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MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
Sat Mar 14, 2015, 10:08 AM Mar 2015

Hillary's Email: How to deal with deleting selected items in a large amount of email. [View all]

People have been talking about the 30,000 or so emails deleted from Hillary Clinton's private server. Some are saying that every item should have been read by someone before a decision was made. Well, if you think about the time required to read and analyze that many emails, it's easy to understand why that wouldn't work very well at all.

In the first place, everyone doing the review would be people who had no role in creating the emails, either sent or received, and it would take a number of people to do the review in a timely way. It would take the originator far too long to do it alone. So, how would they decide which emails were related to the SOS's office and which were private?

That's simple: The reviewers would be given a long list of what to look for, including senders and recipients, terms that might indicate a SOS-related subject and other information that would need to be watched for. Quite a long list, really. Then, as they looked at the emails, they'd have to check to see if the senders, recipients or subject matter were in that list. If so, then the decision to delete or preserve could be made.

Not simple? You're right. Very difficult, actually, if people were used to do that review. Now, imagine this: Instead of providing a list of those things to people, you created a computerized search through that very large mass of information, looking for matches. The computer can easily compare all aspects of email to a list of any length. If a match indicates that the email is SOS-related, it is preserved. If no match occurs, then it can safely be deleted.

It's the same process, whether people or a computer does the comparison. The difference is really the time required, accuracy, completeness and objectivity. People are slow at such things. In the first place, they can't remember the entire list. In the second, they might not be entirely objective in making decisions. Finally, people miss things in doing such comparisons. The computer, on the other hand, does such comparisons quickly, completely, and without any human failings. Of course, the quality of the review depends on the data being compared and the skill of the programmer who designed the algorithm. But the same thing is true if people do the comparison.

Here's another thing to consider: Most of us have email client applications that check incoming emails and move some into a spam folder. This uses the same sort of data analysis. I use Yahoo mail. It has been a very long time since I found an email in my spam folder that did not belong there. Months, at least. I review the spam folder every day before permanently deleting everything in it. If there's any failing in that algorithm, it is in sending spam sometimes to my Inbox. It fails safe. If it doesn't know, it errs on the side of showing me the email. I add to its comparison data by marking such mail as spam after my own review.

Computers do a much better job at this type of comparison, and that's how Hillary Clinton's emails were reviewed. Data analysis and comparison is the sort of job that is ideal for computers. Humans do a crappy job of that sort of thing.

