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In reply to the discussion: What is your stance on burkinis or headscarves on French (or American) beaches (or streets)? [View all]MADem
(135,425 posts)85. Italy (where your pic was taken) is a CATHOLIC country. France, OTOH, is SECULAR.
So, nice try, no cigar. Or, to put it more waggishly, right church, wrong pew!
And, from your link:
Another surprising advocate of the ban is Lorella Zanardo, a feminist advocate whose documentary film Il Corpo Delle Donne, the body of a woman, about sexism in Italian television, has helped change archaic atttidues towards women in this country. She actually donned a burqini and went to the beach to see what the buzz was about. She says she found it to be hot, heavy and uncomfortable.
Even though Zanardo has spent her career trying to make sure women are appropriately covered up in the often blatantly sexist Italian media, she believes, at least in this case, that the covers should come off.
I defend the right of Muslim women to break free of their cages, she says. Immigration should be an introduction to the culture, to the knowledge of rights, customs and traditions of other people. When I travel in the Arab world, I dress simply with a light veil, jeans or trousers. Why is it here we see sad scenes of Muslim women in Italy completely covered up and sweaty beside their men who have adopted the local customs and wear light clothes and shorts. Is that freedom? We must not allow the fear of sounding anti-Islamic trump feminism and the struggle for womens rights.
Perhaps you don't understand what a "burkini" is made of--it's not a wetsuit. It's a ripstop nylon, fast-drying outfit, that includes a long tunic so no one can see "that area" of a woman where the legs meet the rest of the body. They're not cool garments (picture yourself wrapped in a head-to-toe MEMBERS ONLY jacket on a hot beach on a sunny day)--they're just slightly less uncomfortable than street clothes, and they dry quickly, so a woman isn't left sitting in heavy damp clothing.
Do you know any wetsuits that are constructed like this?
Most wetsuits I've seen are rather sexy and form fitting. The only resemblance is that they have the little hat thingy, but otherwise, a burkini is not a wetsuit.
Sixty percent of the French people agree with the ban, and about thirty percent Just Don't Care. I rather doubt France cares what the rest of the world thinks--they aren't going to make it easy for patriarchal expressions to become the norm in their land--they just aren't. They were successful back in 2004 with the "headscarf law" which eliminated religious expressions (from all faiths) from schools and places of public accommodation and disallowed hiding the face from view; we'll have to see if this law, too, is upheld as a consequence of the secular tradition of the nation.
Funny how everyone praises France for their "nanny state" work week, wages, and health care, but when they step in and say "No--we're not going to allow women to become billboards for a sexist, misogynistic POV" that people who call themselves liberals line up on the side of the ulema and, in effect, support the practice of imprisoning women in restrictive and bulky clothing in order to ease the carnal urges of men.
I guess you have to have actually seen the negative effects of this demand placed on women, this insistence that they are dirty, unclean, slutty, etc., if they don't wear that constricting costume, be it chador, hijab, manteau, chadieri, burqua, or cutesy "burkini" to say "Unnnh unnnh--I am not going to be part of a crowd that supports misogyny disguised as choice."
Now, here in USA, people have a right to wear what they'd like, because we have Freedom OF (not FROM) Religion...so here, in USA, all I can do is roll my eyes when I see some poor woman sweating like a stuck pig in ninety degree heat while her husband strolls two feet in front of her wearing a short sleeved shirt of the thinnest cotton.
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What is your stance on burkinis or headscarves on French (or American) beaches (or streets)? [View all]
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2016
OP
That's how I feel but I am afraid that head scarfs may make those women easy targets
leftyladyfrommo
Aug 2016
#26
I don't see this uproar over Hasidic women on the beach, equally covered, walking behind husband.
TheBlackAdder
Aug 2016
#90
Muslims have enough money to vacation in France. You know, oil and stuff. here's my views:
Jeffersons Ghost
Aug 2016
#132
It's a complicated situation. I don't think the people they are approaching are vacationers.
MADem
Aug 2016
#134
Really? I can't legislate the banning of these clothes, but I don't have to like them, and
MADem
Aug 2016
#68
Why are you trying to position me as the French police, with your "Go lock them up, then" whine?
MADem
Aug 2016
#107
Not sure what your housekeeper has to do with French law, but that was quite the jump!
MADem
Aug 2016
#113
There isn't now, because the ban (and it was a temporary one) has been struck down by the courts.
MADem
Aug 2016
#172
Adam Ruins Everything. Boys used to wear dresses, Pinks and blues are a recent marketing ploy.
TheBlackAdder
Aug 2016
#94
Right on! Sometimes people have natural allergies to sunlight or took sun-sensitive medication.
TheBlackAdder
Aug 2016
#91
Men have no business telling women they can't wear burkinis or must wear burkinis.
