General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

5. It's much more than that for me although that is a big deal.

Thu May 7, 2015, 09:02 AM

May 2015

I know a lot of progressives that say the right political/policy things all the time. They shouldn't be President either.

I don't see any evidence that Bernie would be a successful President. I don't see the leadership ability, I don't think he would get any legislation passed, I don't think he has the chops to deal with Putin and I don't think he would be an effective foreign policy leader in general.

I think Republicans and the Conservative media and blogosphere would cause his Presidency to fail inside of three to six months.

He is in the best role for him right now. The outsider who can say anything and not really have it come back to hurt him. Up until the point where he says he is running for President, he's not responsible for anything and so can't be criticized for things failing. That even extends to writing bills that have no hope of being passed.

Now that he says he is running for President, however, it's appropriate to look at him and evaluate how effective he would be as President and use his legislative history to judge that. When I do that his fans here become all upset and suggest I am doing or saying something that is unfair.

It's as simple as looking at President Obama vs Bernie and realize that Bernie is no where near as good a speaker, or as inspirational as Obama, and yet he is claiming that he is going to get a lot more done and be much more progressive. And there is nothing in his resume that suggests he has the ability to do that.

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The Candidate I agree the MOST with on the issues is Bernie Sanders [View all] MohRokTah May 2015 OP

That's understandable el_bryanto May 2015 #1

If I voted my views in 2008, I would have gone with Kucinich. MohRokTah May 2015 #4

Well, I'll definitely vote for octoberlib May 2015 #2

I would definitely vote for Bernie if he won the nomination. MohRokTah May 2015 #3

It must be a real burden being able to see into the future. I think it's fine to Snotcicles May 2015 #44

Lay out Bernie's path to victory, then. MohRokTah May 2015 #46

First of all I think people aren't as afraid of that word as they once were. Snotcicles May 2015 #61

You didn't answer the question. MohRokTah May 2015 #75

You don't want to know BrotherIvan May 2015 #149

When Bernie can bypass the CORPORATE controlled media, people will discover he supports their issues cascadiance May 2015 #67

You failed to answer the question MohRokTah May 2015 #76

I think Americans now want to look beyond who the media tells them to buy ('er vote for) cascadiance May 2015 #109

Again, you failed to answer the question. MohRokTah May 2015 #111

And you fail to acknowledge that we don't think an election is ONLY about money! cascadiance May 2015 #124

And yet again, you failed to answer the questions. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #128

I don't need to, and I'm done arguing ludicrous points that don't really mean anything.... cascadiance May 2015 #129

There is NO point more important than victory in the GE. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #134

Welcome to Fantasy Island? yallerdawg May 2015 #138

Redder states don't vote for raising the minimum wage or legalizing pot... cascadiance May 2015 #155

The MYTH of redder states? yallerdawg May 2015 #156

More of that Sanders supporter magical thinking that we keep seeing stevenleser May 2015 #181

I hit my head against the same wall in another thread BrotherIvan May 2015 #150

Then why don't they elect members of Congress who support those views? NYC Liberal May 2015 #160

I disagree that he needs a billion dollars. nt Snotcicles May 2015 #83

You can disagree all you want. MohRokTah May 2015 #86

Thats what we are being told, I hear everyday by the same media outlets that will benefit. Snotcicles May 2015 #93

You don't have to "buy it", but neverless it is a FACT. MohRokTah May 2015 #94

It's not a FACT it's an assumption. We won't know until after the Fact. nt Snotcicles May 2015 #196

It IS A FACT MohRokTah May 2015 #197

It's much more than that for me although that is a big deal. stevenleser May 2015 #5

I think the MOST IMPORTANT question for our candidates is as follows. MohRokTah May 2015 #6

I strongly disagree Martin Eden May 2015 #42

Speculating using available evidence, i.e. 24 years in congress. That's a good basis. stevenleser May 2015 #43

Your objections make no sense. Martin Eden May 2015 #47

Vermont Republicans vote for him. immoderate May 2015 #58

The question was about Republicans in congress voting for his bills. stevenleser May 2015 #59

You mean, as opposed to the great cooperation from Republicans now? immoderate May 2015 #69

