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wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
94. glad you asked.
Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:36 PM
Nov 2014

First, your reply is another example of how 'progressives' seem to snub the idea of corroborating evidence. Secondly, this was KoKo's opportunity to tell how she views FDR before we start presenting evidence. But what the hell...

FDR was a one-percenter

Roosevelt's net worth in 1932 was $6o million (http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/politician/president/franklin-d-roosevelt-net-worth/)

Roosevelt saved capitalism and the principles of privately owned business for the U.S. economy... Roosevelt did not think in dictatorial or even anti-business terms. Amid speculation that his administration would nationalize the banks, Roosevelt's emergency banking bill extended government aid to help banks through the crisis... Roosevelt's New Deal reforms didn't challenge the system of private profit but sought to regulate and channel it.

In the New Deal there was a tug of war between those who favored a centrally planned economy and those who believed that a reliance on small business and decentralized economic power would bring about recovery. The decentralizers prevailed.

This belief in decentralized and democratic economic power characterized the most important reform of the Roosevelt era: Social Security.

Social Security, by guaranteeing income to elderly retired Americans, established the proposition that the individual has social rights.

But Roosevelt, against the advice of economic planners who would have made it solely a relief program for the poor, insisted on adding responsibilities by funding Social Security through taxes deducted from every wage earner's paycheck.

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/oct/25/news/ss-26179


He sensed a shift in the electoral mood in the early 1930s and went with it



http://books.google.com/books?id=z8wSCZG9O6AC&pg=PA406&lpg=PA406&dq=fdr+opportunist&source=bl&ots=uS-ItBAquz&sig=-g7THj75It4D9BiqplduDbcTr-o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=B4J2VLXvCs_ToASfiYDQAw&sqi=2&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=fdr%20opportunist&f=false

Broadly representative measures of public opinion during the first years of the Depression are not available — the Gallup organization did not begin its regular polling operations until 1935...

... the most striking difference between the 1930s and the present day is that, by the standards of today’s political parlance, average Americans of the mid-1930s revealed downright “socialistic” tendencies in many of their views about the proper role of government.

http://www.pewresearch.org/2010/12/14/how-a-different-america-responded-to-the-great-depression/


National surveys suggest that the leftward shift in public opinion during the 1930s was even more extensive than indicated by third-party voting or membership in radical organizations.

http://www.hoover.org/research/how-fdr-saved-capitalism


Like President Obama and those in Congress who favor government programs to put people to work and ensure that all Americans can enjoy a healthy and productive life, FDR’s New Deal—including his passage of unemployment insurance and Social Security—was attacked as “undisguised state socialism” by one senator. Others went so far as to insist that FDR was a communist, including FDR’s erstwhile colleague Al Smith, who, as one of the founders of the right-wing American Liberty League, warned in the 1936 election that “the people could either breathe the clear fresh air of America, or the foul breath of Soviet Russia.”

FDR brushed aside these attacks in part by insisting that we were a rich nation that could “afford to pay for security and prosperity without having to sacrifice our liberties into the bargain.”

http://rooseveltinstitute.org/franklin-d-roosevelt-socialist-or-champion-freedom


He co-opted much of the left's rhetoric to keep progressive third party threats at bay

The economic crisis of the 1930s presented American radicals with their greatest opportunity to build a third party since World War I, but the constitutional system and the brilliant way in which Franklin Delano Roosevelt co-opted the left prevented this...

Franklin Roosevelt demonstrated his skill at co-opting the rhetoric and demands of opposition groups the year before his 1936 reelection, when the demagogic Senator Huey Long of Louisiana threatened to run on a third-party Share-Our-Wealth ticket. This possibility was particularly threatening because a “secret” public opinion poll conducted in 1935 for the Democratic National Committee suggested that Long might get three to four million votes, throwing several states over to the Republicans if he ran at the head of a third party. At the same time several progressive senators were flirting with a potential third ticket; Roosevelt felt that as a result the 1936 election might witness a Progressive Republican ticket, headed by Robert La Follette, alongside a Share-Our-Wealth ticket.

