordinariness of doing good ancianita Nov 2014 #93

Knowing the difference of what? RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #95

Between your quote's claim of no-ego being the biggest ego of all, and the realness of no ego. ancianita Nov 2014 #96

Hm. I am currently under the impression there is no difference. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #98

There is such a thing as no ego. But one has to get to that by letting go of an ego, first. Buddha ancianita Nov 2014 #113

The premise of "believe what you want but don't impose it" seems implausible? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #102

Agreed. And in the context of hierarchal religions, it's a hard way to be without being persecuted. ancianita Nov 2014 #114

I must be missing your point or your context Recursion Nov 2014 #12

it's about context. some people use it sneeringly to slam Islam cali Nov 2014 #16

Oh oh oh got it. Yes, you're right. Recursion Nov 2014 #22

Well, the idea that islam is "peaceful" or that to be jewish is to be "chosen" are absurd RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #23

you don't get it. deliberately or not. cali Nov 2014 #34

I do not agree with your OP, no. Religion needs critics. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #36

that freepfuck crap is not criticism. of course religion needs criticism. there is scarcely a human cali Nov 2014 #42

um, yes. oooooooo-k. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #45

You seem angry that their self descriptions have turned into PEJORATIVES? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #66

I don't respect religion or religious thinking. I don't respect faith or the faithful. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #14

I don't respect generalizations that are tantamount to rank and ugly bigotry, dear. cali Nov 2014 #17

Which generalizations would that be? RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #20

OK. no more "dear" for you. cali Nov 2014 #31

I didn't use any generalizations in that post that I don't feel capable of defending. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #35

In many cases religious people are tolerable only in spite of, not because of, their religions. Silent3 Nov 2014 #101

Oh, give us a break. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #110

Religion needs hate to exist. bvf Nov 2014 #15

I couldn't disagree more. The purpose of religion is to quash individuality. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #21

another ridiculous generalization, but even if I agreed with your simplistic nonsense cali Nov 2014 #27

Well, I at least take the time to articulate my thoughts. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #33

lol. You seem to have a heavily inflated view of the nonsense you're spewing. cali Nov 2014 #40

You seem to lack an aversion for communication without insult, but I can take it. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #44

LOL. bvf Nov 2014 #69

At the root, it's a conflict between the rational and irrational mind with each individual Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #77

Most of it is based on mythology, stories, and falsehoods, though. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #246

Point taken. bvf Nov 2014 #37

One of the meanings of the word "islam" is submission. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #41

So what's your excuse? nt Union Scribe Nov 2014 #106

Bullshit, Buddhism needs hate to exist? Odin2005 Nov 2014 #165

Allow me to clarify that. bvf Nov 2014 #248

LOL...I missed it but people here are saying "religion of peace" Cali_Democrat Nov 2014 #26

it happens on a regular basis. and yes, exactly as the freepfucks use it. cali Nov 2014 #28

Are you bigoted against freepers? nt ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #157

Well, I have personally never used the term "religion of peace" to describe any monotheism. RadiationTherapy Nov 2014 #39

well obviously I agree - this place loaded with Pamella Gellar lite posts - it is horrifying Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #30

yep. this thread is testimony to that. cali Nov 2014 #32

Judge individuals by their UglyGreed Nov 2014 #38

Fully agree. LeftishBrit Nov 2014 #52

I completely zgree. We have a few one note posters who sole purpose is to say Islam is violent. hrmjustin Nov 2014 #57

And here I always thought Iamthetruth Nov 2014 #62

I think it's fair when someone commits violence in the name of a Islam. aikoaiko Nov 2014 #68

If you look at history, NO religion can be called the "religion of peace" hobbit709 Nov 2014 #74

Wicca Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #233

Ancient Egypt, Greece, pre-Christian Rome, Hindus, Babylon, the Hittites, the Aztecs, etc. hobbit709 Nov 2014 #236

Shifting goalposts Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #237

And you're changing definitions. hobbit709 Nov 2014 #238

How did I change definitions? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #239

Anti-Muslim bigotry is surprisingly accepted here, and it's disgusting Chathamization Nov 2014 #79

That is not true. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #158

Point me to the moderate groups of Scientologists who oppose the Church of Scientology. Chathamization Nov 2014 #172

So religious bigotry is ok, if you don't like the religious demographic? nt ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #183

No, smearing someone for something they didn't do and are opposed to do just because they happen to Chathamization Nov 2014 #185

OK, but shouldn't that apply to Scientologists too? nt ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #187

As I said, point me to the moderate Scientologists who oppose the Church of Scientology Chathamization Nov 2014 #189

The Church of Scientology doesn't condone violence against the general population. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #194

Violence of individual members? No. But I haven't seen Scientology attacked for the violence of Chathamization Nov 2014 #196

I'm exploring the religious bigotry I percieve in you. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #198

For the third time - where is the group of moderate Scientologists who condemn the Church of Chathamization Nov 2014 #199

That is not my argument at all. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #202

Can you provide any evidence that people attack the Church of Scientology because of their beliefs? Chathamization Nov 2014 #203

I've seen it in the Religion Group. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #204

Well, yes, I don't agree with those saying it's not a real religion. The fact is, any religion is Chathamization Nov 2014 #206