No. Once again, Bernie is running on being transformative, being especially progressive. And he cant stevenleser May 2015 #115

You can't say "can't" until it's been tried. immoderate May 2015 #121

Lol, of course. Republicans will pass living wage legislation because it's Bernie asking stevenleser May 2015 #180

Oh? Upon whose request do YOU think Republicans will pass living wage legislation? immoderate May 2015 #182

Bernie is the only one running on a transformative more progressive than thou platform stevenleser May 2015 #185

Yes. He is the only one. immoderate May 2015 #188

So again, how does he get that stuff passed. If he can't, his candidacy stevenleser May 2015 #191

Better to elect someone with no desire to pass the legislation? immoderate May 2015 #192

Better to elect someone who will put forward and pass ACA than try single payer and fail stevenleser May 2015 #193

ACA is passed. Does it matter that it's a scam? immoderate May 2015 #194

Does it matter that you think it's a scam? No. Nt stevenleser May 2015 #195

I disagree that he would not work with Republicans if he had to treestar May 2015 #90

Bernie would be willing to work with, but not capitulate to, Republicans Martin Eden May 2015 #105

WRONG! Without Bernie's leadership, we wouldn't have audited the Fed! cascadiance May 2015 #52

Hooray, we audited the Fed! And that changed no ones life at all. nt stevenleser May 2015 #54

How do you KNOW it didn't change anything. The public is more aware of what goes on in it. cascadiance May 2015 #70

Sunlight is the best disinfectant AgingAmerican May 2015 #118

I don't think he even intends to win treestar May 2015 #88

I don't either but of course it's sacrilege to say so. stevenleser May 2015 #100

I wonder if there will be any intelligent discussion about socialism during this campaign. world wide wally May 2015 #7

Yes, the US has cultural amnesia when it comes to socialism deutsey May 2015 #11

Like Sanders, I'm a Democratic Socialist deutsey May 2015 #8

personaly, i would disassociate him from the word, defining him as an early 80's dem. no more. seabeyond May 2015 #9

Here's the thing, for many of us, primaries are the exact time to vote for ideals. KittyWampus May 2015 #10

+1 deutsey May 2015 #12

. Rex May 2015 #13

. stevenleser May 2015 #14

Missed the point by that much! Rex May 2015 #15

Using an internet poll to make your point is simple foolishness. MohRokTah May 2015 #21

Ah but that poster says that WE don't get it. LMAO! stevenleser May 2015 #28

I'm waiting until I see the primary numbers, but I too am a practical democrat. aikoaiko May 2015 #16

This is why a Sanders/Cinton ticket is unbeatable. Sanders wins the primary & picks Clinton for VP. Hiraeth May 2015 #17

Which is why I vote for issues, policies, and principles. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #18

Which is OF COURSE why if you could magically pick the next POTUS...it would be HRC!!! Rex May 2015 #19

Right? merrily May 2015 #22

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words May 2015 #45

Oh no doubt! Rex May 2015 #56

Yes. Because Socialists are only slightly less hated in this country than Blacks. ieoeja May 2015 #20

Politically speaking, Socialists are unelectable in most of the country. MohRokTah May 2015 #23

+1 BrotherIvan May 2015 #151

It's early yet. Orsino May 2015 #24

I think Sanders would be buried by a lack of funding. MohRokTah May 2015 #25

I am very much afraid you're right. Orsino May 2015 #27

Progressive change has always been slow coming. MohRokTah May 2015 #33

But it hasn't had to fight this much money in a long, long time. n/t Orsino May 2015 #35

But it didn't have instant peer to peer communication across the nation when last it had to fight .. MohRokTah May 2015 #37

Yes. It always comes down to messaging. Orsino May 2015 #41

Blame yourself for no challenger to Hillary Ichingcarpenter May 2015 #26

The really remarkable thing is... yallerdawg May 2015 #30

I find it a passive aggressive behavior Ichingcarpenter May 2015 #31

He took the mantle of Socialist. MohRokTah May 2015 #38

I most certainly DO agree most with Bernie Sanders' positions. MohRokTah May 2015 #36

