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daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:15 PM Jun 2015

Attacks on SSI/SSDI Should Not Be Part of the Democratic Policy Position [View all]

Last edited Sun Jun 7, 2015, 05:11 PM - Edit history (3)

Posting OPs or comments about the "fraud and waste" that plagues SSI/SSDI is a backdoor to a discussion about "cutting entitlements", and more specifically "stealth welfare". This anti-SSI/SSDI propaganda comes straight from Fox News, and it is only supported by the occasional scandal (which is duly prosecuted by law enforcement) and a lot of personal anecdotes. Just like the perpetual astroturf on welfare, everyone "knows" someone who got away with cheating SSI/SSDI.

Yet everyone who has actually applied for SSI/SSDI knows what a red tape nightmare the process has become - chiefly because the system is overburdened by all the qualification checks, bureaucratic documentation, and fraud investigations to address the continuous accusations of screeching concerned citizens. It is now practically impossible to get SSI/SSDI without a lawyer, which creates a major access barrier for lower income people with emerging disabilities. If you are under 60, your case gets automatically denied and you usually have to appeal twice, and the process takes around three years. If you do manage to get on SSI/SSDI after 3 years, you are still subject to regular reviews. You can also be reported for fraud at any time. It always baffles me why those people who are so irked about knowing "someone" committing fraud didn't simply report it.

Those people who had to wait three years lived in poverty, often in torturous conditions: sometimes they lived with family who didn't want to take care of them and sometimes they lived on welfare. OFTEN they became homeless. Sometimes they died while waiting to get SSI/SSDI.

Once you have SSI/SSDI, you will continue to live in poverty. It's less than $900/month, and you are ineligible for food stamps. You are allowed to work (swapping out your aid for what you earn) but if you go over a certain amount you will lose your benefits. You are allowed to save very little - even through fancy mechanisms that the government has created to try to help people on SSI save to go to school or make a very small down-payment on a house). When you have to work you have to go through the hassle of reporting your salary - I believe it's on a weekly basis.

And of course you will be surveilled the whole time and have to go through regular reviews to see if you are still medically qualified for SSI/SSDI.

Like welfare, the government does as much as they can to make sure that this program is NOT WORTH IT. That it is demeaning, cumbersome, a hassle, and barely survivable to live on. Taxpayers long before the current crop of "concerned citizens" were poking in their noses to make sure no person could feel comfortable to "depend" on SSI/SSDI even if they were blind and deaf from birth and there could be absolutely no argument about their qualification to be in the program.

I especially hope those on Team Hillary are listening and will take up this message. Her platform is weak on poverty issues right now, and as long as SSI/SSDI is being treated as "stealth welfare", it's vulnerable to cuts and/or further bureaucratic over-burderning that will lead to cuts down the line. SSI/SSDI needs to be actively defended, and it needs to be expanded. The recipients live in poverty in major urban areas: they need help with food and housing. I would advocate streamlining and simplifying the program so people wouldn't need to hire a lawyer and they could easily step in and out of disability coverage as needed.

I don't think DU would stand for it if someone posted an OP advocating the elimination of Social Security retirement benefits. They would recognize that as a Republican talking point, not part of the Democratic platform. Framing SSI/SSDI as a fraud-plagued entitled should be recognized in that same light. I honestly don't get why this is even seen as a matter for debate. We could debate banning abortions, too: but that's not up for debate here because it's a right-wing talking point. Well, so is treating SSI/SSDI as "stealth welfare" that can be had by anyone who complains of having a "backache and depression".

Please step up and recognize that anti-SSI/SSDI propaganda is spreading Fox News talking points and DU discussion should be creating policy around supporting SSI/SSDI (or transcending it with better ideas).

UPDATE: in another thread edhopper posted links to articles that cover the facts about how small a "problem" SSI/SSDI fraud really is. I'm reposting the articles here for the purpose of general education:

Social Security Disability Fraud is Rare: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/195559-social-secuity-disability-fraud-is-rare

Nine Facts That Prove Disability Insurance Isn’t A Giant Boondoggle: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/16/2787821/facts-disability-insurance/

Right-Wing Media Miss The Facts On Disability Fraud: http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/06/28/right-wing-media-miss-the-facts-on-disability-f/194669

Update 2: A commenter pointed out that people living on SSI/SSDI are also living in poverty. I don't want to change the flow of my argument by going into the different circumstances for poverty in urban and rural areas - but I will add here people on SSI/SSDI in rural areas also live in poverty and face the additional burdens of lack of public transportation, lack of Internet access, lack of access to community agencies, and lack of access to legal advocates that can help them sort through the mind-boggling problems government programs continually subject poor people to. I would choose urban poverty any day because there is greater chance of finding a lifeline in a time of crisis here.