As well as Mormons Scootaloo Nov 2014 #226

Religion and peace don't go together.nt newfie11 Nov 2014 #81

++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Nov 2014 #85

Truth. ^ Lex Nov 2014 #108

Really? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #232

For the most part (although not exclusively) it's the same 2 assholes trolls doing it. One of whom Guy Whitey Corngood Nov 2014 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author Nye Bevan Nov 2014 #90

Ironically, religious wars are fought to "protect" omnipotent deities. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2014 #105

Right. Pay no attention to mass slaughter, disease, famine, natural disasters, and so on. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #245

Thank you. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #109

I agree, and hope you distinguish between bigoted statements like that tritsofme Nov 2014 #111

Sam Harris and Bill Maher are bigots CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #134

+1,000,000 cpwm17 Nov 2014 #137

Which race(s) are hated by Maher and Harris? nt ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #159

When they condemn Islam they are really condemning all people in the "Islamic World" cpwm17 Nov 2014 #174

That isn't racism. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #184

Absolute bollocks. truebrit71 Nov 2014 #154

They sometimes speak hard truths. tritsofme Nov 2014 #207

That is not a "hard truth". It is bigoted garbage straight from the piehole of Sam Harris CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #208

Can you dispute what he said? tritsofme Nov 2014 #209

Yes, I dispute it CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #212

Someone like Molly Norris doesn't have the luxury to dispute it. tritsofme Nov 2014 #214

Oh jeez, here we go with that crap again CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #215

"New Atheism" is a Neo-Con front movement. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #168

Well, no; did you ever read what Dawkins said about Iraq? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #169

Ah well, that was a good many years ago! CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #210

What has that got to do with neo-cons or even capitalism? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #211

It's extremely useful to neo-con goals CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #213

Those wars of conquest that Dawkins speaks out about? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #216

Let's put it this way CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #218

OK, that interview was in April 2009, when the University of Antwerp gave him an honorary doctorate muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #219

I never said he was a neo-con CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #220

So Islam can never be criticised, because that would be useful to neo-cons? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #221

I, too, harbor the suspicion that New Atheism is a neo-con front movement CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #223

I agree Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #112

I continue to wonder why progressives are so protective of Islam bluestateguy Nov 2014 #127

"The Bible falls short of the things progressives believe in". CJCRANE Nov 2014 #128

"Islam falls well short of the things progressives believe in." nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #152

Do you feel the same about Republicans? ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #160

While I'm probably as guilty of assuming "Republican" = "asshole" as anyone, I try to give nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #163

The Hadiths are where Islam's issues arise. joshcryer Nov 2014 #170

"Islam" is not one monolithic group of people YoungDemCA Nov 2014 #190

Muslims are people. Scootaloo Nov 2014 #227

Judaism, Christianity, Islam different sects of the same bloody religion. Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #132

Depends on what you mean by "recognize" jberryhill Nov 2014 #136

Here are some excerpts from Wikipedia about Jesus in Islam and Judaism: CJCRANE Nov 2014 #138

Jesus isn't some rabbi in Islam he is haled as a chief profit second to only Mohammad. Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #229

But here's the rub: There's the religion, and then you have the people sakabatou Nov 2014 #133

Exactly. Think what you will about the tenets of the faith, but its followers possess the same nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #153

Thank you for this thread CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #135

You are really on a roll today Cali! Texasgal Nov 2014 #142

GOD, protect me from your followers! yortsed snacilbuper Nov 2014 #148

You don't seem to mind insults. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #161

That's what I'm wondering. Quantess Nov 2014 #188

In those "heady," days after 9/11 nilesobek Nov 2014 #162

Yes, which is why people saying they put down Christianity too is like Freepers saying they Chathamization Nov 2014 #175

+1. Power dynamics/inequalities absolutely matter YoungDemCA Nov 2014 #191

Islamophobia should be grounds for tombstoning Odin2005 Nov 2014 #164

Personally I think we should be bashing all religion, often and loudly. bowens43 Nov 2014 #176

Every religious nutter should be told to shut up. AngryAmish Nov 2014 #179

And subjected to stiff fines for every utterance. 2banon Nov 2014 #244

Agree with this, completely. n/t 2banon Nov 2014 #243

Yep. Religion is just an excuse to abandon reason. Bonx Nov 2014 #247

I wonder often what modern day extreme Christians would do to nonbelievers, gays, et al Voice for Peace Nov 2014 #180

Only likely? Look at Sabra and Shatila or the Bosnian War. For what extremist atheists would do, Chathamization Nov 2014 #186

I was thinking specifically of good old American extremists. Voice for Peace Nov 2014 #205

They'd be burning us before the day was out Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #231

I'm afraid you're right. Voice for Peace Nov 2014 #240

Really though, I think those are excuses Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #241

Yes. The habit of blaming everyone, anyone else, for one's own unhappiness. Voice for Peace Nov 2014 #242

There's no such Thing as a "Religion of Peace".. ALL RELIGIONS provoke Division/Violence/War 2banon Nov 2014 #195

Really? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #230

depends on how it's used , how about when christians claim to be about life JI7 Nov 2014 #201

We are Better Than "That". fascisthunter Nov 2014 #217

Never thought about the parallel with "the chosen people" slander. Ash_F Nov 2014 #222

Not sure what the context is here. MADem Nov 2014 #228

Thanks for this thread Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #234

Great OP Union Scribe Nov 2014 #235

How about just peace, without religion!? Can we just be in a state of peace? Please!? Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #251