General Discussion

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)

34. Elements of authoritarianism abound long before Nazis appear.

Reply to Playinghardball (Original post)

Sat Sep 5, 2015, 07:15 PM

Sep 2015

Part of the problem is that we don't all seem to agree on what constitutes outrageous problems, short of a general consensus that Germany attempting to take over all of Europe and exterminate Jewish people, Gypsies, gay people, intellectuals, and the infirm was beyond the pale.

But that was the mistake the Germans made. No one proposed that level of insanity right out of the gate. They started by scapegoating minority groups, (Communists first, I think). Physical intimidation. Nationalism. Militarism. Indoctrination. Belief in a mythical past and a "pure" culture.

We have a lot of this going on right now.

So, yes -- Fox News and its subsidiary, the Republican Party, are absolutely pushing intolerance and authoritarianism, and are getting away with it to a disturbing degree.

But we've got to be able to recognize authoritarian elements without needing to conclude that we're headed toward the genocide of six million people by goose-stepping fascists. When we do that, people look around, don't see trains and gas chambers, and assume all is well.

There is a lot in the middle between a free democratic society and a fascist holocaust. We need to get better at rejecting the million tiny steps that lead from one to the other.

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It sounds extreme, maybe even crazy, but it's very true. Americans need to wake the hell up.... [View all] Playinghardball Sep 2015 OP

Sheep to the Slaughter. Beowulf42 Sep 2015 #1

The NSA is not supposed to tap .GOV packets, but they can .COM like HDR22@clintonemail.com LiberalArkie Sep 2015 #3

NSA Taps Are Specifically Used For Leverage Against Politicians, Attorneys, Judges, Journalists billhicks76 Sep 2015 #41

NSA is supposed to minimize high gov't officials data. leveymg Sep 2015 #57

Whistleblowers billhicks76 Sep 2015 #167

The Joint Chiefs are really the fifth branch of Gov't. Certainly, the most powerful. leveymg Sep 2015 #176

What Does This Make The Hillary Clintons And Joe Liebermans? billhicks76 Sep 2015 #42

Collaborationist swine. nt hifiguy Sep 2015 #90

winner winner chicken dinner elehhhhna Sep 2015 #104

History repeats. Stonepounder Sep 2015 #2

Damned history!! pocoloco Sep 2015 #26

Gun control? THREE HUNDRED MILLION guns and gun control is the problem??????????????? randys1 Sep 2015 #127

and it doesn't rinse before it repeats, either. elehhhhna Sep 2015 #105

Exactly. They are using the same methods the Third Reich did to keep their people indoctrinated Cleita Sep 2015 #4

+1 learn the tricks of the enemy and you can out think him n/t w0nderer Sep 2015 #10

Another book for your reading list is They Thought They Were Free PufPuf23 Sep 2015 #29

+1 rec Person 2713 Sep 2015 #68

+2 hifiguy Sep 2015 #185

MSM >>> Paul Joseph Goebbels n/t RKP5637 Sep 2015 #54

The 6 million VICTIMS of the Holocaust were not "indoctrinated", they were slaughtered! scarletwoman Sep 2015 #64

So you agree with Fox News? Cleita Sep 2015 #69

I'm saying that the meme in the OP, which uses the number 6 million, is dead wrong and offensive. scarletwoman Sep 2015 #70

"Over six million" not six million. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #72

If it does not refer to the victims, then why isn't the number anywhere CLOSE to actual population scarletwoman Sep 2015 #75

Welll meant,but not well informed. The intention of the post was clear. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #77

The meaning of the post is not clear. Chef Eric Sep 2015 #99

It is confused. I agree. But the gist is clear to me. The DUer is talking about the JDPriestly Sep 2015 #170

It's not "confused", the OP grabbed a right wing Tea Party graphic that intentionally blames the scarletwoman Sep 2015 #173

I tend to want to read the best intentions into posts. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #174

I'm sorry, but I don't think having the "best intentions" excuses letting an egregious error stand. scarletwoman Sep 2015 #177

as Germany had a population of around 70 million and as the number of cali Sep 2015 #95

