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DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
398. What do healthy people get out of sick leave?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:44 PM
Oct 2015

Fairness doesn't require that everybody receive every conceivable benefit anyone else might need, or directly gain from everything we do as a society.

We all benefit when people's needs are met. We suffer as a society when people resent or resist efforts to provide necessary help on the basis they, personally, don't think they need that kind of help at the moment.

One of the worst examples we've seen of that thinking lately is when men rage that women's health needs cost more and thus that's "unfair" that everyone contribute equally to the costs of health care. Followed to its conclusion, it's basically a complaint that women exist, and a suggestion that maybe we shouldn't encourage that?

That's not how civilization (or fairness) works. We don't each receive an identical, direct benefit from everything we do to to make things work. You may not have kids in school, but you want the kids around you educated so you can live in a better world. You may live in a fireproof house, but you still want someone to help the neighbors if their place bursts into flames. The young don't need much healthcare, but expect it to be there when they're older.

Conservatives screw up their rationale in this way all the time. They don't use public transportation, so no one should have it. They're not afraid of crime because they live behind gates, so why fund the police? Their kids go to private school, so public schools can rot.

We have to take a longer, broader of view of the kind of world we need to live in. Asking "But what do I get?" about everything misses the point.

You get to live in a civilization where we see to our needs as a whole, and cooperate to that end.

As far as I'm concerned, it will make for "better" kids, and a better society. Hoyt Oct 2015 #1
i have no problem with that concept restorefreedom Oct 2015 #5
Sorry, I don't see this as "If you get X, I should get Y thing." trof Oct 2015 #419
but each of us made a life choice. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #428
Theoretically a man who has a newborn should get some time off to spend with his family davidpdx Oct 2015 #507
In the old days rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #519
it should not matter whst the leave is for restorefreedom Oct 2015 #524
Yes it is a life choice. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #603
+1 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #610
Nonsense rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #643
And yet, so many of us seem to have no trouble saying no. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #644
Umm, no cabyio Oct 2015 #628
Sociopathic republican logic eom rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #642
We are below demographic replacement rate. We need to avoid the dreaded inverted Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #606
to some degree, yes restorefreedom Oct 2015 #609
We don't have growth in America. Around 2.1 children is the replacement rate. We hoovering around Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #611
then i guess we are in good shape restorefreedom Oct 2015 #612
As a child-free person, I totally agree Cal Carpenter Oct 2015 #13
I can even support it in a more selfish way -- good kids will be working to pay our Social Security. Hoyt Oct 2015 #223
Yep. And it's like paying taxes for schools, I don't expect to get something else Cal Carpenter Oct 2015 #242
so do you give $10 to everybody you see hfojvt Oct 2015 #382
You might have grown up to be happier if they'd had family leave. Hoyt Oct 2015 #400
my mom was a stay at home mom hfojvt Oct 2015 #585
Not many of those around nowadays, in case you haven't noticed. Hoyt Oct 2015 #587
Then they can have my $10's, your's went to kill that kid in the Mid-East... daleanime Oct 2015 #433
I have no idea what you are talking about hfojvt Oct 2015 #586
No, I'm trying to share honesty...... daleanime Oct 2015 #592
I don't see an unfair idea as a good idea hfojvt Oct 2015 #593
you make a very importan point 'selfishness sells socialism' w0nderer Oct 2015 #506
But like you say, selfishness is OK if directed to the good of everyone. Hoyt Oct 2015 #542
Because Snow Leopard Oct 2015 #366
so the extra money I pay hfojvt Oct 2015 #381
Yep, the next - and happier - generation will cure your diseases, pay your Social Security, etc. Hoyt Oct 2015 #401
And, in the more intermediate term ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #406
There's that too. Hoyt Oct 2015 #464
so you want to rob me now hfojvt Oct 2015 #584
Robbery? ... A protection racket? ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #590
I see it as free stuff going to other people hfojvt Oct 2015 #594
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #596
Several people on this thread Bettie Oct 2015 #616
For a while now, it seems that (some) DUers pine for the '50s model in a number of ways ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #618
Maybe it is about loss of privilege Bettie Oct 2015 #621
I suspect that it is very much about the loss of privilege ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #622
And the realization that other people had different experiences Bettie Oct 2015 #629
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #631
you do realize that restorefreedom Oct 2015 #626
The extra money you pay for what? Education? randys1 Oct 2015 #403
Yes rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #520
Also rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #521
that's very simplistic hfojvt Oct 2015 #583
it's kinda funny hfojvt Oct 2015 #582
You sound rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #588
you sound yourself hfojvt Oct 2015 #595
Amazing I'm in 100% agreement with you on something. TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #423
Is it fair to mandate FMLA when some people don't have families? Brickbat Oct 2015 #2
thats why there should be an equivalent benefit imo restorefreedom Oct 2015 #16
Being home with a new baby is not really time away from work. Chemisse Oct 2015 #432