To prevent this, Roosevelt shifted to the left in rhetoric and, to some extent, in policy, consciously seeking to steal the thunder of his populist critics.

http://www.hoover.org/research/how-fdr-saved-capitalism


Progressives' of his day didn't care for him much

In my examination of the historical record, it is clear that Roosevelt endured vicious, unrelenting attacks from his left that often exceeded the level of vitriol directed at President Obama, and correspondingly, Roosevelt was not viewed by liberals of his day with the adulation and reverence liberals view him today.

In fact, it's pretty remarkable how closely the attacks Roosevelt experienced from his left echo the attacks that liberals make against Obama today. (numerous links and examples follow...)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/08/11/891631/-UPDATED-Liberal-Criticism-of-Franklin-Roosevelt-and-The-New-Deal#


He cut deals with conservatives on civil rights to get parts of the New Deal passed, many of his policies were racist.

Most women and minorities were excluded from the benefits of unemployment insurance and old age pensions. Employment definitions reflected typical white male categories and patterns.[6] Job categories that were not covered by the act included workers in agricultural labor, domestic service, government employees, and many teachers, nurses, hospital employees, librarians, and social workers.[7] The act also denied coverage to individuals who worked intermittently.[8] These jobs were dominated by women and minorities. For example, women made up 90 percent of domestic labor in 1940 and two-thirds of all employed black women were in domestic service.[9] Exclusions exempted nearly half of the working population.[8] Nearly two-thirds of all African Americans in the labor force, 70 to 80 percent in some areas in the South, and just over half of all women employed were not covered by Social Security.[10][11] At the time, the NAACP protested the Social Security Act, describing it as “a sieve with holes just big enough for the majority of Negroes to fall through.”[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Social_Security_in_the_United_States#Initial_opposition


The harsh logic of Roosevelt's racial stance was expressed most clearly in 1938, when liberal congressmen attempted to pass federal anti-lynching legislation to halt the most horrific type of anti-black terrorism. (Several thousand blacks were killed by lynching in the United States between the 1880s and 1960s.) Southern Senators angrily filibustered, and FDR defied black leaders and his own wife by refusing to throw his support behind the measure. "I did not choose the tools with which I must work," he explained. "Had I been permitted to choose them I would have selected quite different ones. But I've got to get legislation passed by Congress to save America. The Southerners... occupy strategic places on most of the Senate and House committees. If I come out for the antilynching bill now, they will block every bill I ask Congress to pass to keep America from collapsing. I just can't take that risk."

http://www.shmoop.com/fdr-new-deal/race.html


He didn't intend for welfare to be a permanent government expenditure.

The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fibre. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. It is inimical to the dictates of sound policy. It is in violation of the traditions of America. Work must be found for able-bodied but destitute workers.

The Federal Government must and shall quit this business of relief.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=14890


He was propagandist

This was propaganda. FDR's talks were scripted by policy advisers and stylized by the playwright Robert Sherwood. Through these homey "fireside chats" the aristocratic Roosevelt recast himself as a plain-talking everyman. ...

http://www.thenation.com/article/fdrs-democratic-propaganda#


He was a warmonger.

As World War II began, Roosevelt was among those concerned at the growing strength of the Axis Powers, and he found ways to help Great Britain, the Chinese Nationalists, and later the Soviet Union in their struggle against them. His program of Lend-Lease supplied military equipment to those powers despite the U.S. government's official neutrality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Franklin_D._Roosevelt#Criticism_of_Roosevelt_as_a_.22Warmonger.22