Bernardo de La Paz
Aug 2016
#4
The shrine is a private and specifically religious location. It's not government - owned or run.
MADem
Aug 2016
#89
They were--both religious nuts, AND insufferable. They threw people out of their little
MADem
Aug 2016
#167
I'm torn- a person should be free to wear what they want but almost always there is no real choice
Lee-Lee
Aug 2016
#6
Why Arent the 2 cops Forced to wear beach attire shorts ? Is it about what is right for the beach
Person 2713
Aug 2016
#30
I don't think the police are sunbathing. That's why they aren't wearing sunbathing costumes.
MADem
Aug 2016
#143
This is a stupid poll. People can and should wear what they want. We don't need clothing
Pisces
Aug 2016
#11
It may seem stupid, but the choices basically came from the reactions here:
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2016
#16
But, it's not her choice. She is forced to cover up and conceal her body because of zealot
underahedgerow
Aug 2016
#118
Case in point, females don't HAVE the right to choose. They can't choose their husbands, they
underahedgerow
Aug 2016
#145
They certainly don't now, because French authorities demand blind obedience.
closeupready
Aug 2016
#155
Ah but there's the rub, you see. Is it force when centuries old creepy cult beliefs cause anyone to
underahedgerow
Aug 2016
#156
I'm with you. I also think there is quite a reactive situation going on with burkinis
suffragette
Aug 2016
#40
I am amazed at the "enabling" of fundamental extremism concealed under the guise of "choice"
MADem
Aug 2016
#45
Right? By suggesting it's the woman's choice, it's empowering the patriarchy instead of empowering
underahedgerow
Aug 2016
#127
Maybe we should work on sects started here in the United States first and get them in what you
Person 2713
Aug 2016
#31
Lifestyle oppression and making others uncomfortable because they are clearly wearing clothes
Person 2713
Aug 2016
#39
They aren't, as a religion, trying to impose their beliefs on the rest of us...or are they?
MADem
Aug 2016
#46
I have never had any Muslims trying to impose anything but Yes Crazy Christians ALL the time
Person 2713
Aug 2016
#64
Burkas are oppressive but Muslims in Indonesia (he largest Muslim country in the world) do not wear
pampango
Aug 2016
#38
Just like how Western women are "conditioned" to wear skimpy clothes to please men?
Odin2005
Aug 2016
#154
What a person chooses to wear isn't my business, or that of the French government.
Avalux
Aug 2016
#27
Oh, it IS the business of the French government--they are secular, and they frown upon
MADem
Aug 2016
#80
As a cancer survivor I'm advised to sunblock and wear coverage while out in the sun for hours.
eShirl
Aug 2016
#29
I have very fair skin and vomit when I'm in the sun too much. I wear linen during the summer
underahedgerow
Aug 2016
#126
Italy (where your pic was taken) is a CATHOLIC country. France, OTOH, is SECULAR.
MADem
Aug 2016
#85
Oh really? That's quite a user name you've got there, you hijab wearing male wabbit, you!
MADem
Aug 2016
#104
"...they prioritize their 'Frenchness' and they don't particularly want their society diluted..."
Il_Coniglietto
Aug 2016
#163
They DO. Maybe you should have asked for a definition of "Frenchiness" before you lashed out with
MADem
Aug 2016
#164
So it seems: "Nuns cannot wear their habits on our beaches, says deputy mayor of Cannes"
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2016
#141
I imagine that will disappoint some who really thought they had a winner with all those old pictures
MADem
Aug 2016
#150
I think people should be allowed to choose for themselves what they wear. Period. Full Stop.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2016
#49
I don't think so either.......seems like some of the same crowd offended by both ironically
Person 2713
Aug 2016
#106
Com'on...there's nothing better than dudes in Speedos. Especially elderly portly, dudes.
CincyDem
Aug 2016
#52
Why? Because they look ''gay''? Some of us can wear a speedo because we take care of our bodies.
YOHABLO
Aug 2016
#54
probably because some people let themselves go, then wear the speedos anyways. my children cannot
bravenak
Aug 2016
#57
Bad memories of pale, portly German tourists on the beaches of Malaga in the 70's.
Throd
Aug 2016
#58
LOL--don't always assume that the dislike of speedos has anything to do with homophobia!!!
MADem
Aug 2016
#74
We have "freedom of religion." You can wear a cross as big as a Christmas tree and no one
MADem
Aug 2016
#78
well I'm sure we agree that telling people what to wear or not wear, do or not do is wrong!
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2016
#174
If we must ban something on the beach, make it accordions or bagpipes or both! n/t
Binkie The Clown
Aug 2016
#133
The day I'm allowed to swim naked, I'll support any type of garment for others. nt.
FigTree
Aug 2016
#171