i have no doubt about that. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #438
But it is time away from the work you are being paid for. cabyio Oct 2015 #630
Yes. We all pay school taxes, too. tabasco Oct 2015 #95
Why should i have to pay for sick people, when im healthy? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #205
i don.t agree with health insurance as it is restorefreedom Oct 2015 #215
The entire premise of health insurance is that the healthy people pay for the sick. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #221
actually, i believe in single payer restorefreedom Oct 2015 #226
I believe in single payer, too. But i also realize that chasing after "fairness" in such situations Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #233
agree with you on single payer restorefreedom Oct 2015 #236
You have the wrong insurance company mythology Oct 2015 #354
wow that sounds great restorefreedom Oct 2015 #355
Breast cancer survivor here. phylny Oct 2015 #405
FMLA is Family AND Medical Leave Act - it applies to the individual as well REP Oct 2015 #284
Same here Betty88 Oct 2015 #408
Good point. Chemisse Oct 2015 #434
I took 10 weeks to help my mom. She did die but what cherished moments yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #439
sorry about your mom restorefreedom Oct 2015 #442
Thank you yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #445
my mom is still with us but is getting older restorefreedom Oct 2015 #448
That certainly is still a benefit for all, though a very sad one to have to go through davidpdx Oct 2015 #508
Do you have parents that could end up needing care? Ilsa Oct 2015 #300
Yes, it can be. Brickbat Oct 2015 #307
Family leave Sanity Claws Oct 2015 #3
Thanks for answering this JustAnotherGen Oct 2015 #6
I felt I was lucky enough to work for a company that allowed a non-paid leave MerryBlooms Oct 2015 #426
i agree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #430
That's very kind of you, thank you. MerryBlooms Oct 2015 #455
thanks, you too :) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #459
Good answer and makes sense. Thanks. n/t Hepburn Oct 2015 #365
You notice your response didn't fit the narrative/agenda, so no response from the OP. MerryBlooms Oct 2015 #420
you do realize that the op restorefreedom Oct 2015 #427
The intent of parental leave is to care for and bond with their children liberal N proud Oct 2015 #4
"What to childless people have that they need extra time for?" restorefreedom Oct 2015 #10
It's saying that caring for a child takes more time than not liberal N proud Oct 2015 #18
there are other worthwhile ways to invest in the community restorefreedom Oct 2015 #29
I think it is probably impossible for you to understand if you are not a parent liberal N proud Oct 2015 #131
We are not talking about the FMLA which gives everyone job protection Squinch Oct 2015 #561
Sanctimonius child-cult bullshit. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #604
It's called experience - the EXPERIENCE of raising a child liberal N proud Oct 2015 #608
It is not time off. Chemisse Oct 2015 #440
it is still an issue of equal compensation restorefreedom Oct 2015 #443
The choice people make to have children, Chemisse Oct 2015 #463
that is one option restorefreedom Oct 2015 #468
Forget talking to you. Clearly you don't have a view that extends beyond yourself. Chemisse Oct 2015 #471
not true at all, but i realize restorefreedom Oct 2015 #473
How do you know? cabyio Oct 2015 #635
^^This^^ dog_lovin_dem Oct 2015 #500
If more people chose not to have children we would all be much better off. Squinch Oct 2015 #562
IT IS cabyio Oct 2015 #634
You have extra time to not change diapers, not get up at 3:00 in the morning snooper2 Oct 2015 #38
what about the term "personal choice" do you not understand? bbgrunt Oct 2015 #94
+ 100 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #103
it's not a personal choice for the child CreekDog Oct 2015 #108
we are not going to agree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #111
you really aren't agreeing with anybody in this thread CreekDog Oct 2015 #167
It is a personal choice for the child? Crunchy Frog Oct 2015 #244
i don't remember anyone suggesting it was. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #251
Wow laundry_queen Oct 2015 #348
i never said the child had a choice restorefreedom Oct 2015 #350
+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #531
Family leave, parental etc haikugal Oct 2015 #7
Parent vs Non Parent Rebubula Oct 2015 #8
that is certainly one argument restorefreedom Oct 2015 #19
I'm interested in genuine ideas about how this could be implemented in a way that is fair to everyo catnhatnh Oct 2015 #9
not the same restorefreedom Oct 2015 #14
How do you even it out for people who upaloopa Oct 2015 #11
A clean house? nt Codeine Oct 2015 #12
Every weekend morning ret5hd Oct 2015 #25
Saturday nites with friends ret5hd Oct 2015 #28
R rated movies at home ret5hd Oct 2015 #30
I could go on and on! ret5hd Oct 2015 #31
I gave tidiness, spending money, and the extra bedroom. Codeine Oct 2015 #196
when I was 11 hfojvt Oct 2015 #397
have you actually SEEN my bachelor pad? hfojvt Oct 2015 #395
Childless adults get more SLEEP and more disposable income. ; ) blm Oct 2015 #15
I am childfree get the red out Oct 2015 #17
i like the idea of a bigger tent approach restorefreedom Oct 2015 #22
+1 nt hifiguy Oct 2015 #27
very fair-minded approach. bbgrunt Oct 2015 #99
thx :) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #102
I agree get the red out Oct 2015 #279
completely understandable. :) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #286
I want time off when my dogs are sick and/or dying Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #20
exactly restorefreedom Oct 2015 #34
I understand that you've never had children demwing Oct 2015 #40
There are lots of insensitive things that people say about childfree people alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #60
Imagine that! A Bernie supporter and a Hillary supporter agreeing on something demwing Oct 2015 #66
There is no comparison to me Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #71
+100 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #74
+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #227
its not about kids vs pets restorefreedom Oct 2015 #72
