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The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)

59. Perhaps any one of those would have swung a few thousand votes

Sat May 9, 2015, 10:14 PM

May 2015

but Nader was one person who pretended to be progressive, knew his spoiler position and relished it. He specifically stated he wanted to make things worse so they could get better. Had Nader not betrayed all his lifelong allies for whatever he got out of it, the world would have been spared the Cheney presidency. Things got a lot worse, and they did not get better as a result.

You make the point that any number of other dirty tricks might have made a difference too. But those kinds of attacks we face every election. To have one of our own intentionally betray us, out of vanity, vengeance or whatever motivated Nader, and who really gives a shit, makes him a traitor to liberalism, progressivism, and every other ally he ever used.

I wonder if Nader is finished with spoiler politics, or if he and Wormtongue are going to try to take over the Shire again.

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Regardless of whether Al Gore or Ralph Nader was to blame for "losing" the 2000 election... [View all] YoungDemCA May 2015 OP

I blame the group that brought a frivolous lawsuit to the SCOTUS Rex May 2015 #1

Sorry. No Nader, no Bush. despite any of the other factors. I don't defend BFEE, HERVEPA May 2015 #2

Sorry no 100k Dems voting for Bush in Florida, no recall. Rex May 2015 #3

Nope. My point is if Nader doesn't run, Gore wins. HERVEPA May 2015 #7

There's no truth to your claim either. The majority of Exilednight May 2015 #28

Got supporting facts? riqster May 2015 #36

Just look at exit polling. Exilednight May 2015 #40

I'll take that as a "no", then. riqster May 2015 #63

Take it however you like. n/t Exilednight May 2015 #64

Res ipsa loquitur DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #70

I want to see the poll itself, not a blog article Exilednight May 2015 #80

Here's the exit poll results from a Harvard Political Science professor for a paper DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #81

That's a paper about the poll, not the poll. Exilednight May 2015 #83

It's a peer reviewed paper for the American Political Science Association DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #84

Even peer reviewed papers have a bias when it Exilednight May 2015 #85

It's really not a claim but an empirical observation... DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #86

It doesn't committ those people to turning out to Exilednight May 2015 #87

Should Republicans and Democrats be written into the US constitution? Scootaloo May 2015 #34

Horrible idea. If I had it my way, there would be a Exilednight May 2015 #43

Exsctly MaggieD May 2015 #52

Nader torpedoed Gore in Florida Tommy2Tone May 2015 #62

Also New Hampshire, which would have also carried it for Gore The Second Stone May 2015 #76

Nader took as many votes from Bush as he took from Gore CrawlingChaos May 2015 #69

Please see Post 70./NT DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #71

Hmmm... not the way I remember it CrawlingChaos May 2015 #74

Supreme Court mendacity was also a factor in the loss... DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #75

You should be interested in teh recount done by the Press Sindicate nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #100

The real action wasn't in Palm Beach or Broward county... DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #102

I agree with you nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #103

There were multiple reasons why Gore lost FL DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #104

and what gets me about the Nader bashing nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #105

Neither was to blame One of the 99 May 2015 #4

Same as in other threads 1939 May 2015 #5

True, but Vice President Gore winning his homestate yeoman6987 May 2015 #39

200,000 Florida Democrats voting for Bush didn't help Scootaloo May 2015 #6

Not relevant to whether Nader cost Gore the election. HERVEPA May 2015 #8

It is in fact incredibly relevant, because it answers the question. The answer is "no." Scootaloo May 2015 #10

Your analytical skills are sorely lacking, nay, nonexistent. HERVEPA May 2015 #11

No, they're quite good Scootaloo May 2015 #12

Impressive analysis Scoot. RiverLover May 2015 #14

i blame Nader for lying and saying Gore and Bush were the same JI7 May 2015 #25

because this was a brand-new sentiment that Nader introduced to American politics? Scootaloo May 2015 #26

because it was not true JI7 May 2015 #29

But 'the parties are the same" is not a remotely new sentiment in US politics Scootaloo May 2015 #33

many things aren't new , doesn't mean one has to ignore when others push JI7 May 2015 #35

I think you're trying to shoehorn your own beliefs back in time Scootaloo May 2015 #50

no he wasn't, there is a reason he focused on swing states JI7 May 2015 #66

(Nader) haters gonna hate. What can you do? (Although you are exhibiting the KingCharlemagne May 2015 #27

