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lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
50. Your first bolded text is a non sequitur.
Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:52 AM
Jul 2015
nothing about the data you've provided indicates that wage growth prior to 1972 was limited to white men. What you have shown is that since 1972, women have entered the workforce, and in the face of declining wages for men, it is easy to infer that this was for economic survival reasons.

Luckily, I can provide the context you're trying to invent.



This is what has happened to men's wages in the last 50 years.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/the-struggles-of-men/?_r=0

Why don't white men vote for us? As this thread shows, we consider their problems to be social solutions.

And while we're on the topic of declining wages, how about this analysis from the National Bureau of Economic Research?

The Effects of Immigration on African-American Employment and Incarceration

"The 1980-2000 immigrant influx, therefore, generally 'explains' about 20 to 60 percent of the decline in wages, 25 percent of the decline in employment, and about 10 percent of the rise in incarceration rates among blacks with a high school education or less."

Almost everybody knows that in the past 40 years, the real wages and job prospects for low-skilled men, especially low-skilled minority workers, have fallen. And there is evidence -- although no consensus -- that a rising tide of immigration is partly to blame. Now, a new NBER study suggests that immigration has more far-reaching consequences than merely depressing wages and lowering employment rates of low-skilled African-American males: its effects also appear to push some would-be workers into crime and, later, into prison.

"Remarkably, as far as we know, no study has examined if there is a link between the resurgence of large-scale immigration and the employment and incarceration trends in the black population," co-authors George Borjas, Jeffrey Grogger, and Gordon Hanson write in Immigration and African-American Employment Opportunities: The Response of Wages, Employment, and Incarceration to Labor Supply Shocks (NBER Working Paper No.12518). The authors are careful to point out that even without increased immigration, most of the fall in employment and increase in jailed black men would have happened anyway. Nevertheless, the racially disproportionate effects of immigration on employment are striking.

Changing technology, government programs, and a stagnant real minimum wage have all been blamed for the poor labor market performance of low skilled and minority workers. Another key reason, the authors show, is immigration. Using census data from 1960-2000, the authors trace the evolution of wages, employment, and incarceration rates for particular skill groups in the black and white populations. They then relate the trends observed in these variables to the increases in immigration experienced by each skill group. The observed correlations suggest that immigration is an important underlying factor influencing the observed trends. In particular, their analysis finds that a 10 percent rise in immigrants in a particular skill group significantly trimmed the wages of black and white men alike. For African-Americans, the decline was 3.6 percent. For whites, it was actually slightly higher: 3.8 percent. Beyond that, however, the black-white experience differed markedly, especially for low-skilled workers. Take employment rates: from 1960 to 2000, black high school dropouts saw their employment rates drop 33 percentage points -- from 88.6 percent to 55.7 percent -- the authors found in their analysis of census data from 1960 to 2000. The decrease for white high school dropouts was only roughly half that -- from 94.1 percent to 76.0 percent.

One reason, the authors argue, is that black employment is more sensitive to an immigration influx than white employment. For white men, an immigration boost of 10 percent caused their employment rate to fall just 0.7 percentage points; for black men, it fell 2.4 percentage points.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