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #29

What the money people are depending on. mmonk May 2015 #32

I respect your views and opinions, with one caveat herding cats May 2015 #34

My IDEAL candidate in the primary is... MohRokTah May 2015 #39

So, what you're saying is your worried Bernie will win the primary? herding cats May 2015 #53

Nice way to push words into my mouth. MohRokTah May 2015 #74

I apologize for any confusion herding cats May 2015 #85

No, the Primary is when... brooklynite May 2015 #65

The thing is, sometimes Democrats don't agree on who should be sent to the GE herding cats May 2015 #84

I'm happy to vote for whichever candidate best meets my principles... brooklynite May 2015 #91

In 2008 I was in an unusual position. herding cats May 2015 #104

Thanks. Republicans have also tagged him with the "socialist" label. L0oniX May 2015 #40

If we would just for fucking ONCE get behind a person like Bernie he could change the country imnew May 2015 #50

You said it BrotherIvan May 2015 #153

He tagged himself with the term "Democratic Socialist" which simply means pnwmom May 2015 #62

Thanks for your explanation as to how we all should label him. I'll stick to "Democratic Socialist". L0oniX May 2015 #72

I don't agree with you about him unable to educate the vast majority imnew May 2015 #48

We'll have to agree to disagree. MohRokTah May 2015 #49

I disagree with you imnew May 2015 #51

I disagree with you MohRokTah May 2015 #73

The way to rehabilitate the word liberal (and socialist too) is to accept it and define it. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #55

Can't do that in 18 months. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #77

Can't do it at all until someone steps forward. Fortunately, he has. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #123

Won't change a thing. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #127

I don't believe Hillary can win a general election. AtomicKitten May 2015 #57

It is telling that the very first thing you cite against Hillary is the "husband that diddled an intern" pnwmom May 2015 #63

He got a free pass for that behavior at the time from Democrats. AtomicKitten May 2015 #66

FDR was given a free pass on his even more extensive sexual misbehavior. pnwmom May 2015 #68

Hold her responsible for his behavior? No. That's not what I said. AtomicKitten May 2015 #71

"Carpet bombing the opposition"? pnwmom May 2015 #95

This message was self-deleted by its author Long Drive May 2015 #120

Completely different media environment 75 years ago or even 50. Apples to bar stools. TheKentuckian May 2015 #183

True. But most Americans STILL didn't care what Bill Clinton was doing on the side pnwmom May 2015 #190

You must have lived in some other universe in 2008 than I did. MohRokTah May 2015 #78

well, it is a losing attitude going in. Kind of a Debbie Downer, I think. Hiraeth May 2015 #60

Then lay out his path to victory. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #79

Grassroots all the way. Social media such as FB. Hiraeth May 2015 #132

The Kucinich path to victory MohRokTah May 2015 #136

The repubs are genius at it. Eye roll that. Hiraeth May 2015 #154

The Republicans have money. MohRokTah May 2015 #157

yes, and they are tight with it. That is why they have a strong grass root. Hiraeth May 2015 #161

So again I ask, where does Bernie come up with the required $1 billion? eom MohRokTah May 2015 #162

Who said it is required? The status quo? Screw that. Think outside the box and make the effort. Hiraeth May 2015 #163

No $1 billion = GUARANTEED LOSS MohRokTah May 2015 #164

Do your part and help Bernie raise it. To admit defeat before you even try? I don't accept that. Hiraeth May 2015 #165

Nope, my contributions go to Hillary because I see no path to victory for Bernie. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #166

Tis the blind that can not see. My sympathies for your loss of eyesight. I really doubt Hiraeth May 2015 #167

Same back atcha. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #168

You're attempt to claim defeat for Bernie in the name of Hillary is pitiful. Hiraeth May 2015 #169

I'm not claiming shit. MohRokTah May 2015 #170

Where did you get your Crystal ball? Wal-Mart? You are pitiful. I feel sorry for you. Hiraeth May 2015 #171

Refuse to look at reality all you want. The price of admission to the White House is $1 billion. MohRokTah May 2015 #172

