Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
Showing Original Post only (View all)Suck it up, Snowden-haters: New Yorker on "Why Citizenfour Deserved Its Oscar" [View all]
Why Citizenfour Deserved Its OscarBY AMY DAVIDSON * FEBRUARY 22, 2015 * The New Yorker
Thank you to Edward Snowden for his courage, Laura Poitras, the director of Citizenfour, said as she accepted the Oscar for best documentary. Neil Patrick Harris, the award shows host, noted that Snowden couldnt be there for some treason. Treason isnt one of the crimes Snowden has been charged withthe government wants to prosecute him under the Espionage Actbut both the praise and the joke point to why this Snowden Oscar mattered. What he did was useful, and dangerous.
That wouldnt have been enough if the movie were bad. But Citizenfour is worth watching, as well as celebrating. One still has to ask where the cinematic romance is. At the Oscars, an answer was provided by the young woman onstage with Poitras: Lindsay Mills, the woman whom Snowden at first left behind when he left his job and everything else for a hotel room in Hong Kong. One of the minor revelations of Citizenfour was that Mills had joined him in Moscow.
Just walk me through it, Glenn Greenwald tells Edward Snowden, in that Hong Kong hotel room. The guidance Greenwald and his colleagues look for is of three distinct kinds: How do you keep secrets? Why would Snowden tell secrets? And what has the government been hiding?
The first is the most one-sided. Greenwald, as the narration delicately makes clear, initially cant figure out or cant be bothered to set up the encrypted line of communication needed to satisfy the mysterious source who e-mails himthis is why Snowden turns to Laura Poitras, who knows exactly what hes talking about when he asks, in their first exchanges, about her public keys. (George Packer wrote a Profile of Poitras for The New Yorker.) Snowden shows Greenwald how to do it (It seems hard, but its notthis is super-easy), and why he should. Here is one of the practical, paradoxical gifts of the Snowden affair: dont give up on the idea that your words can be secret, at least slightly more secret than is convenient for companies or spies. If you are a little disciplined, you can be freer. There is a lovely shot of Greenwalds face when Snowden, who is about to enter a password, asks for his magic mantle of power, a red sweatshirt, and pulls it over his head, as if he were a man running in the rain, or a teen-ager with a flashlight under his blankets. Looking at him, Greenwald, whom weve already encountered as a big talker, is, for a moment, only quiet and curious, with barely a flicker in his expression before he asks, Is that about the possibility ofoverhead? Greenwald adds that nothing will surprise him anymore. His tone in that instant is one that the film, for all the scenes with angry activists, ultimately shares, and why the film worksneither titillated nor portentous, and just abashed enough to keep its importance from becoming self-importance.
More: http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/is-citizenfour-worth-celebrating
InfoView thread info, including edit history
TrashPut this thread in your Trash Can (My DU » Trash Can)
BookmarkAdd this thread to your Bookmarks (My DU » Bookmarks)
514 replies, 63447 views
ShareGet links to this post and/or share on social media
AlertAlert this post for a rule violation
PowersThere are no powers you can use on this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
ReplyReply to this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
Rec (151)
ReplyReply to this post
514 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Suck it up, Snowden-haters: New Yorker on "Why Citizenfour Deserved Its Oscar" [View all]
99th_Monkey
Feb 2015
OP
But that "worse" government is the one Snowden has chosen to embrace in lieu of his own.
George II
Feb 2015
#220
The shame is that he fled the country, unlike most others in similar positions, who WERE heroes
George II
Feb 2015
#229
Nevermind that heroes like Daniel Ellsberg have endorsed Snowden's decision to leave n/t
markpkessinger
Feb 2015
#254
What was he doing in Moscow in the first place? Presumably his final destination.....
George II
Feb 2015
#267
You mean he didn't go to Hong Kong? He didn't go to Moscow? He didn't have a ticket to Havana?
George II
Feb 2015
#439
I wasn't aware that the United States' legitimacy was defined in relation to Russia n/t
markpkessinger
Feb 2015
#252
U.S. allies forced the Bolivian president's plane to land based on a rumor Snowden was on board . .
markpkessinger
Feb 2015
#452
I think it was better gamble than going to Russia even if it wasnt part of his plan
cstanleytech
Feb 2015
#456
I doubt the Vatican would have permitted itself to be placed in that position in the first place n/t
markpkessinger
Feb 2015
#458
Oh you are probably about that but I think he probably safer there than I suspect he will
cstanleytech
Feb 2015
#459
The NSA 100% penetration spying on Americans 24/7 is an unconstitutional abomination.
