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pampango

(24,692 posts)

21. Looks like hourly compensation stagnated particularly from the mid-70's to the mid-90's,

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:38 AM

Jul 2015

then again from about '02 to '08.

Seems that the only periods since 1970 in which the rise in hourly compensation even came close to the rise in productivity was 1974-77 and 1995-02. The 1980's and early 90's were a particularly terrible period, as was 2002-08. There must be a lesson there.

Recursion, I must say that using charts and statistics to try to question that what people think they KNOW to be true (or false) about something, whether it is wage stagnation or climate change, is a perilous effort. If my view of politics and the world is tied to a certain set of beliefs, you will have a difficult time convincing me through charts and statistics that I need to make fundamental change in my beliefs.

I don't think we know what a genuinely shared prosperity in the US would look like because it hasn't happened yet, and if we need a New New Deal to get there, it's going to have to be so fundamentally and structurally different than the original one, to avoid the great disparities listed above, as to be nearly unrecognizable.

I don't agree. The New Deal set a standard for "genuinely shared prosperity" even though it did not reach women and minorities. I would argue that much of the divergence of hourly compensation from productivity came from the increasing abandonment of the New Deal. Resurrecting the New Deal and linking it to modern civil rights legislation, which did not exist in the 1930's and 40's, could produce a "genuinely shared prosperity" that includes minorities and women.

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I'm going to post a chart you've seen a million times before (the myth of wage stagnation) [View all] Recursion Jul 2015 OP

LOL. "Before the early 1970s, the only group that was seeing their income increase was white males" PSPS Jul 2015 #1

Yes, that is the middle class white male narrative Recursion Jul 2015 #2

Rather, women were expected to stay home with the kids. hedda_foil Jul 2015 #3

And women who worked as a housekeeper part time weren't counted in wage surveys Recursion Jul 2015 #4

Absolutely. And teachers (the career track for girls too upscale to be "just secretaries" ) ... hedda_foil Jul 2015 #6

This post is cringeworthy on so many levels. nt geek tragedy Jul 2015 #7

Sadly that is true. Now... Emelina Jul 2015 #8

You are mistaken - the actual world was NOT Ozzie & Harriet. KentuckyWoman Jul 2015 #64

And the average house was a lot smaller, had fewer bedrooms and bathrooms. And many families raccoon Jul 2015 #78

In what sense is the one time rental of a limo mythology Jul 2015 #79

It's a pet peeve of mine. nt raccoon Jul 2015 #81

Which leads to the conclusion that a single earner could support a family today Recursion Jul 2015 #87

ALL workers are still getting screwed. Since 1972, productivity up 250%. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #5

Thank you. PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #10

^^That Orrex Jul 2015 #19

+1! snot Jul 2015 #52

Thanks. The "aww, poor, whiny white guys" angle isn't an answer to the obvious wage problem. n/t Beartracks Jul 2015 #66

No, it's not an answer, but it's a first step towards one Recursion Jul 2015 #94

Second step: outsourcing all jobs to low wage countries PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #95

Well, we're the ones who keep buying cheap shirts from Bangladesh Recursion Jul 2015 #97

I do agree with you on PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #101

Socialism (in the real Marx sense) is probably the best way to do a universal income Recursion Jul 2015 #104

Ok. PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #108

No, people just make a lot of assumptions about me. I've posted more about minimum income than trade Recursion Jul 2015 #109

People pick up on right wing phrasing very easily here PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #110

I live and work in a city where 10,000 people die from waterborne illnesses every year Recursion Jul 2015 #114

You have some good points PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #116

Poverty isn't a competition. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #120

Here's the world income distribution Recursion Jul 2015 #121

Hah ha ha, troll. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #122

I can see that. But even those gains have been below what they SHOULD have been. Beartracks Jul 2015 #119

All the RWing blah blah to avoid talking about Reaganomics. Rex Jul 2015 #107

Thanks. I don't need to look at any charts to know the OP is bullshit. I live in 2015 reality and I GoneFishin Jul 2015 #111

Yup. CentralMass Jul 2015 #117

Compelling enough for me. joshcryer Jul 2015 #9

I am impressed. TM99 Jul 2015 #11

/\_/\_This right here_/\_/\ Scuba Jul 2015 #16

Yes! tenderfoot Jul 2015 #53

Amazing. tymorial Jul 2015 #57

Indeed. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #77

It's insulting for Democrats to have this RW trash pushed on us day after day. nt Zorra Jul 2015 #80

+1 CentralMass Jul 2015 #118

+1 Marr Jul 2015 #90

+1. Thanks. GoneFishin Jul 2015 #112

What do you do for a living? B Calm Jul 2015 #12

UNIX administration Recursion Jul 2015 #14

It's always helpful to know where you are coming from. If you worked an hourly labor job B Calm Jul 2015 #15

It is hourly. My forklift days were years ago Recursion Jul 2015 #18

The average UNIX administrator salary is $92,000, do you think that's what hourly employees B Calm Jul 2015 #20