LOL. "Before the early 1970s, the only group that was seeing their income increase was white males" PSPS Jul 2015 #1
Yes, that is the middle class white male narrative Recursion Jul 2015 #2
Rather, women were expected to stay home with the kids. hedda_foil Jul 2015 #3
And women who worked as a housekeeper part time weren't counted in wage surveys Recursion Jul 2015 #4
Absolutely. And teachers (the career track for girls too upscale to be "just secretaries" ) ... hedda_foil Jul 2015 #6
This post is cringeworthy on so many levels. nt geek tragedy Jul 2015 #7
Sadly that is true. Now... Emelina Jul 2015 #8
You are mistaken - the actual world was NOT Ozzie & Harriet. KentuckyWoman Jul 2015 #64
And the average house was a lot smaller, had fewer bedrooms and bathrooms. And many families raccoon Jul 2015 #78
In what sense is the one time rental of a limo mythology Jul 2015 #79
It's a pet peeve of mine. nt raccoon Jul 2015 #81
Which leads to the conclusion that a single earner could support a family today Recursion Jul 2015 #87
ALL workers are still getting screwed. Since 1972, productivity up 250%. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #5
Thank you. PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #10
^^That Orrex Jul 2015 #19
+1! snot Jul 2015 #52
Thanks. The "aww, poor, whiny white guys" angle isn't an answer to the obvious wage problem. n/t Beartracks Jul 2015 #66
No, it's not an answer, but it's a first step towards one Recursion Jul 2015 #94
Second step: outsourcing all jobs to low wage countries PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #95
Well, we're the ones who keep buying cheap shirts from Bangladesh Recursion Jul 2015 #97
I do agree with you on PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #101
Socialism (in the real Marx sense) is probably the best way to do a universal income Recursion Jul 2015 #104
Ok. PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #108
No, people just make a lot of assumptions about me. I've posted more about minimum income than trade Recursion Jul 2015 #109
People pick up on right wing phrasing very easily here PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #110
I live and work in a city where 10,000 people die from waterborne illnesses every year Recursion Jul 2015 #114
You have some good points PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #116
Poverty isn't a competition. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #120
Here's the world income distribution Recursion Jul 2015 #121
Hah ha ha, troll. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #122
I can see that. But even those gains have been below what they SHOULD have been. Beartracks Jul 2015 #119
All the RWing blah blah to avoid talking about Reaganomics. Rex Jul 2015 #107
Thanks. I don't need to look at any charts to know the OP is bullshit. I live in 2015 reality and I GoneFishin Jul 2015 #111
Yup. CentralMass Jul 2015 #117
Compelling enough for me. joshcryer Jul 2015 #9
I am impressed. TM99 Jul 2015 #11
/\_/\_This right here_/\_/\ Scuba Jul 2015 #16
Yes! tenderfoot Jul 2015 #53
Amazing. tymorial Jul 2015 #57
Indeed. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #77
It's insulting for Democrats to have this RW trash pushed on us day after day. nt Zorra Jul 2015 #80
+1 CentralMass Jul 2015 #118
+1 Marr Jul 2015 #90
+1. Thanks. GoneFishin Jul 2015 #112
What do you do for a living? B Calm Jul 2015 #12
UNIX administration Recursion Jul 2015 #14
It's always helpful to know where you are coming from. If you worked an hourly labor job B Calm Jul 2015 #15
It is hourly. My forklift days were years ago Recursion Jul 2015 #18
The average UNIX administrator salary is $92,000, do you think that's what hourly employees B Calm Jul 2015 #20
Do you think that's what I make, working for an NGO? Recursion Jul 2015 #23
Just going with what Google tells me. B Calm Jul 2015 #26
I lulz'd. KG Jul 2015 #13
Scott Walker would be so proud! Scuba Jul 2015 #17
Looks like hourly compensation stagnated particularly from the mid-70's to the mid-90's, pampango Jul 2015 #21
I'm old enough to know middle classes wages have been on the decline mmonk Jul 2015 #22
"2013 dollars" means accounting for inflation (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #24
I understand what the term means. mmonk Jul 2015 #25
I'm curious how that can be since real median income for men is higher now than say 1960 Recursion Jul 2015 #28
You may want to check into costs not associated with the graphs. mmonk Jul 2015 #29
Housing and medicine are factored into CPI though Recursion Jul 2015 #31
There are, I think, many factors such as declines in pensions for 401 K's and such for an example. mmonk Jul 2015 #34
Also, the greater the income gap between the richest and the typical American family is, mmonk Jul 2015 #36
medians are not skewed by outliers. That's the point of medians. whatthehey Jul 2015 #44
The 20:20 ratio is a much better way to determine the effects of income inequality in terms of mmonk Jul 2015 #45
