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In reply to the discussion: Ironically, once you decide a person or group is "stupid," you are relieved from thinking about them [View all]JCanete
(5,272 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 23, 2017, 03:22 PM - Edit history (3)
to hurt were a form of violence, and then said "that's not what I'm saying." You denied that thinking of a swath of people fundamentally different--inferior to you-- has any dehumanizing aspect.
You don't have to see the world the way a trump voter sees the world to empathize with their humanity. Empathy could be "there but for the grace of God go I." The very suggestion in saying people ARE stupid, is that there is something intrinsically wrong with them. It is obfuscating the realities of ignorance and cultural impact. Besides that we want to have our cake and eat it too. We want them both to be stupid, and to fault them for their stupidity. That seems somewhat unreasonable, and I don't subscribe to either, but those two perspectives aren't exactly compatible.
It is also a psychologically unsound approach if you want to change people's minds, to put them mentally on the defensive like this. It is far more effective not to make them the bad guy, but to make the behavior the bad guy, and give them an out. Give them an opportunity to see that that shit is not actually in keeping with their values while giving them the room to distance themselves from it. How do you think someone coming up in the world and just starting to get a sense of it and his or her own values does with information that his or her parents, who he or she loves, is a horrible stupid racist asshole? My guess? He rejects you and your message before he even hears it.
There's nothing sanctimonious about saying certain language is violent. I understand why people would engage in it. I don't judge anybody for doing it, as bad or stupid people. I think they're wrong, just as you think I'm wrong. That's why we have discussions.But I don't think you or anybody is bad for engaging in perfectly human, mild by comparison behavior.
And yes, I have plenty to say about how ignorant I think these people are on reality itself. I'm not going to shout it in their face, but I'm certainly not going to pretend that their version of reality is just as valid as any. That doesn't mean that the way they got there doesn't make perfect sense, given their environment. It doesn't mean that the forces that impacted that evolution weren't in large part outside of them. I wonder if you truly believe had you been raised in one of these places, that you would have come out differently by virtue of your special DNA or better grey matter. I wonder if you realize that you are condemning people to stupidity, if you look at demographics, entirely by virtue of where they were born and raised. I feel like that should tell you something about how this happens.
What is your view that I'm not understanding? That it is offensive to have a world view where there aren't good and bad people, and stupid and smart people?. In my opinion thinking otherwise is its own kind of fundamentalism, often reduced down to "I know stupid people when I see them." I'm not comfortable with making assumptions simply because they gel with my world view, which is why, in spite of my family and relatives being republicans, and many of them being mormon, over time, my bad assumptions were challenged and I adjusted. People do and can change when they are given the opportunity. They aren't going to get that opportunity in their own communities. If we shut that door down, or lift the draw bridge higher than they are mentally prepared to jump , then they aren't going to get that opportunity from us either.
BTW I didn't say Trump supporters were marginalized. I said the opposite.
Anyway, you can have the last word on this, unless you have a specific question for me. I'lll come back and read it and let the thread die. Apparently I've been destroyed in thread after thread, and I take it that means this is about winning...so you can have your prize.