99th_Monkey
Feb 2015
#367
Problem is though Snowden also released alot of other information that wasnt about
cstanleytech
Feb 2015
#451
Boy that sucker is going off maybe you should try reducing the amount you produce?
cstanleytech
Feb 2015
#500
So, explain how the "Whistleblower law to back up it being enforced properly."
blackspade
Feb 2015
#389
Red baiting, the last gasp of the far right as they cling to the past where every one on the 'left'
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#478
Nice use of illogical fallacy, "So because the documentary won an Oscar....that vindicates Snowden?"
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#9
Apparently the guy that wrote this OP who now admits ha hasn't even seen the movie!
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2015
#445
Let's get back to the logical fallacy, strawman, you set up when you infer that the
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#446
Nothing illogical about it....what IS illogical...is making the proclamation..."suck it up"
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2015
#447
What it specifically means is that among voting members of the Academy who are documentary film
Bluenorthwest
Feb 2015
#15
It's a good documentary. Especially when you contrast it with Snowden's 'live' performances.
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#24
And people who make documentaries probably care very much about the content, subject
JDPriestly
Feb 2015
#288
Sorry if I confused you with someone else. I was out at a meeting between posts.
JDPriestly
Feb 2015
#297
Then what was this snarky OP about? Certainly not the quality of the film....
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2015
#149
"Vindicates?" Most people don't share your view that Snowden's heroism needs "vindication."
PSPS
Feb 2015
#29
Actually most people do....its a crime...by any stretch of the imagination...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2015
#150
NO YOU are the one that is keeping Odd company on a Democratic site...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2015
#437
"Heroism"? Running off to a country that just three decades ago was our greatest enemy....
George II
Feb 2015
#171
"Creative Speculation"? He DID go to Hong Kong and Moscow, and he DID have a ticket to Havana.
George II
Feb 2015
#442
yes, but you are implying that he's a communist fellow traveler because of that itinerary.
grasswire
Feb 2015
#448
What did he do wrong? He reported crimes against the Constitution to the American people. Can you
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#45
I understand that, I wanted our team to win also because I thought 'winning' meant something
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#129
'My team' = Democratic Party, the Blue Team. Now read it again and read the post I responded to.
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#279
If you cannot pledge to support the winner of the Democratic Primary....EVEN if that is
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2015
#318
You don't understand teams. Teams need good coaches in order to keep winning. The coaches
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#397
I just explained what a team is to you. Politicians are the players, WE ARE THE MANAGEMENT. They
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#476
Thank you, scary isn't it? Pledges of loyalty to OUR employees, who ever HEARD of such a thing in a
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#477
Nobody will rein in anything. Whatever we can do we will, wether we want to believe it or not.
Pisces
Feb 2015
#351
Yes, because something went terribly wrong with this democracy back then. And now it has gone
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#362
But American Sniper didn't win and for good reason. I would not even watch it.
JDPriestly
Feb 2015
#113
Yep. Being a soldier destroyed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi families.
Luminous Animal
Feb 2015
#223
Some would. And some would see it as a loss for their team. I would. But I might change my
JDPriestly
Feb 2015
#198
This whole "Snowden is God because he won an Oscar" thing is just about the dumbest thing
Number23
Feb 2015
#240
A shame he doesn't have the stones to "start that conversation" in Moscow....
Blue_Tires
Feb 2015
#85
I think it might be personal, grasswire. There's something pathological going on there.
2banon
Feb 2015
#467
The Greenwald/Poitras/Snowden/Guardian team has already won so many honors that any
JDPriestly
Feb 2015
#117
I'm still waiting for those promised links, in which you will prove Greenwald is a liar.
DisgustipatedinCA
Feb 2015
#334
Well--given the last OP--that was deleted by this poster, natch.....this is a step up!!!
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#18
It's easy to post articles--harder so to defend an ideal with articles. A lost art here on DU. nt
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#33
Sad that this drives people so profoundly. I mean, really--it's supposed to be a nice way to pass
MADem
Feb 2015
#54
For shits and giggles....if you click on some recs, you'll see that the only time in the last 6
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#58
Yes, and why would you think that? It could have been directed at right wingers.
cui bono
Feb 2015
#99
Calling out and insulting with pettiness the last time, too..eh? I can kind of tell by the replies.