You are the one doing all the wishing. You and Hiraeth May 2015 #173

Can't take the truth. MohRokTah May 2015 #174

You'd prefer Sanders, but you think he can't win the general election. Iggo May 2015 #64

Pretty much. MohRokTah May 2015 #80

That makes no sense. HappyMe May 2015 #110

I'm just gonna go tilt at windmills, if that's alright with you.... mike_c May 2015 #81

Enjoy. MohRokTah May 2015 #82

Yes, it is not just agreement on issues treestar May 2015 #87

The very simple answer to the "unelectability" issue is: If he can beat Hillary, morningfog May 2015 #89

I don't buy that. MohRokTah May 2015 #92

There are many routes. morningfog May 2015 #96

The Democratic primaries are a microcosm of the electorate. MohRokTah May 2015 #97

It has nothing to do with being a microcosm. morningfog May 2015 #98

Taking on a fudnraising machine in a party primary is VERY DIFFERENT MohRokTah May 2015 #99

Today's numbers are the starting point. morningfog May 2015 #101

I think you're fooling yourself MohRokTah May 2015 #102

We'll see in a few months, won't we? morningfog May 2015 #106

I look forward to tellin you "I told you so" MohRokTah May 2015 #107

I'll have a plate of crow ready for you. morningfog May 2015 #108

I agree with Bernie and I will vote for him. HappyMe May 2015 #103

Yes, indeed. The corporate candidates want you to believe exactly that, & that is why I DO support mother earth May 2015 #112

Fortunately, there are no "corporate candidates" in the Democratic field. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #113

You can spot them by their donor list. nt mother earth May 2015 #114

It is illegal for corporations to donate to candidates. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #116

here: mother earth May 2015 #117

Those are listed EMPLOYERS of donors, NOT donors. MohRokTah May 2015 #119

Corporations Have Found Yet Another (Secret) Way To Help Get Politicians Elected mother earth May 2015 #122

And your first link has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. MohRokTah May 2015 #126

I'm calling BS on you if you think all of these "tiny little donations" that amount to billions are mother earth May 2015 #130

So you are saying that my employer made my donation to Obama MohRokTah May 2015 #135

No, I am saying corporations are making donations & it is all perfectly legal to do so. You are mother earth May 2015 #137

It is illegal for corporations to donate to campaigns. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #139

Refer to above in how they do so legally. nt mother earth May 2015 #140

Your links above prove my point MohRokTah May 2015 #141

No, you told me all of the "individual" donations listed above in my first reply are really little mother earth May 2015 #142

Individual donations are not donations from corporations MohRokTah May 2015 #143

Far from it. These "individual" donors are l%ers, with a vested interest in influence. The PACS mother earth May 2015 #144

So you think I am a 1 percenter then MohRokTah May 2015 #145

My link stands. She has corporate donors, she is in fact a corporate candidate, or she would not mother earth May 2015 #146

Your link is bullshit MohRokTah May 2015 #147

I've no doubt she has some small donators who work for corporations. My link is not bullshit, it mother earth May 2015 #148

Your link IS bullshit. MohRokTah May 2015 #184

There are no caps on donations, I've provided links to everything I'm stating, call it what you mother earth May 2015 #198

I'd rather Bernie ran under the same banner he's been waving since he went to Congress. Why... Tarheel_Dem May 2015 #125

What issues of Bernie's don't resonate with you? And which issues are not one's most Democrats think May 2015 #131

I would never back Bernie over the "Democrat" in the race. Tarheel_Dem May 2015 #133

Good, then when we change that outlook.... daleanime May 2015 #152

What is his path to victory? MohRokTah May 2015 #159

People > money.... daleanime May 2015 #175

I hear that every election. MohRokTah May 2015 #176

Sorry about that.... daleanime May 2015 #177

I'm working towards getting Hillary Clinton elected to the presidency. MohRokTah May 2015 #178

If your happy treading water..... daleanime May 2015 #179

Disissing the truth has always been the realm of idealists. MohRokTah May 2015 #186

Being willing to work toward your beliefs.... daleanime May 2015 #189

Issues drive my vote. LWolf May 2015 #158

Socialism is awesome. Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #187