General Discussion

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)

107. This is dead wrong

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 02:35 AM

Mar 2016

So people vote against having machines in to do a human job? Investors pull their money and put it somewhere else, as is their right. Why pay more than you need when you can buy a machine to do it cheaply? LFace it, everyone reading this forum is using a computer made out of parts that were largely built by machine with very little human intervention.

You can't legislate against the use of a general technology like automation any more than you can legislate against telecommunications or computerization, and frankly it's kind of ridiculous to be talking on the internet about voting away automation, when the internet is probably the largest automated system that has ever existed. Do you think we should go back to having DU forum messages transcribed by human typists in response to dictation over manually routed telephone lines? No, I didn't think so.

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FiveThirtyEight: Manufacturing Jobs Are NEVER Coming Back. [View all] 4lbs Mar 2016 OP

$elling America By The Pound... Ford_Prefect Mar 2016 #1

The people doing this are both small and large business owners. randome Mar 2016 #3

Well liberalmike27 Mar 2016 #28

There wont be any bailouts for Americans my friend. Baobab Mar 2016 #128

That is why all the big companies ate their competition and now are one massive company. Rex Mar 2016 #37

And the only actual answer is for the profits that do exist to be distributed Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #126

If Congress functioned it might be better, hard to say since they refuse to follow their own laws. Rex Mar 2016 #138

that loses something in the translation AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #78

You are perhaps familiar with the term Pound of Flesh? Ford_Prefect Mar 2016 #94

Ah but it's English in origin AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #109

We need to stop sentimentalizing manufacturing jobs; there's nothing magical about them Recursion Mar 2016 #2

Exactly Major Nikon Mar 2016 #16

Excellent point (nt) Recursion Mar 2016 #21

Automation actually killed more jobs than anything else. Jitter65 Mar 2016 #130

Travel agents, secretaries, telephone operators... Recursion Mar 2016 #135

good point, and of course another slant on the need for higher minimum wage phantom power Mar 2016 #17

Very true Recursion Mar 2016 #22

Actually, we need to democratize workplaces. Mika Mar 2016 #20

Germany requires labor have votes on a company's board Recursion Mar 2016 #23

good points. Iris Mar 2016 #97

That will make little difference when most of the work is done by machines nt anigbrowl Mar 2016 #106

having worked in manufacturing in the 1990s hfojvt Mar 2016 #40

Excellent point TexasBushwhacker Mar 2016 #79

YES!!!! La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2016 #54

Most of them were dirty, dangerous, or mind-numbingly boring Retrograde Mar 2016 #62

And before the 1930s they didn't pay that. That was a social and political outcome Recursion Mar 2016 #91

look up "value-added." and "national security." nt TheFrenchRazor Mar 2016 #104

I said "jobs", not "output". Output is higher than it's ever been (nt) Recursion Mar 2016 #105

Only the paychecks Warpy Mar 2016 #129

It is still better for USA if factories come back, even if automated. Hoyt Mar 2016 #4

Agreed. KPN Mar 2016 #24

This ain't "Third Way crap" -- it's cold, hard, reality. cheapdate Mar 2016 #80

Cold, hard reality? KPN Mar 2016 #102

Outsourcing was devastating. cheapdate Mar 2016 #103

Automation is a blessing and a curse. DCBob Mar 2016 #5

And you too will be replaced by automation... Human101948 Mar 2016 #6

Very possible. DCBob Mar 2016 #7

We're eventually going to have to adopt universal basic income. backscatter712 Mar 2016 #12

Yup! KPN Mar 2016 #25

Actually... Humanist_Activist Mar 2016 #72

Perhaps Marx was right, but not in the way he thought. white_wolf Mar 2016 #74

BMI is a truly excellent idea with one basic flaw with no gentle answer whatthehey Mar 2016 #111

I would imagine that a BMI would actually create enough economic stability... Humanist_Activist Mar 2016 #120

I agree. Automation has helped but also hurt. 4lbs Mar 2016 #11

Disagree. KPN Mar 2016 #27

The TPP isn't NAFTA. 4lbs Mar 2016 #48

I didn't say that. KPN Mar 2016 #65

This is missing the point. RDANGELO Mar 2016 #8

Absolutely right. KPN Mar 2016 #30

Good points. Duppers Mar 2016 #123

I'm so glad I have tech skills. backscatter712 Mar 2016 #9

Sounds like you aren't dealing with "onshoring" at your company. MH1 Mar 2016 #44

Best post in the thread so far redstateblues Mar 2016 #101

There is no going back. countingbluecars Mar 2016 #10

Who makes the machines in that casino? seabeckind Mar 2016 #36

China. Rex Mar 2016 #39

Most of the machines are made in the US. herding cats Mar 2016 #118

So if we took those machines apart. seabeckind Mar 2016 #149

Google announced a new robot last week as "the end of manual labor" ghostsinthemachine Mar 2016 #13

Infrastructure rebuilding, Rebkeh Mar 2016 #14

Yes, infrastructure and green jobs. That's the paradigm shift. 4lbs Mar 2016 #49

Humans Need Not Apply (must watch video) ghostsinthemachine Mar 2016 #15

scottie walker bamboozled many in wis. mopinko Mar 2016 #18

yes, that fight is still fresh. Walker is a con man-not to be trusted. riversedge Mar 2016 #29

And it didn't happen anyway because iron prices are too low for it to turn a profit. Zynx Mar 2016 #34

Ben Casselman and His Anti Anti Free Trade Argument Billsmile Mar 2016 #19

Spot on! KPN Mar 2016 #31

It's a talking point to rationalize the TPP Mnpaul Mar 2016 #75

+1 liberal_at_heart Mar 2016 #85

Bernie Is The Only Antidote To Rampant DNC DWS DLC HRC Third-Way Corporatist Corruption cantbeserious Mar 2016 #26

How does Germany do it and still remain competitive wilt the stilt Mar 2016 #32

Yup! KPN Mar 2016 #33

And that is the job shift created by new technologies. 4lbs Mar 2016 #55

Following WWII I've read, part of the Allied terms and Marshall Plan was to make sure appalachiablue Mar 2016 #87

Service-based economy...where have I heard that before? seabeckind Mar 2016 #35

With A Clinton Presidency noretreatnosurrender Mar 2016 #38

I thought I heard something about robots replacing fast food workers at some point. Vinca Mar 2016 #41

There are self-service ordering kiosks at some fast food restaurants. I've seen them at McD's, 4lbs Mar 2016 #58

They have bots now that will prepare your order, fresh on the spot. They only thing preventing Purveyor Mar 2016 #76

It will be interesting to see how they handle custom orders. For example, at Burger King, you can 4lbs Mar 2016 #90

If a job can be automated, it will be. Service industries are already under asaualt. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2016 #42

That is why the workplace - all workplaces - need to be democratized. Mika Mar 2016 #45

Or perhaps it's time to get past the idea of "work" in general and have a guaranteed minimum income Spider Jerusalem Mar 2016 #67

From where? Mika Mar 2016 #68

Then it's kind of shocking that this is an alien concept: Spider Jerusalem Mar 2016 #70

Not alien to me. Mika Mar 2016 #71

This is dead wrong anigbrowl Mar 2016 #107

The computer parts we are using now Mnpaul Mar 2016 #137

Yes. Let's talk about not giving away the jobs that we DO have. MH1 Mar 2016 #43

We knew this in mfg. in 2000 Holly_Hobby Mar 2016 #46

The US (2%), Canada (18%) and Italy (3%) gained manufacturing jobs from 1991-2000. pampango Mar 2016 #47

True, but that doesn't fit the narrative bhikkhu Mar 2016 #84

Thanks. AND only 2 countries trade less than the US - Sudan and the Central African Republic. pampango Mar 2016 #89

Make it more expensive to chug a product over the largest ocean on the planet and they will. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #50

Bernie talks about rebuilding our aging crumbling infrastructure and a massive environmental Dont call me Shirley Mar 2016 #51

...And the PTB couldn't be happier about it Populist_Prole Mar 2016 #52

Amazon doesn't manufacture anything Kelvin Mace Mar 2016 #53

But it is an example of how US corporate expansion doesn't necessarily mean a tidal wave of new jobs 4lbs Mar 2016 #56

But the original post specically talks about manufacturing jobs Kelvin Mace Mar 2016 #61

Writer is a hack who's simply regurgitating WAPO neolib talking points brentspeak Mar 2016 #57