Yes it is. The author connects the number 6 million with the Holocaust and does not know JDPriestly Sep 2015 #171

Over six-million still refers to the victims. Six-million jwirr Sep 2015 #113

But the victims did not follow what was going on in the majority of the country. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #168

Even when it was happening to them? They had always jwirr Sep 2015 #182

You do know that many of those victims boarded the trains willingly Cleita Sep 2015 #74

omg. your post couldn't be more callous and wrong cali Sep 2015 #97

Before you get on your high horse, the point of gun came after Cleita Sep 2015 #111

you're still incorrect regarding the facts. cali Sep 2015 #137

Whatever Cali. You have dug in your heels and no amount of facts will sway you. Cleita Sep 2015 #142

I have presented facts to you. you have chosen to ignore them. cali Sep 2015 #159

Here is the history of the concentration camps. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #172

Let me ask you this: If you are told to leave your home jwirr Sep 2015 #115

Undesirables among the Germans, not just Jews, had been made non-citizens Cleita Sep 2015 #126

Your last sentence is why some of us do not like the jwirr Sep 2015 #133

I'm a quarter German myself and have full-blooded German relatives Cleita Sep 2015 #135

This was sent to a jury a2liberal Sep 2015 #124

Boarded willingly? bvar22 Sep 2015 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author Cleita Sep 2015 #161

I know a great deal about what happened in the Holocaust. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #169

shameful. pointing out how offensive and sick the op is, is not endorsing Fox news. cali Sep 2015 #96

OP could have used better wordsmithing but the intent is obviously not to besmirch Cleita Sep 2015 #110

The problem is that it isn't wordsmithing by the OP author, it is the poster that rhett o rick Sep 2015 #132

Cali I doubt that the OP was meant the way you and I jwirr Sep 2015 #119

oh, I doubt it too, but that doesn't excuse it or lend any validity to it cali Sep 2015 #130

i admit i read it wrong originally questionseverything Sep 2015 #136

It is not even an ambiguous statement Generic Other Sep 2015 #138

I agree. I think the op misinterpreted the poster cali Sep 2015 #143

Agreed. Comparing Fox to the Holocaust is an offensive and ABURD overstatement whathehell Sep 2015 #141

+1... SidDithers Sep 2015 #179

I read Mine Kampf when I was a kid. ladyVet Sep 2015 #180

We have allowed our media to become propaganda to aid the extremely wealthy! Dustlawyer Sep 2015 #5

so...we take it back w0nderer Sep 2015 #37

Awesome! Dustlawyer Sep 2015 #73

The six million were victims. The question is how did they get ordinary Germans to go along. Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #6

That was a magnificent thing they asked them to join. It was love. Did you not see the movies? jtuck004 Sep 2015 #17

Yes...I just thought the wording in this photo was off. Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #30

I see what you are saying, it is incorrect. Conflates victims and perpetrators. n/t jtuck004 Sep 2015 #32

It's disgusting. And that 100 people recced this is not only pathetic it's cali Sep 2015 #46

and that's the danger w0nderer Sep 2015 #38

Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Sep 2015 #7

it's not a reference to the German people. it's a reference to the Jews and cali Sep 2015 #48

It could be a reference to the victims Hydra Sep 2015 #80

Then why is the verbiage about the Holocaust and not about the Nazi regime or territorial Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #106

Good analogy of what is happening in Africa - the lies jwirr Sep 2015 #129

what is to be expected w0nderer Sep 2015 #8

You had incredible teachers. hifiguy Sep 2015 #15

They were above average for the time and place but not by much w0nderer Sep 2015 #20

my children are getting exactly that kind of educatuon lunasun Sep 2015 #81

I freaked town librarian out by reading many of those books on my own at about 10 or 11. She kept Mnemosyne Sep 2015 #83

Unfortunately most of our college students today are jwirr Sep 2015 #134

Literature is important too. bvar22 Sep 2015 #162

Absolutely agree. When we have this 2 year degree jwirr Sep 2015 #164

(despite this not being a US teacher or school) saidsimplesimon Sep 2015 #35

US was at that point one of the big powers, the other was USSR w0nderer Sep 2015 #36

I get the distinct feeling that Bernie has read hifiguy Sep 2015 #86

I second that. You had GREAT teachers. I didn't have anything like that. PatrickforO Sep 2015 #47

Bonus Points for who ever can ID the author of the following: bvar22 Sep 2015 #9

Goebbels would be too obvious... awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #12

Close. bvar22 Sep 2015 #14

I should have known awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #19

Trump is a lot more like Mussolini than Hitler. hifiguy Sep 2015 #22

I keep hearing that... awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #23

So much the same, a tactic to rally the herd. It's so reminiscent. n/t RKP5637 Sep 2015 #58

Also a different time and country w0nderer Sep 2015 #39

Yeah, our collective attention span sucks awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #44

*G* so glad w0nderer Sep 2015 #51

I have always been strange... awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #52

or it could be w0nderer Sep 2015 #56

I can do that as well. hifiguy Sep 2015 #93

I like a wide variety of books awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #94

I've been on a nearly year-long toot of reading hifiguy Sep 2015 #146

The mass American public has hifiguy Sep 2015 #87

Deliberately and willingly awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #88

"Most people would rather die than think. hifiguy Sep 2015 #89

I think it is not so much the training as the over jwirr Sep 2015 #145

I'm on the autism spectrum myself - dx'd Aspergers ten years ago - which explained everything.. hifiguy Sep 2015 #147

And for many I suspect when they shut things out jwirr Sep 2015 #148

oh i gets bonus points :) "41 64 6f 6c 66 20 48 69 74 6c 65 72" n/t w0nderer Sep 2015 #13

Yep. Got it. GoneFishin Sep 2015 #100

Eddy Bernays, Walter Lippman? appalachiablue Sep 2015 #59

I don't think it is crazy at all... awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #11

Ailes, along with Atwater and Rove hifiguy Sep 2015 #16

It is way past "just" fox news - Billions are being spent covertly to influence the masses newthinking Sep 2015 #40

Follow "blindly" is a stretch. Following what one thinks is self interest is a cultural trait that L. Coyote Sep 2015 #18

Read the latest article on 'club.orlov.com' by guest poster, Adam. eom. Joe Chi Minh Sep 2015 #21

Link didn't work for me BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2015 #25

My apologies, Blanche. It should be 'cluborlov.com', i.e. without the first period. You Joe Chi Minh Sep 2015 #101

Thanks, I am saving that on my phone --home screen!!! BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2015 #131

If you noticed the pattern years ago, BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2015 #24

Under the Ether . orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #27

The big difference is that the Nazis started assassinating political opponents. Kablooie Sep 2015 #28

Early days w0nderer Sep 2015 #31

Submitted for your approval: hifiguy Sep 2015 #92

I'm scared for him, too Aerows Sep 2015 #166

We are way past that - JFK, RFK, MLK, etc. jwirr Sep 2015 #140

this is true KT2000 Sep 2015 #33

Elements of authoritarianism abound long before Nazis appear. DirkGently Sep 2015 #34

OH MY GOD, YOU ARE SO ACCURATE. i HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE THE rladdi Sep 2015 #43

Am I the only one who finds this unbelievably sick and offensive? cali Sep 2015 #45

Well, the text on the original post is a bit strange as there were 66 million people in Germany in PatrickforO Sep 2015 #50

+1 and i'm sure most of us will n/t w0nderer Sep 2015 #79

No, I'm with you. The OP is unbelievably offensive. scarletwoman Sep 2015 #55

Actually, the 6 million likely refers to Jews. Behind the Aegis Sep 2015 #61

yes, I think they really are that ignorant. cali Sep 2015 #63

I echo your concerns. Behind the Aegis Sep 2015 #60

yes, it's almost certainly ignorance, but I'm shocked that so many duers are this ignorant cali Sep 2015 #62

I honestly think people are misreading it. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2015 #76

I agree. I think the reaction in this thread is aimed at the idea that some in the USofA rhett o rick Sep 2015 #117

Yeah, on second look, the poster is pretty offensive. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2015 #149

I agree. nm rhett o rick Sep 2015 #158

Given some of the posts I have recently seen... Behind the Aegis Sep 2015 #78

This is completely and incredibly vile ismnotwasm Sep 2015 #107

the ignorance on parade in this thread is just pathetic. cali Sep 2015 #49

Life aways seems to advance in cycles, forward some, and then backward some ... RKP5637 Sep 2015 #53

Frankly, I find this OP to be hyperbole. Snobblevitch Sep 2015 #65

I know college-educated people who think Obama is a born-in-Kenya Muslim Skittles Sep 2015 #84

There is no accounting for some people. Snobblevitch Sep 2015 #85

it's not just "some people" Skittles Sep 2015 #91

Among the other ways in which humanity can be divided into two camps hifiguy Sep 2015 #150

I know people that think 6 million and 11 million are the same number. Rex Sep 2015 #116

OMG ARE YOU SERIOUS? Skittles Sep 2015 #163

Godwin can go fuck himself. He made up a fake law to see how fast it would spread. merrily Sep 2015 #153

Exactly!! gopiscrap Sep 2015 #66

for the nitpicky of the graphic w0nderer Sep 2015 #67

that you and so many others here believe that the Jews followed Hitler blindly cali Sep 2015 #98

summed up briefly (summary of last 2 large paragraphs from my entry) *slow applause* n/t w0nderer Sep 2015 #175

fox is the visual icing on talk radio's lie turd pie- talk radio's idiot little brother certainot Sep 2015 #71

I couldn't agree more, but the OP has their numbers wrong. YOHABLO Sep 2015 #82

GOEBBELSVISION! Chasstev365 Sep 2015 #102

Holy Shit. The 6 Million were Jewish victims of that Holocaust not blind followers, the German Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #103

Funny, the only place I've ever seen this meme is in the status updates of my right wing and Brickbat Sep 2015 #108

This seems to be a Tea Party meme, adapted and photoshopped LeftishBrit Sep 2015 #109

Thank you. I wish the OP would return to this thread and understand that the graphic he grabbed scarletwoman Sep 2015 #160

I think the poster is referring to the Jews who were jwirr Sep 2015 #112

K&R for pissing off the Right people! Rex Sep 2015 #114

I don't see that reaction toward Fox News but I didnt read every post either. The consternation rhett o rick Sep 2015 #118

seriously? you actually believe that the diverse people criticizing the op are cali Sep 2015 #121

Post removed Post removed Sep 2015 #123

Rex, this OP is more like FoxNews than FoxNews. Those of us who oppose this OP also oppose FoxNews Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #152

Did you recognize that the poster is referring to the 6 million Jews that were victims of the rhett o rick Sep 2015 #120

8 million people joined the Nazi party, not every German was a Nazi. Rex Sep 2015 #125

We are having a discussion. Not all agree with you. That doesn't mean we are rhett o rick Sep 2015 #128

20,700,000 Germans served in the Wehrmacht alone, all following orders from and considered by Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #154

Unrecommending. Old Crow Sep 2015 #139

But this time liberals and gays will be the new jews Pharaoh Sep 2015 #122

Propaganda Plus colsohlibgal Sep 2015 #144

Not fer nutthin, but 12 million people were murdered in the Holocaust, of whom 6 million were Jews. merrily Sep 2015 #151

Yeah, we get it too, but the intent is being misunderstood by some. OP needed a better way RKP5637 Sep 2015 #181

Exactly. I am very sure that the OP meant nothing but good. merrily Sep 2015 #184

It would make a lil more sense if it implied the German people let it happen DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2015 #156

Fox News is not a news organization Gothmog Sep 2015 #157

In general, people irritate me enough Aerows Sep 2015 #165

Controlling illegal immigration is the same thing as the holocaust? TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2015 #178

... SidDithers Sep 2015 #183