Cha
Feb 2015
#259
The subject line title divides the board and spoils for a fight. It was unnecessary.
MADem
Feb 2015
#283
Yes, quite "republican", like "why do you hate America" or "you're either with us or against us"!
George II
Feb 2015
#114
And when you consider that by every measure, it is conservatives that have supported Snowden
Number23
Feb 2015
#244
Yes, don't let the several articles I linked to that CONFIRM what I wrote distort your foolish
Number23
Feb 2015
#434
Much like the omnipresent references to "Hillary haters," "Obama haters," etc.
merrily
Feb 2015
#305
Here come the authoritarians. This thread is guaranteed a hundred plus replies with little substance
Electric Monk
Feb 2015
#4
As I mentioned above: "Whistle-blowers are heroes to those that value freedom. They are despised by
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#11
I must admit, I didn't expect this to pass 500 replies, but here we are. Can it make a thousand? nt
Electric Monk
Feb 2015
#510
LOL, do we need to explain to Amy Davidson that "prosecute him under the Espionage Act" won't
FSogol
Feb 2015
#6
Nah... I think "persecute him under the Espionage Act" works better in that instance!
cascadiance
Feb 2015
#27
Some may want to "hang the traitor" but fact is, he should not have to even face trial.
Scuba
Feb 2015
#13
Yeah, and he changed his mind. That's like saying Obama doesn't believe in gay marriage. nt
F4lconF16
Feb 2015
#78
I look at the full picture. Just because Dick Cheney supports same-sex marriage doesn't mean
NYC Liberal
Feb 2015
#195
So you would sit in a burning theater rather than listen to a teabagger tell you it's on fire?
cui bono
Feb 2015
#197
Obama used to believe in denying gays their right to marriage equality. He changed his mind
riderinthestorm
Feb 2015
#81
Maybe he learned new facts about what was going on in our government and that is why he
JDPriestly
Feb 2015
#124
You do not own national security documents. Sorry, but no country tolerates leakers.
randome
Feb 2015
#136
Not so funny. There are specific procedures to follow for being a whistleblower.
randome
Feb 2015
#164
And as has been noted hundreds of times on this board and many times in documentaries
cui bono
Feb 2015
#174
'Enormous increase'? A total of 8 individuals have been prosecuted under the Espionage Act...
randome
Feb 2015
#177
It only took 5 prosecutions to make it more than all other presidents combined.
cui bono
Feb 2015
#182
The people own the naitonal security documents. Leaking to the people who own the documents
JDPriestly
Feb 2015
#201
"Checks and balances" refers to the system of government, not to any specific statute.
merrily
Feb 2015
#308
Obama pushed the FISA Amendments Act to put greater restrictions on how data is handled.
randome
Feb 2015
#176
"Where he fled to if they decide to accuse him of anything, does he think the trial would be fairer?
Scuba
Feb 2015
#441
It's a very good documentary. So was Triumph of the Will. Just as American Sniper is a well-made
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#20
Well--certainly claiming that one is "Liberal" causes some on the Left to lose perspective.....
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#336
"some sources are so repugnant in their agenda that their content is beneath contempt."
Fumesucker
Feb 2015
#360
I'll let my autocorrect know you object to its grammar. It will be hurt.....but I give you this....
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#379
I'm sure it does, and I'm delighted that you took the time and effort to monitor my posts to
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#387
You, too!!! I'll be posting a few more things today, perhaps you can monitor them for me
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#395
Good heavens. I think you're suggesting that we discuss things on a discussion board.
DisgustipatedinCA
Feb 2015
#400
Yes.....like Birth of a Nation, and American Sniper, it is a brilliant film....it serves
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#268
It is an excellent documentary, which is the point of what Sontag said. That it cannot be
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#340
It's "one of the greatest films in history." Propaganda, but a great film, technically speaking.
MADem
Feb 2015
#302
Triumph of the Will was a Nazi government commissioned propaganda film not a documentary.
merrily
Feb 2015
#309
Maybe, but Triumph of the Will is not comparable to a privately made documentary.
merrily
Feb 2015
#472
Because we don't accept that people are "whistleblowers" just because they say they are. nt
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#31
Um, no--the "whole freakin' world" does not. Which is why Comrade Eddie is too scared to face
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#51
Illegal surveillance isn't something I support. I just don't get too bothered
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#90
"Grannie?" Why is that term an insult to you? Yes--Comrade Eddie. Guess who I call "James Blond?"