Like I said, a great president in a profession where the bar is set pretty low. Certainly not the progressive hero the left has made him out to be.
I would love to say no, but the oligarchs have steamrolled over FDR several trillion times. Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #1
Have you been paying attention? PeteSelman Nov 2014 #2
So... I Should Give Up On Voting For Democrats ??? WillyT Nov 2014 #3
I fear that all is lost. PeteSelman Nov 2014 #6
Reagan trickle down has failed miserably and much of what FDR did is still working. But jwirr Nov 2014 #35
No, because the alternative is roided-up republinazis IDemo Nov 2014 #7
they got us by the short and curlies. Too bad they've forgotten what they're supposed to do now librechik Nov 2014 #25
Strange, I heard "FDR Democrats" separated from "liberal, socialist Democrats"... moriah Nov 2014 #70
I don't know why. PeteSelman Nov 2014 #73
We may have to give up on "these" Democrats if we want FDR results world wide wally Nov 2014 #4
Pony lover. woo me with science Nov 2014 #5
Ingrate ??? - Yeah... WillyT Nov 2014 #8
James Buchanan is too "extreme" for the Dems--because he took positions, and that rankles the MisterP Nov 2014 #9
I know this is heresy. newfie11 Nov 2014 #10
If the FDR coalition is dead, it's because the "progressive" purists killed it. baldguy Nov 2014 #11
Oh Please... Do Explain... WillyT Nov 2014 #16
It's dead because all of its members are dead. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #20
I'm still here. Born in 1941. jwirr Nov 2014 #36
Pretty much except for the outliers mmonk Nov 2014 #12
And in some cases, Dems are to the right of Republicans (not just Obama) RiverLover Nov 2014 #13
Intentional betrayal. Scuba Nov 2014 #15
+ 1,000,000,000 !!! WillyT Nov 2014 #18
Sux for me because I'm an FDR Dem...with no representation. ~nt RiverLover Nov 2014 #14
A clue for the GOP-ish wingtip... Octafish Nov 2014 #17
FDR died 70 years ago. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #19
Did The Democratic Party Die Too ??? WillyT Nov 2014 #22
We held it because of segregation. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #27
Really ??? - We Lost The Congress After We Passed The Voting Rights Act ??? - I Don't Think So... WillyT Nov 2014 #37
What do you think LBJ meant when he said, "We have lost the South for a generation?" wyldwolf Nov 2014 #64
Well... I Know It Took A Generation To Do It... WillyT Nov 2014 #69
the south immediately began moving to the Republican side... wyldwolf Nov 2014 #72
And We Democrats Started Moving Away From FDR Priciples That Served Us Well, And Are Now... WillyT Nov 2014 #75
Your long reply has nothing to do with your initial claim. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #76
So... No Response... No Concern... How Do You Propose We Win Again ??? WillyT Nov 2014 #85
stay on task much? wyldwolf Nov 2014 #92
Non Responsive... WillyT Nov 2014 #93
evasive. You completely changed the subject wyldwolf Nov 2014 #95
"Racist southern whites were a key part of the FDR coalition." Erm, not quite. AverageJoe90 Nov 2014 #58
The Southern faction did, indeed, play a major role wyldwolf Nov 2014 #66
Here's a black perspective, Mary McLeod Bethune's~ RiverLover Nov 2014 #68
Well...... AverageJoe90 Nov 2014 #71
"FDR let the Dixiecrats 'in to an extent.'" No, they played a major role in the New Deal's passage wyldwolf Nov 2014 #74
"No, they played a major role in the New Deal's passage", I'm sorry, but that's a myth...... AverageJoe90 Nov 2014 #80
I just posted source material and you still contend it's a myth wyldwolf Nov 2014 #84
Re: "If the facts don't fit your world view, you just deny they exist." AverageJoe90 Nov 2014 #87
the source materials contradicted your opinions (what you're calling 'facts') wyldwolf Nov 2014 #96
Those were not opinions. AverageJoe90 Nov 2014 #102
Hm. Ok, un-sourced, un-linked cites. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #103
I'll let you know when I find the sources I'm looking for. AverageJoe90 Nov 2014 #104
That one XemaSab Nov 2014 #106
We didn't hold 'congress for 40 years because of FDR.' wyldwolf Nov 2014 #63
“government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob.” FDR adirondacker Nov 2014 #21
Maybe we need an FDR Democratic Party to challenge the Cleita Nov 2014 #23
+1 Le Taz Hot Nov 2014 #24
How would you get southern white racists to sign up? geek tragedy Nov 2014 #28
Really? Cleita Nov 2014 #29
They were Democrats under FDR because Lincoln geek tragedy Nov 2014 #44
Well now they have been Republicans for decades now. Cleita Nov 2014 #46
That is not the FDR coalition though. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #47