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If she just had separate work and personal email accounts MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #1
Naw... 99Forever Mar 2015 #2
If she had separate accounts, she'd still have had to decide to classify pnwmom Mar 2015 #91
Finally someone gets it. Right on pnwmom! rgbecker Mar 2015 #115
Actually it is the sender of the email that makes the decision ManiacJoe Mar 2015 #126
Yes, and I was talking about her actions when she send emails. n/t pnwmom Mar 2015 #134
And what then happens if an email gets sent to the wrong account? Thor_MN Mar 2015 #140
True, but she opted for convenience. Which was legal. JaneyVee Mar 2015 #3
And shows good judgement, amiright? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #5
It makes no difference to anyone except people who hate Hillary. DanTex Mar 2015 #6
True. One must first believe there was nefarious intent. JaneyVee Mar 2015 #8
That's exactly correct. FarPoint Mar 2015 #9
Incompetence and malfeasance only matter for people we hate MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #12
It's neither incompetence nor malfeasance. DanTex Mar 2015 #20
it's not incompetence Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #52
It's not malfeasance either. It's a choice of how to arrange emails. DanTex Mar 2015 #56
BINGO. And we ALL know how Manny feels about Hillary Clinton...or any other Democrat, reallly. eom BlueCaliDem Mar 2015 #59
Well if we're talking performance she comes out even worse Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #66
Hmm. But isn't it odd that the Hillary-haters are so obsessed with the email nonsense. DanTex Mar 2015 #69
I see the opposite Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #80
Interesting. So now it's Hillary's fault that Russia invaded Ukraine. DanTex Mar 2015 #86
Come on now Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #89
I think she did fine as SoS. Libya, and elsewhere. DanTex Mar 2015 #95
Let me provide you some information Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #98
Libya was nothing like Iraq. DanTex Mar 2015 #124
Whose record are you willing to discuss? Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #111
Anybody's Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #112
RW talking points, gotcha Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #113
If you're supporting someone as a primary opponent, MineralMan Mar 2015 #117
My vote is open to the best candidate Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #120
Pick one. MineralMan Mar 2015 #121
We'll see who's running Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #122
It was not provided in digital format because they wouldn't accept anything but paper. LiberalFighter Mar 2015 #136
Flip it the other way around. Igel Mar 2015 #46
This is not evidence of bad judgement. DanTex Mar 2015 #53
It's relevant to how she arranges her campaign and her potential presidency MBS Mar 2015 #97
How she arranges **her** e-mail is irrelevant. Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #129
I am afraid too many Hillary supporters have blinders on awake Mar 2015 #48
OK, maybe she misplayed it politically. But probably not. It will go away and nobody will care. DanTex Mar 2015 #57
Non-issue is another way of saying put your blinders back on awake Mar 2015 #68
What blinders? It's a non-issue. It hasn't affected polls. DanTex Mar 2015 #72
I do not trust polls that are a year and a half away from the election awake Mar 2015 #83
Of course you don't trust polls. They reflect political reality, which is not your friend here. DanTex Mar 2015 #88
The question is not the polls today the question is winning in 2016 awake Mar 2015 #96
We agree on that. DanTex Mar 2015 #125
With "blinders" you mean, people who aren't hawk-eyed focused on every tiny BlueCaliDem Mar 2015 #62
By blinders I mean not seeing the down side to stonewalling questions awake Mar 2015 #77
I don't think it matters either way. JaneyVee Mar 2015 #7
In 2009, a single phone could support two email accounts. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #13
So? I could have dozens of email accounts, and could MineralMan Mar 2015 #27
And again, MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #30
See, again, you have no idea about my business operations. MineralMan Mar 2015 #33
Remind me, who was it that brought up *your* email accounts as an example? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #35
I did, and you are trying to get me to make more than general MineralMan Mar 2015 #38
You wrote that ALL businesses have a legal obligation to retain their emails MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #42
I suggest Google. I am not your servant. MineralMan Mar 2015 #45
LOL! I cannot believe what people will say instead of just admitting they are wrong! Rex Mar 2015 #143
So I'm not hallucinating. MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #147
You want to hear something funny, Manny? MineralMan Mar 2015 #101
Glad I could help MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #146
Forget an apology, how about simply admitting to being wrong? Rex Mar 2015 #148
Good judgment if the aim was to actually preserve emails pnwmom Mar 2015 #94
But she didn't do that, which was OK at the time. MineralMan Mar 2015 #15
Do you have a legal obligation to retain work email? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #17
All businesses do. And I do retain them, for the recommended period. MineralMan Mar 2015 #21
There's a legal obligation to retain all business emails? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #23
What it "seems" like to you is irrelevant, frankly. MineralMan Mar 2015 #26
Ok, so how would *you* reconcile having to run an algorithm MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #31
Manny, I do not know how Hillary Clinton's private email server MineralMan Mar 2015 #47
I've never heard of businesses being legally required to save emails riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #123
That's because it is total bullshit. I can't believe some of the garbage I am reading. Rex Mar 2015 #142
No, if she had separate accounts she would have had to decide for each and every mail pnwmom Mar 2015 #90
It is a very different task to decide one e-mail at a time Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #133
You mean make new folders and *gasp* label them? MY GOD MAN! Rex Mar 2015 #127