Do you think that's what I make, working for an NGO? Recursion Jul 2015 #23

Just going with what Google tells me. B Calm Jul 2015 #26

I lulz'd. KG Jul 2015 #13

Scott Walker would be so proud! Scuba Jul 2015 #17

Looks like hourly compensation stagnated particularly from the mid-70's to the mid-90's, pampango Jul 2015 #21

I'm old enough to know middle classes wages have been on the decline mmonk Jul 2015 #22

"2013 dollars" means accounting for inflation (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #24

I understand what the term means. mmonk Jul 2015 #25

I'm curious how that can be since real median income for men is higher now than say 1960 Recursion Jul 2015 #28

You may want to check into costs not associated with the graphs. mmonk Jul 2015 #29

Housing and medicine are factored into CPI though Recursion Jul 2015 #31

There are, I think, many factors such as declines in pensions for 401 K's and such for an example. mmonk Jul 2015 #34

Also, the greater the income gap between the richest and the typical American family is, mmonk Jul 2015 #36

medians are not skewed by outliers. That's the point of medians. whatthehey Jul 2015 #44

The 20:20 ratio is a much better way to determine the effects of income inequality in terms of mmonk Jul 2015 #45

Medians are not intended to show inequality whatthehey Jul 2015 #48

The problem with just using standard median is it doesn't give a complete mmonk Jul 2015 #49

Notice the drop in household median income from the collapse in 2008 to 2012. mmonk Jul 2015 #51

. mmonk Jul 2015 #46

This is the over-arching issue. ronnie624 Jul 2015 #75

So right you are. Well stated. mmonk Jul 2015 #103

Yay! We can all EQUALLY be in poverty together! Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #27

They don't even drain off to shareholders anymore Recursion Jul 2015 #33

So? At best this shows a time old employer tactic: "bring in cheaper workers" Tom Rinaldo Jul 2015 #30

The early 70's rock Jul 2015 #32

There's probably something to that (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #85

Interesting perspective. So is the denominator in first graph total paid working hours? lostnfound Jul 2015 #35

Within specific standard occupations, generally no Recursion Jul 2015 #38

You may not be aware of this-- Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #37

It would be hard to argue that expanding the labor pool didn't push wages down Recursion Jul 2015 #39

Meh. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #40

The middle class single earner family was temporary The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #43

^^^ That Recursion Jul 2015 #115

Well it is just a numbers game The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #42

LOL. Another hit from the Socialists...for Hillary??? club! nt Romulox Jul 2015 #56

Pardon? Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #58

I just think that supporting the fabulously wealthy Corporate-backed candidate is the solution... Romulox Jul 2015 #59

You're right. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #62

I'm glad you know the names of several cities in Michigan, but this is all a bit random. Romulox Jul 2015 #70

What were you proposing I rebut? I missed your point, except you object to my presence. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #71

I want to know what the Hamtramck insult is supposed to mean. Romulox Jul 2015 #72

I didn't say anything was wrong with it at all. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #73

You're not good at playing coy. Very lame. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #74

This is easily explained. Exilednight Jul 2015 #41

Imo this OP is pizza worthy PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #47

AGREED. It is time for a RIGHTWINGER to banned from DU for a change. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #55

Seriously. Pushing right wing ideas is apparently perfectly acceptable LondonReign2 Jul 2015 #63

I agree. /nt Marr Jul 2015 #91

Your first bolded text is a non sequitur. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #50

+1 Hissyspit Jul 2015 #60

Terrific post. TM99 Jul 2015 #82

You're right, I had that part upside down. Will edit OP (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #86

inaccurate. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #92

Oh excuse me, only *half again* white women's income gains Recursion Jul 2015 #93

You were *only* off by a factor of two? A huge difference? YMMV. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #96

Fine, I'll edit to "significantly more than" (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #98

Don't stop editing yet. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #99

You're right, I read that part completely wrong. Recursion Jul 2015 #106

We're making progress, but we're not there yet. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #113

Another in the "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THAT CURTAIN!" series. Romulox Jul 2015 #54

Pretty much-- along with the standard divide and conquer appeal to identity politics and Marr Jul 2015 #89

Oh, for christ's sake... Hissyspit Jul 2015 #61

Third Way Horseshit. Going All In with Rovian HRC campaign race baiting Teamster Jeff Jul 2015 #65

Might also have to do with white men monopolizing "skilled" work for much of America's history YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #67

I think you are partly right but have the chicken vs egg backwards KentuckyWoman Jul 2015 #68

It Seems To Me RobinA Jul 2015 #69

No, I'm not assuming that. I'm assuming white men held a monopoly on higher paying fields Recursion Jul 2015 #84

Let's have some music to go with Recursion's post, courtesy of Eduard Khil Scootaloo Jul 2015 #76

OH good. You've taken up with the Troy University set with this latest hilarity. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #83

What Orlando Letelier said... Octafish Jul 2015 #88

It is funny watching them admit to living in a plutocracy. The OP will turn Rex Jul 2015 #102

All that to avoid talking about Reaganomics. Rex Jul 2015 #100

Yes, trickle down fetishism was a big part of this Recursion Jul 2015 #105