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#335
Hit the edit button and change it. Until you do, the snark is going to be a distraction.
DonViejo
Feb 2015
#37
"The fact that I'm told to suck it up on a Democratic board gives me pause."
bahrbearian
Feb 2015
#52
Do you also agree that the swiftboating of GG is no better than teabaggers? n/t
cui bono
Feb 2015
#112
At this point, unlike the NSA, Snowden certainly has little or no reason to lie about any of this,
99th_Monkey
Feb 2015
#34
Whistle blowers? No. Leakers? Well, I say laws and statutes should address that.
randome
Feb 2015
#38
Hmm... Is Twitter suing the NSA if the claim that the NSA had access to their data is "bullshit"?
cascadiance
Feb 2015
#44
Umm.. Twitter is suing because they are not ALLOWED (Aka NOT "public") to talk about...
cascadiance
Feb 2015
#60
If you're speaking of the FISA court, guess who nominated ALL of the justices on that court?
cascadiance
Feb 2015
#84
Because those who DO have evidence to support it have to leave the country...
cascadiance
Feb 2015
#98
John Kiriakou defended waterboarding, and Sibel Edmonds thinks Greenwald is a piece of crap---a
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#338
So... You are saying that Kiriako defended waterboarding more than others and
cascadiance
Feb 2015
#366
You're not going to claim that 33,000 warrants means the NSA is spying on the world, are you?
randome
Feb 2015
#120
And then when that evidence is presented you are prepared to throw the whistleblower in jail?
cui bono
Feb 2015
#200
If you're talking about Bush's AT&T operation, that was not the entire Internet.
randome
Feb 2015
#57
A fool is someone who hands millions of documents over to corporate media offices...
randome
Feb 2015
#61
I never said they were evidence of nothing. They were clearly 'evidence' of PRISM.
randome
Feb 2015
#79
I remember clearly how you would go on and on about how they were only powerpoint slides.
DesMoinesDem
Feb 2015
#134
Are you saying a fair portion of this board doesn't think we are the most vile,
BeyondGeography
Feb 2015
#116
Uh, the film is *about* an American whistleblower who is currently hiding from his own government
Marr
Feb 2015
#186
Who fled to Russia, where you can get killed for making films like Citizenfour
BeyondGeography
Feb 2015
#347
Awwww.. poor Snowden.. he's trying his damnedest to spread USA hate.. not sure if ol Putin is egging
Cha
Feb 2015
#266
Still can't believe he said that. I agree with Bill Maher, "he's stupid" & he has "machismo".
Tarheel_Dem
Feb 2015
#388
You might want to look up the definition of treason then as none of those parties mentioned
cstanleytech
Feb 2015
#226
Look At All The Authoritarins In This Thread... And Some Say... They Pratcice Law...
WillyT
Feb 2015
#218
There are those who would have us believe Michael Moore, Greenwald and other investigative
whereisjustice
Feb 2015
#232
Those who hate investigative journalists are more comfortable with GE and Monsanto
whereisjustice
Feb 2015
#235
"Black Fox: The Rise and Fall of Adolf Hitler," "Anne Frank Remembered,"...
WorseBeforeBetter
Feb 2015
#457
There's only one reason why a film should win an Oscar for best documentary and that is that
merrily
Feb 2015
#311
Wait, I can't be proud that Greenwald won and still have a dislike for Snowden
LynneSin
Feb 2015
#330
Meanwhile, your boy Greenie is on MSNBC decrying the Oscar's "disgusting opulence"
Blue_Tires
Feb 2015
#349
I saw the documentary. Snowden, IMO, articulated what he wanted to win, which was indeed
Nay
Feb 2015
#508
If only more government contractors did what Snowden did when they disagreed with policy.
randome
Feb 2015
#512
This is a huge thread, just making sure everything is ok. Did you eat the fish or chicken?
Rex
Feb 2015
#440
Those of you in this thread regurgitating the usual talking points who
Warren Stupidity
Feb 2015
#469
This has been an entertaining thread. It's sort of like that movie, The Purge.
randome
Feb 2015
#483