The employable population exceeds the needs of businesses. hay rick Mar 2016 #59

Your subject line has the answer to many problems. Duppers Mar 2016 #124

We love workers & jobs. Must be progressive & realistic and avoid being doctrinaire Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2016 #60

If we want to get the jobs back we need to act more like a Third World country. jalan48 Mar 2016 #63

They are not coming back to Germany, Sweden or Canada. I doubt they will go Third World pampango Mar 2016 #66

that's when we'll get 'em back Skittles Mar 2016 #77

I'm NOT buying it. fasttense Mar 2016 #64

The original machines-replacing-people industry was farming bhikkhu Mar 2016 #86

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. fasttense Mar 2016 #146

Not so much an assessment, but looking at a few facts bhikkhu Mar 2016 #147

We are NOT exporting our tomatoes to Mexico fasttense Mar 2016 #148

500 jobs Crepuscular Mar 2016 #69

The only thing preventing a computer from taking my job is computers still suck at natural... Humanist_Activist Mar 2016 #73

I had a writing job replaced by software *in the 1990s* Recursion Mar 2016 #92

Mine's customer service, and at this time, people are surprised I'm not a computer... Humanist_Activist Mar 2016 #115

True confession: I design control systems for automated manufacturing. cheapdate Mar 2016 #81

I love control engineering Recursion Mar 2016 #93

That's great! My coworkers and I have watched videos of the inverted pendulum cheapdate Mar 2016 #95

Can everyone make a living driving Uber? TheFarseer Mar 2016 #82

Nope. Self-driving cars will be here within a decade (nt) Recursion Mar 2016 #96

Well shoot TheFarseer Mar 2016 #119

I really wish intelligent people wouldn't throw gasoline on the fire LettuceSea Mar 2016 #83

Better to keep the workers out of the loop. Mika Mar 2016 #100

Electronics manufactuirng in Poland is raging. Brother_Love Mar 2016 #88

Here's another point. No one would pay the increased prices for American made only products. Yavin4 Mar 2016 #98

No it wouldn't. It would add about $50 to the cost. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #131

Kyle Wiens' analysis is not very detailed nor thorough Yavin4 Mar 2016 #134

Any JOB in the USA (or the WORLD, for that matter) should pay a LIVING WAGE. eom Hiraeth Mar 2016 #99

How could US consumers buy socks Duppers Mar 2016 #127

I agree wholeheartedly with you! Duppers Mar 2016 #132

Amazon can't ship a fishing rod for crap... ileus Mar 2016 #108

"We'd better re-think what it means to 'work'; get GMI, retrain, embrace change, blah blah blah" HughBeaumont Mar 2016 #110

+100 Duppers Mar 2016 #133

An aside, I notice Nate is from Michigan LettuceSea Mar 2016 #112

Why not, people have the right to know the truth, so we can work on solutions... Humanist_Activist Mar 2016 #113

He did acknowledge their frustration and need for solutions in the full article, i stand corrected LettuceSea Mar 2016 #114

That's the reason why there are rumblings of talk about Universal Basic Income.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2016 #117

Solutions are great. HughBeaumont Mar 2016 #116

That is the biggest obstacle, that's why its best to talk about solutions now... Humanist_Activist Mar 2016 #122

Less workers should mean less labor cost and the product cheaper for consumer. But, have B Calm Mar 2016 #121

Yes, cars are significantly cheaper now than 40 years ago Recursion Mar 2016 #136

Unfortunately salaries have not kept pace. B Calm Mar 2016 #139

A car is cheaper after inflation now than in 1975. What does "keeping pace" mean? Recursion Mar 2016 #141

In 2015 the average new car price zips 2.6% to $33,560. Where you B Calm Mar 2016 #142

Nope. The $33,560 includes light trucks (ie, SUVs), which weren't a category in 1975 Recursion Mar 2016 #143

In 1976 I bought a brand new Ford 150 for $3,000.00. A new one today costs around $30,000.00 B Calm Mar 2016 #145

Automation would bring some back Baobab Mar 2016 #125

Neither are agricultural jobs which used to employ 90% of workers. pampango Mar 2016 #140

Ultimately new lifestyles will be the answer - TBF Mar 2016 #144

And you expected something different? So Far From Heaven Mar 2016 #150