Thanks n/t Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #78
I wasn't commenting on that alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #81
no one has to take away from parental love restorefreedom Oct 2015 #85
And I know what it's like to lose a child demwing Oct 2015 #106
i am sorry about your loss. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #112
thank you demwing Oct 2015 #118
As the alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #114
I nearly did not demwing Oct 2015 #115
So sorry for your loss Bettie Oct 2015 #176
My heart goes out to any parent that has lost a child demwing Oct 2015 #210
I've lost many pets Prism Oct 2015 #246
Me too. tazkcmo Oct 2015 #617
You never fully recover demwing Oct 2015 #623
So basically you just want more vacation forthemiddle Oct 2015 #161
what is wrong with equal time restorefreedom Oct 2015 #168
No I think I agree with you! forthemiddle Oct 2015 #252
lots of good could be done with it restorefreedom Oct 2015 #253
FYI - I don't disagree here demwing Oct 2015 #269
i think anytime we compare love and care restorefreedom Oct 2015 #271
Damn, you're on to us! Which when I think of it, is petronius Oct 2015 #315
No comparison and Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #67
You may be my long lost sister...LOL davidpdx Oct 2015 #509
I am child-free myself, but please count me out of these whiny, self-absorbed posts CreekDog Oct 2015 #68
I might be misunderstanding, Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #76
Well if you don't consider yourself a victim, then you will not feel slighted CreekDog Oct 2015 #83
it is not really different than what is,available for the most part restorefreedom Oct 2015 #90
Yes, there is jealousy in your post. There is jealousy of something given to benefit a child CreekDog Oct 2015 #96
they should have the time restorefreedom Oct 2015 #98
in other words, you're saying that when they have a baby, they should get 6 weeks to care for it CreekDog Oct 2015 #178
i am saying employees should get some paid time off restorefreedom Oct 2015 #180
so you're saying that if you and they get 4 weeks of vacation per year CreekDog Oct 2015 #187
Oh my gosh no, it's none of my concern why people need time off Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #190
ugh, mink restorefreedom Oct 2015 #431
nobody's a victim here restorefreedom Oct 2015 #80
The benefit is for the child CreekDog Oct 2015 #86
exactly demwing Oct 2015 #113
It's about equal compensation Somethingtosay Oct 2015 #281
Do you also want permanent income because someone else is disabled elehhhhna Oct 2015 #332
No I dont Somethingtosay Oct 2015 #335
How do you Snow Leopard Oct 2015 #368
There is absolutely no comparison, for you, between your own unique experience being a parent sammythecat Oct 2015 #356
Right... cabyio Oct 2015 #636
how about guinea pigs, how about your garden needs extra attention, snooper2 Oct 2015 #43
it shouldn't matter, that's the point restorefreedom Oct 2015 #52
You are on the side of a losing argument, you want farm subsides for your garden snooper2 Oct 2015 #84
i'm not talking about any of those things. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #93
Umm. Kids or sick family members ar not the same as "other things." Adrahil Oct 2015 #232
we should each get to decide what relationships, beings, or projects restorefreedom Oct 2015 #234
I don't disagree that those things are important. Adrahil Oct 2015 #248
thanks for weighing in with your thoughts. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #250
So, if your co-worker has to take time off Bettie Oct 2015 #302
chemo and babies ....c'mon..false comparison restorefreedom Oct 2015 #312
No. You are saying Bettie Oct 2015 #314
cancer and kids....you don't see a difference restorefreedom Oct 2015 #323
Both are classified as life events Bettie Oct 2015 #336
have a nice evening. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #340
+1000. eom. Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #390
You might want to dial it back, stop calling others names, and actually respond to the Squinch Oct 2015 #414
+1 tammywammy Oct 2015 #324
No one is saying anything like that. The OP is saying that a chunk of time that is available Squinch Oct 2015 #412
correct restorefreedom Oct 2015 #416
You've struck some kind of nerve with this one. Squinch Oct 2015 #417
most definitely, which surprises me restorefreedom Oct 2015 #422
I am surprised at it too. I am not sure what they think the cost to them would be. Or why Squinch Oct 2015 #425
don't know but from what i have seen restorefreedom Oct 2015 #444
There seems to be a line of reasoning that says, Squinch Oct 2015 #446
the benefits such as more time, disposable income, etc restorefreedom Oct 2015 #451
I am also surprised at some of the hostility toward the OP here. smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #533
Yes, the hostility is pretty extreme and illogical, and seems to me to border on hysteria. Squinch Oct 2015 #540
I agree with you on all points. smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #541
My favorite is the poster who says, "You don't need it so you don't get it, so deal with it." Squinch Oct 2015 #558
This is actually a good illustration of why giving everyone a chunk of time to use at their Squinch Oct 2015 #411
the extra work often gets overlooked restorefreedom Oct 2015 #418
Really, I think it would be of benefit to everyone. If any of us gets sick ourselves, we can only Squinch Oct 2015 #424
thanks. i have tried numerous times to stress the point restorefreedom Oct 2015 #436
Exactly! smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #534
The FMLA actually covers tending to sick relatives, and covers us all for continuing Squinch Oct 2015 #556
I think it would be great if everyone were allotted time to do volunteer work davidpdx Oct 2015 #510
Did Joe choose to get cancer? Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #605
I took "family leave" to care for a guinea pig with broken teeth Sen. Walter Sobchak Oct 2015 #107
I support this flamingdem Oct 2015 #329
My last boss was ONLY great about my sick/ dying cat. When it came to losing a dear friend..... bettyellen Oct 2015 #58
that is interesting... restorefreedom Oct 2015 #65
I fucking love my dog, but that's rediculous LeftyMom Oct 2015 #101
The point is nobody should be telling other people restorefreedom Oct 2015 #105
That's PTO. LeftyMom Oct 2015 #116
+1 HuckleB Oct 2015 #384
Not really cabyio Oct 2015 #637
I agree with that. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #217
The schneid. Squadoosh, zip, el zilcho and nada. hifiguy Oct 2015 #21
What's next? Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #23
+1 gollygee Oct 2015 #55
^^ This ^^ Myrina Oct 2015 #165
So everyone should be paying fuel tax then, and not just drivers, right? N/T beevul Oct 2015 #303
Are they buying fuel? Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #352
They already do laundry_queen Oct 2015 #353
Having fewer children is ultimately Facility Inspector Oct 2015 #518
Stay classy Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #550
Eminently classy, indeed Facility Inspector Oct 2015 #551
Insults? Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #552
This patent gets passed over for promotion in exchange for parental leave. RandySF Oct 2015 #24
What do we give people who never get sick and never use their sick leave? Xithras Oct 2015 #26
many employers are moving towards a pto system restorefreedom Oct 2015 #37
The PTO model is awful. Xithras Oct 2015 #53
PTO is awful! tammywammy Oct 2015 #193
You are most likely due Lonusca Oct 2015 #202
Nope. Xithras Oct 2015 #371
You may want to consult an employment attorney Lonusca Oct 2015 #407
who does their work then they are gone 21+ days? Skittles Oct 2015 #285
My kid was a few years ago. xmas74 Oct 2015 #333
Parents are making future tax payers The2ndWheel Oct 2015 #32
They are also potentially making more drains on our tax dollars. smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #535
even if you don't have children KT2000 Oct 2015 #33
You really want to go down the path that any government benefit extended to one group onenote Oct 2015 #35
being blind is not a voluntary life choice restorefreedom Oct 2015 #39
The leave is to benefit the child CreekDog Oct 2015 #48
No it's not. It's a benefit that parents have. Iris Oct 2015 #494
neither is being deaf onenote Oct 2015 #56
you said in your OP that you weren't knocking those who have kids and aren't trying to pit liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #239
how else would you characterize it other than to say it's a choice? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #245
I'm sure you don't mean this way but it's like when we as liberals defend child liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #268
you are right, i don't mean it that way restorefreedom Oct 2015 #270
But did the children ask to be born? You realize it's for their benefit also? kcr Oct 2015 #370
not trying to take the benefit away from the kids restorefreedom Oct 2015 #373
Your intent doesn't matter kcr Oct 2015 #374
i think the climate could definitely change restorefreedom Oct 2015 #376
Maybe. Ask when it changes. Until then n/t kcr Oct 2015 #378
This message was self-deleted by its author Chemisse Oct 2015 #449
It's a choice that benefits society. Chemisse Oct 2015 #450
i dont disagree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #452
You do realize that the cry for 'me too' jeopardizes parental leave? Chemisse Oct 2015 #456
it is not whenever the whim strikes restorefreedom Oct 2015 #461
It is a choice whether or not to have a child davidpdx Oct 2015 #511
Sick leave is a benefit also but not all get sick. TBF Oct 2015 #36
that's why a general PTO system works best restorefreedom Oct 2015 #42
Bernie doesn't support anything you're posting here CreekDog Oct 2015 #133
Problem is that "PTO" usually isn't enough for anyone who has a family or needs extended sick leave. haele Oct 2015 #149
thanks for sharing that restorefreedom Oct 2015 #159
So sick people can use all their time just to survive, and never get time to get better. HuckleB Oct 2015 #383
i don't have a problem restorefreedom Oct 2015 #387
the leave is for the benefit of the child CreekDog Oct 2015 #41
i'm not against the leave restorefreedom Oct 2015 #45
so you're saying you want leave in order to take care of a child? CreekDog Oct 2015 #54
No one missed that part. This is an benefit for EMPLOYEES. The child is not an employee. Iris Oct 2015 #495
Wait, I've heard this before, I hope you aren't going to complain next that your childless taxes FSogol Oct 2015 #44
I am happy to pay for public schools restorefreedom Oct 2015 #47
"I really don't see the issue" tkmorris Oct 2015 #121
what is wrong with a plan of benefits restorefreedom Oct 2015 #124
so at tax time, are you going to complain that parents are getting larger refunds than you? CreekDog Oct 2015 #183
i have never been dissatisfied with my refund. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #212
It's not like parents are sitting home eating bonbons. Laffy Kat Oct 2015 #46
Exactly. stranger81 Oct 2015 #259
Yes! And the same can be said for caring for a sick parent or other loved one. Laffy Kat Oct 2015 #297
You could look at it this way ismnotwasm Oct 2015 #49
i completely agree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #63
do you want the same amount of leave and in exchange CreekDog Oct 2015 #50
what about people who work in soup kitchens? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #61
ok, then do you support mandatory vacation time as they have in Europe and Canada? CreekDog Oct 2015 #70
what is wrong with it? nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #75
nothing, that's the leave you're looking for, support that kind of law CreekDog Oct 2015 #125
are you seriously suggesting restorefreedom Oct 2015 #128
I'm saying the purpose of parental leave is to care for children CreekDog Oct 2015 #132
why not just call it "leave" restorefreedom Oct 2015 #139
because the purpose is to give parents additional leave CreekDog Oct 2015 #141
Not Canada laundry_queen Oct 2015 #357
sounds like canada restorefreedom Oct 2015 #447
I don't get what the problem is. Squinch Oct 2015 #435
+ 1 and glad you are ok now. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #441
We get to have other peoples' children raised with greater resources (in this case, parental time) eShirl Oct 2015 #51
I'm childless and also pay school district taxes Prism Oct 2015 #57
+1 CreekDog Oct 2015 #73
Pakistan, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Russia and every other country in the world except prayin4rain Oct 2015 #59
Childless and happy to support family leave. It's going to help create a more humane workplace and bettyellen Oct 2015 #62
+1 CreekDog Oct 2015 #162
Parental leave is a benefit to society... SidDithers Oct 2015 #64
no right winger here restorefreedom Oct 2015 #79
sounds Libertarian actually CreekDog Oct 2015 #87
As a childless person what I'd like to get is temp coverage for my staff who are out on FMLA. Gidney N Cloyd Oct 2015 #69
Here in Canada laundry_queen Oct 2015 #358
No doubt, many people lacking children also complain about paying school taxes LanternWaste Oct 2015 #77
that is a false argument for many reasons restorefreedom Oct 2015 #82
Your premise is lacking relevant information LanternWaste Oct 2015 #88
I like it, as a teacher without my own children. Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #89
You want fair? If/When the law is passed, adopt and/or foster a child CreekDog Oct 2015 #91
Douchebag leave? nt LexVegas Oct 2015 #92
Hey, if it's PAID douchebag leave, count me in! nt JustABozoOnThisBus Oct 2015 #192
They should get extra money for extra duties if people take time off for whatever reason. alarimer Oct 2015 #97
yes, the bucket idea restorefreedom Oct 2015 #100
because you're purposefully ignoring responses which invalidate your original premise. LanternWaste Oct 2015 #104
tell me what is unfair restorefreedom Oct 2015 #109
I haven't said anything is unfair LanternWaste Oct 2015 #117
i'm being completely rational thank you restorefreedom Oct 2015 #122
As above (purposfully ignored), child leave incentivizes labor market attachment LanternWaste Oct 2015 #126
it is focused in fairness restorefreedom Oct 2015 #129
A cafeteria plan as you say Bettie Oct 2015 #310
the sick/recovery from childbirth restorefreedom Oct 2015 #316
Why can't I take FMLA just because I don't have cancer? LeftyMom Oct 2015 #110
blatantly false comparison restorefreedom Oct 2015 #119
Smoking causes cancer. Smoking is a life choice. LanternWaste Oct 2015 #120
To be that person ... It doesn't have to be cancer to use FMLA REP Oct 2015 #294
I think you won the internet tonight Bettie Oct 2015 #311
The knowledge that they won't be the ones who are GoCubsGo Oct 2015 #123
great response, thanks restorefreedom Oct 2015 #127
All one has to do is remind oneself GoCubsGo Oct 2015 #194
i am sure its no vaca restorefreedom Oct 2015 #249
Paid family leave is for everyone, not just parents frazzled Oct 2015 #130
Yes, exactly this. Very well said. MerryBlooms Oct 2015 #274
Promotions. Marr Oct 2015 #134
Nothing. Throd Oct 2015 #135
Oh ffs. It's not a goody, like an extra piece of cake. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #136
No shit RandySF Oct 2015 #138
well aren't you a fan of elevated discourse restorefreedom Oct 2015 #145
yes, people should get vacation time in addition to parental leave CreekDog Oct 2015 #154
i also support both types restorefreedom Oct 2015 #164
I'd be happy to widen the law for volunteers to wipe asses and shovel food into mouths Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #155
sadly, there are many neglected ones who need that kind of care. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #171
That person might be you. Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #186
that's why I think that family leaves should be generous restorefreedom Oct 2015 #228
It should be generous in the face of need and emergency Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #273
I have no problem with Social Security, Medicaid, or unemployment. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #277
No, I nailed your entire thing in about 8 words. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #189
bwahahahahaha restorefreedom Oct 2015 #218
It would appear Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #225
have a nice day! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #229
For the Win! Myrina Oct 2015 #170
Wel, the only way to make it completely fair Bettie Oct 2015 #137
You get someone funding your Social Security and Medicare when you retire jeff47 Oct 2015 #140
i guess that is something nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #146
some additional prespectives restorefreedom Oct 2015 #142
Why won't you answer why you will not make yourself eligible for the leave by having a kid CreekDog Oct 2015 #147
I don't have to justify my reasons for not having a child restorefreedom Oct 2015 #153
Nobody cares why you choose not to have a child, just stop asking for parental leave CreekDog Oct 2015 #157
simple solution restorefreedom Oct 2015 #182
if we had nationally guaranteed leave time for vacation CreekDog Oct 2015 #185
i think a few weeks (or whatever i am not a dr) recuperative time for mom restorefreedom Oct 2015 #230
how about government mandated maternity leave? CreekDog Oct 2015 #339
actually it is about expansion, not reduction restorefreedom Oct 2015 #342
i asked a question: government required parental leave, government required vacation and sick time CreekDog Oct 2015 #343
if by required restorefreedom Oct 2015 #345
That is the one good point that has come out of this thread davidpdx Oct 2015 #514
A better society. (n/t) Iggo Oct 2015 #143
We get to do their work while they're on leave. geek tragedy Oct 2015 #144
i tried not to even go there restorefreedom Oct 2015 #148
it's an issue. in most countries the workload is reasonable so people can do a little extra geek tragedy Oct 2015 #150
yes, and without additional compensation no doubt. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #175
Where do you work? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #208
legal field. geek tragedy Oct 2015 #211
So- this is a serious question, not snark- how does family leave impact your work situation? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #213
my area not so much because it's several attorneys per case geek tragedy Oct 2015 #219
And in return, that child grows up to pay the taxes that will support you. jeff47 Oct 2015 #151
but we paid into the system as well. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #156
You get out more than you pay in. jeff47 Oct 2015 #163