Oh, don't get me wrong, nader can go get fucked... Scootaloo May 2015 #31

I hear ya. And America got torture, incompetence on a scale not seen KingCharlemagne May 2015 #38

+1. n/t winter is coming May 2015 #44

"Reagan Democrat shitheads" 1939 May 2015 #82

But it is far easier to blame the voters nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #91

And the SAME people here that demand obedience...gee they just let those in 2000 Rex May 2015 #9

I've often wondered why defecting to the Republicans rarely rates a mention, winter is coming May 2015 #20

those democrats wanted a conservative so they went for Bush JI7 May 2015 #23

Presumably, the Dems who voted for Nader wanted something different, too, winter is coming May 2015 #41

well, there are people who actually think ted cruz and palin JI7 May 2015 #48

Don't see what that has to do with my observation winter is coming May 2015 #49

those democrats wanted Bush to win and for Gore to lose JI7 May 2015 #24

Nader took 20,000 votes from Gore in Florida which made the results close enough for world wide wally May 2015 #13

Thank you. Yet some people seem unable to digest this simple fact. No Nader, no Bush HERVEPA May 2015 #15

That is simplistic thinking. We have no way of knowing what else bush was willing to do to steal it. morningfog May 2015 #55

Says nobody but you. 99Forever May 2015 #37

Good of you to comment on your own post right in the post HERVEPA May 2015 #65

He also spoiled New Hampshire The Second Stone May 2015 #77

I blame Sandra Day O'Connor. nt No Vested Interest May 2015 #16

^Reagan appointee. world wide wally May 2015 #17

Don't forget Lieberman melman May 2015 #18

I was not eager to make him 2nd in command. nt Bonobo May 2015 #32

Couldn't anyone have checked the ballots in Florida and made a fuss about the butterfly ballot? Chathamization May 2015 #19

Al Gore didn't lose the election, but he lost sight of his obligations. True Blue Door May 2015 #21

SCOTUS has set the stage for ruin. GeorgeGist May 2015 #22

Gore was a terrible candidate LittleBlue May 2015 #30

And when the election came down to whom you'd prefer to have a beer with, why KingCharlemagne May 2015 #45

Yep. That's the way it works unfortunately LittleBlue May 2015 #51

Yes, Ralph Nader is an enemy of democracy and did everything he could to split the vote The Second Stone May 2015 #42

Why did Gore concede? - nt KingCharlemagne May 2015 #46

Entertaining but my list has nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #53

And then there was the Florida legislature's pledge Art_from_Ark May 2015 #56

Thanks, somehow I forgot that MAJOR detail nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #57

There were so many Republican shenanigans going on in Florida at the time, Art_from_Ark May 2015 #58

And we have not touched on 2004 nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #61

CIA guy put himself in charge of absentee ballots to help GOP... Octafish May 2015 #89

And if Nader hadn't also spoiled New Hampshire, Florida's electoral votes could have The Second Stone May 2015 #78

And if Gore won Arkansas or Tennessee, which he did not nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #99

Perhaps any one of those would have swung a few thousand votes The Second Stone May 2015 #59

One of them would have been enough, iike 70K Reagan Democrats nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #60

Yes, I remember it well, and with the dirty tricks that we see in most elections The Second Stone May 2015 #67

Nader was a third party pol nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #68

Another thing the right wing is/was wrong about. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #72

Ross Perot absolutely ran to spoil the race of GHW Bush and throw it to Clinton The Second Stone May 2015 #73

Third parties exist nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #90

Nice for you to admit that is how they are used The Second Stone May 2015 #97

Nope no admission there nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #98

You can't forget current Florida Democratic Chair Allison Tant think May 2015 #47

This can't be emphasized enough sketchy May 2015 #54

I voted in 2000 - I think Aerows May 2015 #79

Here's who stole the 2000 election... Octafish May 2015 #88

They were a large part yes. nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #92

It was part of a Big Act. Octafish May 2015 #93

The problem these but Nader guys have nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #94

The Five Stooges YoungDemCA May 2015 #95

Those are the biggest enemies of American democracy that we have ever seen world wide wally May 2015 #96

I Voted for Nader HassleCat May 2015 #101