It would had required two separate phones. LiberalFighter Mar 2015 #137
Would that be such a big deal? nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #139
Exactly. No one personally read 60,000+ emails. It was an automated purge job. randome Mar 2015 #4
Half a dozen lawyers and staff can do it in about two weeks. Tops. leveymg Mar 2015 #10
This isn't a discovery situation. nt stevenleser Mar 2015 #102
Exactly. This is a record-keeping question. MineralMan Mar 2015 #105
That's why the whole thing should have been turned over Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #11
Right now, it looks like she committed error upon error to evade revealing her official messages. leveymg Mar 2015 #16
Does it look like that? I don't know that it does, frankly. MineralMan Mar 2015 #24
I said, that's what it looks like. When and if her server is examined, assuming half the email leveymg Mar 2015 #32
You'll judge Hillary Clinton as you will judge her. MineralMan Mar 2015 #34
No, it doesn't. Not at all. nt stevenleser Mar 2015 #103
Can we take it, Steven, that's all you have to say? nt leveymg Mar 2015 #106
Spot on. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #145
That explanation pretty much shows all the criticsm for what it is, nonsense. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #14
Thanks. Having written many such review and sorting algorithms MineralMan Mar 2015 #18
having done actual e-discovery processing Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #22
You are correct. Actually, in really big cases, discovery and disclosure review are outsourced leveymg Mar 2015 #36
So true, the OP is pure BS. nt Logical Mar 2015 #43
Good thing this is not an e-discovery situation. nt stevenleser Mar 2015 #104
it will be Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #109
Hillary's lawyers seem to have applied an inverted sort of e-discovery solution. leveymg Mar 2015 #110
Your posts are always interesting and the computer posts are written so people like me learn a lot. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #25
My pleasure. MineralMan Mar 2015 #28
We haven't seen the full set of algorithms, just the examples given in the TIME article. leveymg Mar 2015 #19
Again, we have no information regarding the extent or MineralMan Mar 2015 #29
Don't assume that. You have no idea what my work experience includes. leveymg Mar 2015 #37
OK. Then you understand the process. MineralMan Mar 2015 #39
Do you, in any professional way? leveymg Mar 2015 #41
I think you are way overestimating your algorithms. And not sure why. nt Logical Mar 2015 #64
Not my algorithms. I had nothing to do with designing MineralMan Mar 2015 #71
"None of us knows the details" but you are SURE it worked better than people. LOL, OK, brilliant!! Logical Mar 2015 #75
No. I'm sure that effectively prepared data comparison algorithms MineralMan Mar 2015 #81
You are the one that made the claim that it was way more accurate than people...... Logical Mar 2015 #87
How could I "shut up" any discussion? MineralMan Mar 2015 #93
you can exclude documents deliberately with keyword choice Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #54
Oh, dear. Again, you're making assumptions based on zero information. MineralMan Mar 2015 #58
The Clinton Foundation is highly relevant and she herself made it so Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #74
See, I'm not trying to defend anything or anyone. MineralMan Mar 2015 #78
or "Boeing" antigop Mar 2015 #79
yikes Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #84
or "Lockheed Martin" or "Google" or "MasterCard" or "Dow Chemical" antigop Mar 2015 #85
You are going to need electric shock paddles to keep this "scandal" alive. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #40
I think they were waiting for an opportune moment to leak this. leveymg Mar 2015 #44
HRC is coming out of this like a champ. The GOP has gone down in flames in the past two weeks. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #49
So what do you know about Mr. Baron's political affiliations? nt greatlaurel Mar 2015 #51
Mr. Baron isn't the presumptive candidate for President. leveymg Mar 2015 #55
You should provide the information since you are using him as an important source. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #63
How am I relying on him, in particular? n/t leveymg Mar 2015 #67
Do not fool your self this is very much alive awake Mar 2015 #92
Algorithms are automated. Igel Mar 2015 #50
You know, I didn't mention anything other than how such a review MineralMan Mar 2015 #61
Why did any of it NEED to be deleted? n/t hughee99 Mar 2015 #60
People delete emails every day. Dr Hobbitstein Mar 2015 #70
Deleted emails aren't automatically "gone" from the server, nor do most people send or receive hughee99 Mar 2015 #76
She deleted personal emails. Dr Hobbitstein Mar 2015 #82
She deleted email that she determined to be not relevant to the national archives. hughee99 Mar 2015 #107
Just like everyone else. MineralMan Mar 2015 #108
I'm not arguing she did anything illegal, but I am arguing that she, and others who did this hughee99 Mar 2015 #114
Perhaps. Government email servers are lousy, in general, and were worse MineralMan Mar 2015 #116
You think the "government couldn't run an email system in 2008" defense is viable? hughee99 Mar 2015 #118
What I think is irrelevant. I have nothing to do with government email services. MineralMan Mar 2015 #119
I have limited email space at work Generic Other Mar 2015 #65
Yes, well, I'm sure the system used on Clinton's private email server MineralMan Mar 2015 #73
Honestly now Sick_of_TP Mar 2015 #99
Her private emails do not have to be made public at all. MineralMan Mar 2015 #100
Standard electronic discovery techniques are far more suited than what has been described. Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #128
As I have said, I do not know what process was used. MineralMan Mar 2015 #130
What I have seen described is a single filter, Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #131
Again, no details have been released. We have Hillary's MineralMan Mar 2015 #132
HRC will spend how much on lawyers? quadrature Mar 2015 #135
SORT BY NAME function. Everything to/from Chelsea immediately gets deleted. Hekate Mar 2015 #138
That's not quite how they did their review. morningfog Mar 2015 #141
No, it's not. RiverLover Mar 2015 #144
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