that's an awfully attenuated, theoretical payback nt geek tragedy Oct 2015 #158
And it's how Social Security and Medicare work. jeff47 Oct 2015 #169
technically, them paying to SS and Medicare is payback for my paying into SS geek tragedy Oct 2015 #209
Why is it up to them to pay you back for helping people who died before they were born? jeff47 Oct 2015 #214
because presumably they'll have the generation behind them paying into it. geek tragedy Oct 2015 #220
And while that is supposed to be good for them, it isn't good for you? jeff47 Oct 2015 #243
+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #536
yeah. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #172
MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAA Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #206
what is funny? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #231
....All us parents chillaxing with our extra parent goodies, laughing at the childfree suckers. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #235
ahhhhhh. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #237
Overtime. :) nt BlueCheese Oct 2015 #152
yup Skittles Oct 2015 #241
I'm child-free, by choice. MineralMan Oct 2015 #160
But should the benefits you receive be based on need? Somethingtosay Oct 2015 #282
Pretty much, yes. MineralMan Oct 2015 #298
Have to disagree Somethingtosay Oct 2015 #304
OK. I have expanded on this and have posted it as a new thread MineralMan Oct 2015 #305
Vactions. Vacations and uninterrupted sleep. n/t lumberjack_jeff Oct 2015 #166
Not having to stay up all night caring for a crying newborn is our reward Kaleva Oct 2015 #173
You get the next generation whose taxes will pay your SS and Medicare and other benefits Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #174
I totally agree with you. CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #177
:) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #179
I don't think it is necessary for childfree people to get 'compensation' for parental leave KitSileya Oct 2015 #181
Some people could use it to take care of elderly parents csziggy Oct 2015 #184
I get to stay at work, collect OT, and be first in line for promotions. MindPilot Oct 2015 #188
As long as it is "family" leave and not parental leave, I think it is fair for everyone Blasphemer Oct 2015 #191
what do you get with no kids???? loaded question of the ages....sanity??? fewer drains on your dembotoz Oct 2015 #195
They get other people's children to keep the Social Security system and Medicare solvent. pnwmom Oct 2015 #197
Yeah, When people go "If you get time off to care for your sick 3 year old child, i should get Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #198
whiskers will most certainly restorefreedom Oct 2015 #263
and of course you "didn't want to to pit people with children against people without children" Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #359
nice graphic lol restorefreedom Oct 2015 #363
I thought August was dedicated to discussion on the A-bomb GummyBearz Oct 2015 #619
coincidentally enough, in August I put a picture of a guy messing with the tip of a warhead Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #620
we get uninterrupted sleep for 8 hours?? La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2015 #199
"You get time off for open heart surgery, i should get time off to go to a baseball game" Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #200
apples and oranges.nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #264
Well... They get no child rearing responsibilities. Xyzse Oct 2015 #201
You answered your own question in the first line of your post. Vinca Oct 2015 #203
Nothing in life is fair, get over it. Pisces Oct 2015 #204
in our corporate run, vulture capitalist system, restorefreedom Oct 2015 #265
Life isn't fair anywhere. Someone always has it worse or better. Pisces Oct 2015 #293
true. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #296
OP trying to troll? The benefit is for the children, not the parents pediatricmedic Oct 2015 #207
actually one of the things I would hope people would do restorefreedom Oct 2015 #256
The whole objective of family leave is for people to take off work to care for family, not to take liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #216
i see what you are saying restorefreedom Oct 2015 #222
I agree with that. Someone upthread said they took time off work for their dying dog liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #224
yes, that would be the right and humane thing imo restorefreedom Oct 2015 #238
I don't look at it that way Skittles Oct 2015 #240
of course it does restorefreedom Oct 2015 #247
Why do we need anything? This isn't about some for me some for you BainsBane Oct 2015 #254
disabled people aren't disabled by choice restorefreedom Oct 2015 #261
That sort of leave is important BainsBane Oct 2015 #272
personally I would rather see an equivalent leave restorefreedom Oct 2015 #275
I'm glad somebody brought this up. I plan to not have any children when I get married. BlueJazz Oct 2015 #255
and would you like a general "paid leave" benefit restorefreedom Oct 2015 #258
For me personally, I would'nt need any compensation or any for my wife but I was ... BlueJazz Oct 2015 #262
there are lots of ways to have family restorefreedom Oct 2015 #267
Duh..I didn't realize you were the original poster. Sorry. If it were up to me, I'd average out ... BlueJazz Oct 2015 #280
i like your idea about the package restorefreedom Oct 2015 #287
FMLA is for individuals who get ill, or need to take care of family members too REP Oct 2015 #289
Well, I didn't know that was available in that situation.. Thanks! BlueJazz Oct 2015 #291
It's Family AND Medical Leave Act REP Oct 2015 #292
And to care for aging, sick parents. nt Ilsa Oct 2015 #301
Yup, parents qualify as "family members" REP Oct 2015 #306
If you don't have kids, what you get is called "afternoons." Bucky Oct 2015 #257
:) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #266
When are we able-bodied people going to get our special parking spaces? Attorney in Texas Oct 2015 #260
Right after discrimination against white evangelicals is prosecuted and Christmas is saved. eom. Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #283
sleep Demonaut Oct 2015 #276
:) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #278