It can be if our activists explain it to them. eom Cleita Nov 2014 #48
No, it's a modern coalition, for better or worse. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #49
I didn't care about FDR when I was in my early twenties and I was Cleita Nov 2014 #50
No Americans have been thrown into internment camps lately... SidDithers Nov 2014 #26
Anytime anyone mentions FDR someone brings up the internment camps Cleita Nov 2014 #30
Then how about... wyldwolf Nov 2014 #113
That was started by Hoover. eom Cleita Nov 2014 #116
and FDR continued it. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #117
You've made your point. One of the greatest Presidents of this country also made Cleita Nov 2014 #118
And your point is... wyldwolf Nov 2014 #119
No... But A Couple Have Been Killed By Drones... WillyT Nov 2014 #38
Yes BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #31
FDR is dead, period. MineralMan Nov 2014 #32
That was Truman's judgement, through advisement, to use it, though. KoKo Nov 2014 #40
It wasn't built not to be used. MineralMan Nov 2014 #42
*checks my pulse* lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #33
You can sensse his spirit so often in our party. "You have to compromise!" he was fond of saying. raouldukelives Nov 2014 #34
I do not think FDR would have been for TPP, the ending of public education or environmental jwirr Nov 2014 #43
FDR....Who? KoKo Nov 2014 #39
I have read this post and apparently it is dead. So what the hell do we care what happens to Social jwirr Nov 2014 #41
Recommend...you are addressing the Roosevelt programs that KoKo Nov 2014 #52
I agree. One of the things I think that could have been done better is talking more about the things jwirr Nov 2014 #55
Agree with what you say. KoKo Nov 2014 #60
I think it may even be making a difference already. How many of us are spending as much at jwirr Nov 2014 #61
It died because FDR wasn't Progressive enough maxrandb Nov 2014 #45
Here's a short snip from a great article that explains why we want FDR progressivism to LIVE RiverLover Nov 2014 #51
Thank You For That !!! WillyT Nov 2014 #53
My pleasure WillyT!!! RiverLover Nov 2014 #56
This Democratic Party is nothing like my father's. Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #54
Not at all. He campaigned as one, though. And he won big!! RiverLover Nov 2014 #57
He never did break out those comfortable walking shoes did he? Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #82
The Turd Wayers want FDR gone from OUR party... 99Forever Nov 2014 #59
The FDR you're imagining never existed. Just as the Reagan the right imagines never existed wyldwolf Nov 2014 #62
ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! KoKo Nov 2014 #77
How about... wyldwolf Nov 2014 #78
I'm okay with that......are you? KoKo Nov 2014 #79
definitely, which I why I always suggest it. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #81
Where are the links you demand from others? RiverLover Nov 2014 #86
glad you asked. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #94
Thanks for the links. But NOTHING here negates what he did for us while in office. RiverLover Nov 2014 #99
which isn't what I contended wyldwolf Nov 2014 #100
I'm not idolizing him. He came to be a populist slowly. I've read alot. What he DID though in ofc RiverLover Nov 2014 #101
Okay...what about his "New Deal" and "Regulating the Banks?" KoKo Nov 2014 #89
It was the center ground wyldwolf Nov 2014 #97
Way to go, Koko! Nicely played. :-) RiverLover Nov 2014 #83
I hate to say this, but..... AverageJoe90 Nov 2014 #88
all you've offered me is... wyldwolf Nov 2014 #98
LOL !!! - IRONIC !!! WillyT Nov 2014 #105
Again, you reveal how fundamentalists have different definitions wyldwolf Nov 2014 #107
blahblahblah If the FDR I studied is not real, then who said this: Zorra Nov 2014 #108
So you 'studied' FDR and came away with one quote? wyldwolf Nov 2014 #110
I simply don't have any more time to waste on RW corporatist bullshit. nt Zorra Nov 2014 #111
Cop out alert!!! wyldwolf Nov 2014 #112
Buh-bye! Zorra Nov 2014 #114
aww! You found time to come back and say bye! wyldwolf Nov 2014 #115
FDR's Democratic Propaganda RiverLover Nov 2014 #65
Honestly I'd like to see the democratic party go into a more socialist direction. We need to craigmatic Nov 2014 #67
Me too. ~nt RiverLover Nov 2014 #91
FDR fought Wall Street, helped the unemployed become employed, and more... RiverLover Nov 2014 #90
FDR's policies are still alive in Europe. Strong safety net, high taxes, pampango Nov 2014 #109
Huh? True Blue Door Nov 2014 #120
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