Update 3: MattP noted that SSI is currently being swiftboated with a phony "overpayments" scandal. People who work while on SSI must report their status an income weekly: you can only imagine the bureaucratic red tape that entails. In the end, the government always recovers the money, and normal people are always stuck with the hassle and extra expense. Here is a great article from CNNMoney on what the overpayments situation really means for all involved: http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/28/pf/social-security-overpaid/

Note that article claims the Social Security Administration actually works at a 99% accuracy rate. Wow! Finally, this is what Sean Brune, a senior advisor at the Social Security Administration, told a U.S. Senate panel regarding the SSI overpayments audit:

“Let me make clear that while we work diligently to correct and pursue them, improper payments do not equate with fraud. Improper payments can occur for a number of reasons, some of which are outside the control of the beneficiary or the agency.”


Source: http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2015/03/18/ssi-flagged-improper-spending/20143/

104 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'd like it part of the general funding and not Social Security yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #1
I'm a fan of Mincome and eliminating the poverty bureaucracy all together. nt daredtowork Jun 2015 #3
I kinda like that too. yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #5
The same thing happens to Social Security daredtowork Jun 2015 #6
It is basically razing the floor. It would cause upaloopa Jun 2015 #7
Economists always say that but daredtowork Jun 2015 #9
Economics is not a moral exercise upaloopa Jun 2015 #13
Policy is a moral exercise daredtowork Jun 2015 #14
There are many theories and fields JonLP24 Jun 2015 #37
At the risk of being a spelling nazi, I have to point out... JHB Jun 2015 #39
Especially when many of us on Social Security never make more than $10,000 now. jwirr Jun 2015 #48
You are assuming that most of the recipients are somehow cured? Let us make a list: children jwirr Jun 2015 #47
I work for county government upaloopa Jun 2015 #2
Undermining SSI/SSDI is going backwards. nt daredtowork Jun 2015 #4
That is true and thank you for helping in that effort. But the truth is that all county/state jwirr Jun 2015 #49
I am in CA so I understand what you are saying upaloopa Jun 2015 #67
There is differences by county here daredtowork Jun 2015 #68
I still think that denying fraud or attacking people who complain about it hfojvt Jun 2015 #8
The simple fact is the evidence of fraud comes from people getting caught. daredtowork Jun 2015 #12
yes, that is the true waste.. I have been amazed at how convoluted the process is, Voice for Peace Jun 2015 #80
But you can't talk about SS fraud without comparing it to the BIG FRAUD valerief Jun 2015 #44
You make a good point and it very well could be the cuts to these programs that are causing the jwirr Jun 2015 #50
Doesn't the federal government owe the ss trust fund money? ms liberty Jun 2015 #10
Funds collected by FICA are the single largest creditor to the United States government. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #34
The US government owes almost 19 Trillion dollars Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #41
The RW never discusses the biggest source of fraud in the Government- Defense n2doc Jun 2015 #11
+1! And the media aids them in their deception. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #35
zactly. Duppers Jun 2015 #77
K&R n/t BuelahWitch Jun 2015 #15
I receive ssdi ssi medicaid medicare John_Doe80004 Jun 2015 #16
Because of the food stamps trade off in California daredtowork Jun 2015 #20
It is posts like this that break my heart. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #42
I don't think we were better then this yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #51
After FDR we were definitely better - post raygun not. jwirr Jun 2015 #53
What happened - hate churches, raygonomics, faux news and more. We have let a few lead us jwirr Jun 2015 #52
I was denied SSDI once... StarzGuy Jun 2015 #72
...and I forgot to say... StarzGuy Jun 2015 #75
Most people on SSI around here use food pantries daredtowork Jun 2015 #85
My 41-yr-old quadriplegic (from birth) daughter has to periodically prove she is still disabled. deurbano Jun 2015 #17
You need a law degree to navigate the work and savings programs! nt daredtowork Jun 2015 #21
but don't you get it? there's NO LINE any more: not SS, not war, not the old "live boy or MisterP Jun 2015 #18
Thanks to everyone for their posts. SheilaT Jun 2015 #19
The biggest problem is those who need it not getting it daredtowork Jun 2015 #23