Why are you sporting a Bernie logo, Bernie supports parental leave CreekDog Oct 2015 #299
this is not about bernie or hillary restorefreedom Oct 2015 #309
What do we get? Our Childfree lives! REP Oct 2015 #288
Thank you for explaining FMLA Pool Hall Ace Oct 2015 #334
No kidding (so to speak) REP Oct 2015 #392
The privilege of having those kids grow up to be your future doctor or nurse? mainer Oct 2015 #290
to spend their income on wants instead of needs... ileus Oct 2015 #295
That is a stereotype get the red out Oct 2015 #360
yes, and assumption creates unnecessary restorefreedom Oct 2015 #453
I've cared for sick family members that were not my kids. Ilsa Oct 2015 #308
You are confusing "fair" and "equal". uppityperson Oct 2015 #313
actually, as a self employed person restorefreedom Oct 2015 #317
Agree. Couples and couples with children already get flamingdem Oct 2015 #318
true and i purposely tried restorefreedom Oct 2015 #319
Yeah, it's one group that flamingdem Oct 2015 #327
yup. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #328
The ability to sleep through the night without waking up every two hours to feed and change the kid? MohRokTah Oct 2015 #320
that is true! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #321
They get to sleep at night. dilby Oct 2015 #322
i am sure it isnt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #325
Yes and any other issue they have dilby Oct 2015 #326
this article makes a few good points restorefreedom Oct 2015 #330
not this childfree person. i don't spend my time resenting people who have children CreekDog Oct 2015 #338
no resentment towards parents restorefreedom Oct 2015 #341
Right. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #362
stating fact does not make one a hater restorefreedom Oct 2015 #364
"Or a sick family member". xmas74 Oct 2015 #331
yes i think broadening it out restorefreedom Oct 2015 #344
What everyone is calling "maternity leave" xmas74 Oct 2015 #399
it definitely does benefit us all in some form. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #458
Dedicated maternity isn't common at all. xmas74 Oct 2015 #597
to hear some it is different but family leave benefits everyone at some point. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #598
Free nights and weekends! struggle4progress Oct 2015 #337
you must be very motivated this year, because you've been a member for 11 years CreekDog Oct 2015 #346
thats an easy one for me to answer restorefreedom Oct 2015 #349
Kind of a low blow davidpdx Oct 2015 #515
The world! Chan790 Oct 2015 #347
good answer! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #351
They get to sleep through the night Dorian Gray Oct 2015 #361
Full night's sleep, relatively uncomplicated schedules, etc. JHB Oct 2015 #367
Everyone benefits. The fact that childless/childfree can't be grandfathered in is a shame kcr Oct 2015 #369
i do like the idea restorefreedom Oct 2015 #372
It already does kcr Oct 2015 #375
goody. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #379
As a childless adult, I should be given the same benefits. Deadshot Oct 2015 #377
yes, that is what i think too. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #385
good luck getting people to give a crap about the childless hfojvt Oct 2015 #380
it does turn out to be extra restorefreedom Oct 2015 #386
We get to do the parents' work to show we're "team players" jmowreader Oct 2015 #388
yup. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #389
Poverty policies also unfairly favor people with children daredtowork Oct 2015 #391
i never even thought of that connection, good point. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #421
a lifetime free of child rearing expenses. librechik Oct 2015 #393
Not to mention laundry_queen Oct 2015 #572
Sorry, this sounds a lot like the good old Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #394
Unbelievable. . . B Calm Oct 2015 #396
What do healthy people get out of sick leave? DirkGently Oct 2015 #398
parents should have some leave restorefreedom Oct 2015 #413
screwed, but it's certainly not a unique occurrence. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #402
true, there are many breaks, such as tax breaks restorefreedom Oct 2015 #415
What do people that don't have deaths in their families get instead of "Bereavement Leave"? ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #404
illness and death are not optional restorefreedom Oct 2015 #410
It costs so much in time and money to raise even one child, that I think the Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #409
I guess I think it should be expanded. I was my uncle's primary caretaker and any time taken off TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #526
You're making excellent sense here. Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #576
They get to continue to work without interruption. Chemisse Oct 2015 #429
Have you ever taken care of a newborn full time? Warpy Oct 2015 #437
no complaints about people getting time off restorefreedom Oct 2015 #465
That's what weekends are for. Warpy Oct 2015 #469
one or two weeks restorefreedom Oct 2015 #470
It is better for society Agnosticsherbet Oct 2015 #454
Same thing you get from public schooling; an improved society. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #457
i don't disagree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #467
Reform Social Security to support, rather than penalize, caregiving. elleng Oct 2015 #460
he has a good plan, ellen restorefreedom Oct 2015 #466
Yes he has, restorefreedom, elleng Oct 2015 #472
i am for bernie but i would be lying restorefreedom Oct 2015 #475
I got FMLA when my father was ill joeybee12 Oct 2015 #462
It takes a village. Nt NCTraveler Oct 2015 #474
i don't disagree at all restorefreedom Oct 2015 #477
A lower carbon tax. nt LWolf Oct 2015 #476
+1 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #478
You think taking time off for caring for a sick parent or child is comparable to a vacation notadmblnd Oct 2015 #479
certainly not. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #480
thank you for the kind words. notadmblnd Oct 2015 #483
most welcome. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #486
not having the heart break of taking care of a sick or dying family member? tandot Oct 2015 #481