Medians are not intended to show inequality whatthehey Jul 2015 #48
The problem with just using standard median is it doesn't give a complete mmonk Jul 2015 #49
Notice the drop in household median income from the collapse in 2008 to 2012. mmonk Jul 2015 #51
. mmonk Jul 2015 #46
This is the over-arching issue. ronnie624 Jul 2015 #75
So right you are. Well stated. mmonk Jul 2015 #103
Yay! We can all EQUALLY be in poverty together! Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #27
They don't even drain off to shareholders anymore Recursion Jul 2015 #33
So? At best this shows a time old employer tactic: "bring in cheaper workers" Tom Rinaldo Jul 2015 #30
The early 70's rock Jul 2015 #32
There's probably something to that (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #85
Interesting perspective. So is the denominator in first graph total paid working hours? lostnfound Jul 2015 #35
Within specific standard occupations, generally no Recursion Jul 2015 #38
You may not be aware of this-- Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #37
It would be hard to argue that expanding the labor pool didn't push wages down Recursion Jul 2015 #39
Meh. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #40
The middle class single earner family was temporary The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #43
^^^ That Recursion Jul 2015 #115
Well it is just a numbers game The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #42
LOL. Another hit from the Socialists...for Hillary??? club! nt Romulox Jul 2015 #56
Pardon? Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #58
I just think that supporting the fabulously wealthy Corporate-backed candidate is the solution... Romulox Jul 2015 #59
You're right. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #62
I'm glad you know the names of several cities in Michigan, but this is all a bit random. Romulox Jul 2015 #70
What were you proposing I rebut? I missed your point, except you object to my presence. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #71
I want to know what the Hamtramck insult is supposed to mean. Romulox Jul 2015 #72
I didn't say anything was wrong with it at all. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #73
You're not good at playing coy. Very lame. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #74
This is easily explained. Exilednight Jul 2015 #41
Imo this OP is pizza worthy PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #47
AGREED. It is time for a RIGHTWINGER to banned from DU for a change. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #55
Seriously. Pushing right wing ideas is apparently perfectly acceptable LondonReign2 Jul 2015 #63
I agree. /nt Marr Jul 2015 #91
Your first bolded text is a non sequitur. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #50
+1 Hissyspit Jul 2015 #60
Terrific post. TM99 Jul 2015 #82
You're right, I had that part upside down. Will edit OP (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #86
inaccurate. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #92
Oh excuse me, only *half again* white women's income gains Recursion Jul 2015 #93
You were *only* off by a factor of two? A huge difference? YMMV. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #96
Fine, I'll edit to "significantly more than" (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #98
Don't stop editing yet. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #99
You're right, I read that part completely wrong. Recursion Jul 2015 #106
We're making progress, but we're not there yet. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #113
Another in the "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THAT CURTAIN!" series. Romulox Jul 2015 #54
Pretty much-- along with the standard divide and conquer appeal to identity politics and Marr Jul 2015 #89
Oh, for christ's sake... Hissyspit Jul 2015 #61
Third Way Horseshit. Going All In with Rovian HRC campaign race baiting Teamster Jeff Jul 2015 #65
Might also have to do with white men monopolizing "skilled" work for much of America's history YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #67
I think you are partly right but have the chicken vs egg backwards KentuckyWoman Jul 2015 #68
It Seems To Me RobinA Jul 2015 #69
No, I'm not assuming that. I'm assuming white men held a monopoly on higher paying fields Recursion Jul 2015 #84
Let's have some music to go with Recursion's post, courtesy of Eduard Khil Scootaloo Jul 2015 #76
OH good. You've taken up with the Troy University set with this latest hilarity. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #83
What Orlando Letelier said... Octafish Jul 2015 #88
It is funny watching them admit to living in a plutocracy. The OP will turn Rex Jul 2015 #102
All that to avoid talking about Reaganomics. Rex Jul 2015 #100
Yes, trickle down fetishism was a big part of this Recursion Jul 2015 #105
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