My son-in-law was hurt in the military years ago. He got a 40 percent disability. Now 20+ years jwirr Jun 2015 #56
The way the system works against poor people daredtowork Jun 2015 #76
in my last post i forgot to expand John_Doe80004 Jun 2015 #24
Yep, constantly having to "prove it". nt daredtowork Jun 2015 #28
I did not mention this in the other thread Texasgal Jun 2015 #22
I have to say...I feel sooo sorry you live in Texas. T_T daredtowork Jun 2015 #25
Oh, let me say it sucks! Texasgal Jun 2015 #26
Hopefully the case won't go to appeal and need to be decided by a Texas judge. T_T nt daredtowork Jun 2015 #29
I'm very sorry to hear about your husbands condition independentpiney Jun 2015 #40
Interesting daredtowork Jun 2015 #66
K&R me b zola Jun 2015 #27
People applying for/on SSI MUST have family and friends to help Dems to Win Jun 2015 #30
You are lucky it only took 5 months daredtowork Jun 2015 #31
Whoa. I hadn't realized I was lucky in any way. (chuckle) Dems to Win Jun 2015 #32
Took me three years DonCoquixote Jun 2015 #79
Republican politicians think because they went to school yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #54
K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Jun 2015 #33
It is very difficult to get it JonLP24 Jun 2015 #36
Automatic rejection saves money for the State at the expense of the disabled daredtowork Jun 2015 #43
There is an exception for persons who have never worked due to a disability. My daughter gets jwirr Jun 2015 #62
The poor are the last, Utopian Leftist Jun 2015 #38
It's bad enough that we have to constantly combat Republican lies daredtowork Jun 2015 #45
When you see comments like that be sure to call them on it. And in many cases it's something you can totodeinhere Jun 2015 #60
I attempted to alert on a lie daredtowork Jun 2015 #65
Alerting is always a crap shoot. And I'm not sure if merely lying is something to totodeinhere Jun 2015 #70
The ugly truth and it's obscene, evil. appalachiablue Jun 2015 #95
It can be much more than $900.00 per month Go Vols Jun 2015 #46
In some cases that's true, but the general drift of what the OP said is sadly very true. n/t totodeinhere Jun 2015 #59
Since I'm only eligible for SSI, that's why I use the "under $900" figure. daredtowork Jun 2015 #64
I mentioned the max limit Go Vols Jun 2015 #90
I would imagine you're the exception rather than the rule, though. nt daredtowork Jun 2015 #91
A vote for a politician that sees SS as an expense is like cutting your own throat, but a slower jtuck004 Jun 2015 #55
Death of a thousand financial cuts? daredtowork Jun 2015 #63
K&R. TexasTowelie Jun 2015 #57
I have one addition to your comment. totodeinhere Jun 2015 #58
I stand corrected daredtowork Jun 2015 #61
I personally am not on SSI. But a course I took recently covered the topic of totodeinhere Jun 2015 #69
I grew up in a rural area daredtowork Jun 2015 #71
Yes those are issues and it varies from place to place but it's especially bad totodeinhere Jun 2015 #81
The more I hear about the VA system daredtowork Jun 2015 #83
The recent article on DU about 900 eastern Kentucky residents being thrown off appalachiablue Jun 2015 #96
Ah the smell of the 1% taking over the democratic party. L0oniX Jun 2015 #73
Let the disabled eat cake? nt daredtowork Jun 2015 #74
I am awaiting the results of my disability exam AndreaCG Jun 2015 #78
The food stamp exclusion is only in California daredtowork Jun 2015 #82
Fuckin A! TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #84
To clarify and kick this thread mentalsolstice Jun 2015 #86
K&R mentalsolstice Jun 2015 #87
Thanks for your clarification daredtowork Jun 2015 #88
Unfortunately DU yawns when it comes to persons with disabilities mentalsolstice Jun 2015 #89
BUMP for update concerning new phony SSI overpayments scandal daredtowork Jun 2015 #92
here is the real reason for the attacks on Social Security Benefits John_Doe80004 Jun 2015 #93
Outstanding Find! There is no "Social Security Crisis" either... daredtowork Jun 2015 #94
Billionaire financier Pete Peterson has spent decades and millions trying to get his hands appalachiablue Jun 2015 #97
Do you have link to that video? daredtowork Jun 2015 #98
Absolutely, the RW stink tanks and spinners keep all the lies circulating at the top and appalachiablue Jun 2015 #99
If it was Hartmann, I hope he reruns it. daredtowork Jun 2015 #100
I can believe that stunt about Google- Eric Schmidt, whew. I sense a lot of appalachiablue Jun 2015 #102
I'd venture that the esteem Ryan holds for Erskine Bowels and Clinton goes beyond appalachiablue Jun 2015 #103
This has to be the same occasion, but you can see where the video has been clipped appalachiablue Jun 2015 #101
The fraud and waste is a drop in the bucket compared to fraud and waste in military spending. alarimer Jun 2015 #104
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