sorry about your mom restorefreedom Oct 2015 #482
Thanks, restorefreedom tandot Oct 2015 #484
most welcome restorefreedom Oct 2015 #487
The freedom and lack of responsibility rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #485
no issue with taxes restorefreedom Oct 2015 #488
My point is rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #516
i don't think it is the same restorefreedom Oct 2015 #523
We exist to make babies? smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #538
Oh please sub.theory Oct 2015 #496
Nights of uninterrupted sleep (nt) Recursion Oct 2015 #489
Sounds like this is another form of the arguement that states that.... TheDebbieDee Oct 2015 #490
not at all restorefreedom Oct 2015 #491
Nothing, unfortunately sub.theory Oct 2015 #492
there have been a few interesting suggestions restorefreedom Oct 2015 #497
I'd fully support that sub.theory Oct 2015 #499
i am sure the corps would hate it restorefreedom Oct 2015 #522
We get to live in a society that keeps talented people in the workforce and supports families Iris Oct 2015 #493
i do too restorefreedom Oct 2015 #498
This is exactly what's wrong with our nation. Lyric Oct 2015 #501
Maybe it's the other way around sub.theory Oct 2015 #503
Actually, most people in this thread are saying exactly what you're saying CreekDog Oct 2015 #546
I was thinking more about th general selfishness of the country as of late. Lyric Oct 2015 #640
Peace and quiet and a night in the town! grahamhgreen Oct 2015 #502
Yep! emsimon33 Oct 2015 #505
We get leave to take care of sick & elderly parents emsimon33 Oct 2015 #504
i agree that kids are worth investing in to become good adults restorefreedom Oct 2015 #529
They get "Family Leave." nt kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #512
Simple solution JonathanRackham Oct 2015 #513
many childless people do adopt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #527
Why do you keep playing games with this? I said the same as that poster... CreekDog Oct 2015 #545
everyone with a child should get that leave restorefreedom Oct 2015 #547
I have had a read through the entire thread davidpdx Oct 2015 #517
i agree that fathers also need time restorefreedom Oct 2015 #525
a better community -society for all is what they get. riversedge Oct 2015 #528
i agree kids are worth investing in restorefreedom Oct 2015 #530
Mandated parental leave is definitely good for society. But so is incentivizing having less kids. RedCappedBandit Oct 2015 #532
+1 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #537
+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #539
Unpaid overtime. KentuckyWoman Oct 2015 #543
yes, it does become a compensation issue restorefreedom Oct 2015 #548
You don't get anything. TheManInTheMac Oct 2015 #544
what about the needs of the kidless? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #549
It's not a fuckin' reward Android3.14 Oct 2015 #553
What do cancer free people get out of their insurance plan covering a co-worker's colon cancer? Hekate Oct 2015 #554
community wellness and mutual support are important restorefreedom Oct 2015 #564
Even in Denmark... coyote Oct 2015 #555
i kind of like "personal leave" restorefreedom Oct 2015 #565
There are lots of reforms needed that would decrease strife over this issue Bradical79 Oct 2015 #557
those reforms would most definitely help restorefreedom Oct 2015 #566
What would Bernie do? He loves the Scandinavians. OTT, what does Ayn Rand have to say? Hekate Oct 2015 #559
bernie supports much more expanded leave, sick time,and vac time restorefreedom Oct 2015 #567
Never having to see the places where human shit and vomit can be. alphafemale Oct 2015 #560
babies aren't the only ones who have to have their shit cleaned restorefreedom Oct 2015 #568
Are you also jealous of people paid for Jury Duty when you are not called? alphafemale Oct 2015 #569
sickness and disability are not life choices, parenting is. not suggesting parents get no leave. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #570
Grow up. alphafemale Oct 2015 #571
most of the kidless people i know restorefreedom Oct 2015 #573
peace and quiet. lol. n/t 2pooped2pop Oct 2015 #563
They get to work overtime... Ino Oct 2015 #574
seems so. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #575
How would have my step-children's lives been if... ReallyIAmAnOptimist Oct 2015 #577
Some people just have to play life as a zero-sum game, though. To them, there is never enough... Hekate Oct 2015 #578
not trying to take any benefits away restorefreedom Oct 2015 #579
It might allow for paid leave for when someone is taking TexasBushwhacker Oct 2015 #580
sorry about your mom. glad to hear you had some time with her. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #581
This is what passes for DU these days? Whoa_Nelly Oct 2015 #589
total mischaracterization of the op and the thread restorefreedom Oct 2015 #591
In my case, the ability to go to Cancun on a whim. Rond Vidar Oct 2015 #599
that is most definitely a perk. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #600
How about just plain family leave? MountainLaurel Oct 2015 #601
i like "personal leave" best restorefreedom Oct 2015 #613
We get tagged to be on-call, and short-shrift on reserving vacation days. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #602
i never saw that bingo before restorefreedom Oct 2015 #614
We don't incentivise people to not have children at this point in time. That would be self Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #607
perhaps i am in the minority restorefreedom Oct 2015 #615
What about ME, what about ME, where's MINE MINE MINE krawhitham Oct 2015 #624
did you even read the thread? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #625
A lot of free time on their normal off hours jberryhill Oct 2015 #627
It isn't unfair to nonparents. Glassunion Oct 2015 #632
That was a beautiful response and Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #638
This thread is really long, Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #633
You get Nothing. You don't need it. This is not kindergarten. n/t Lil Missy Oct 2015 #639
no, its the working world, where compensation counts restorefreedom Oct 2015 #641
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