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In reply to the discussion: Philadelphia Mayor Apparently Wants Occupy National Gathering Participants to Go Thirsty in Heat [View all]Demeter
(85,373 posts)44. Children's Crusade From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade
The Children's Crusade is the name given to a disastrous Crusade by Christian children to expel Muslims from the Holy Land said to have taken place in 1212...The variants of the long-standing story of the Children's Crusade have similar themes. A boy began preaching in either France or Germany claiming that he had been visited by Jesus and told to lead a Crusade to peacefully convert Muslims to Christianity. Through a series of supposed portents and miracles he gained a considerable following, including possibly as many as 30,000 children. He led his followers south towards the Mediterranean Sea, in the belief that the sea would part on their arrival, allowing him and his followers to march to Jerusalem, but this did not happen. Two merchants gave free passage on boats to as many of the children as were willing, but they were actually either taken to Tunisia and sold into slavery, or died in a shipwreck on San Pietro Island off Sardinia during a gale. Some may have failed to reach the sea, dying or giving up from starvation and exhaustion.
The traditional narrative is probably conflated from some factual and mythical notions of the period including visions by a French or German boy, an intention to peacefully convert Muslims in the Holy Land to Christianity, bands of children marching to Italy, and children being sold into slavery....According to more recent research there seem to have actually been two movements of people (of all ages) in 1212 in Germany and France. The similarities of the two allowed later chroniclers to combine and embellish the tales.
In the first movement, Nicholas, a shepherd from the Rhineland in Germany who possessed an extraordinary power of speech, tried to lead a group across the Alps and into Italy in the early spring of 1212. Nicholas promised that the sea would dry up before them and allow his followers to cross into the Holy Land. Rather than intending to fight the Saracens, he said that the Moslem kingdoms would be defeated when their citizens converted to Christianity. His disciples went off to preach the call for the "Crusade" across the German lands, and they massed in Cologne after a few weeks. Splitting into two groups, the crowds took different roads through Switzerland. Two out of every three people on this ghastly journey died, while many others returned to their homes. About 7,000 arrived in Genoa in late August. They immediately marched to the harbor, expecting the sea to divide before them; when it did not many became bitterly disappointed. A few accused Nicholas of betraying them, while others settled down to wait for God to change his mind, since they believed that it was unthinkable he would not eventually do so. The Genoese authorities were impressed by the little band, and they offered citizenship to those who wished to settle in their city. Most of the would-be Crusaders took up this opportunity. Nicholas refused to admit defeat and traveled to Pisa, his movement continuing to break up along the way. He and a few loyal followers continued to the Papal States, where Pope Innocent III treated them kindly enough. The remaining ones departed for Germany after the Pontiff told them to be good and return home. Nicholas did not survive the second attempt across the Alps; back home his father was arrested and hanged under pressure from angry families whose relatives had perished while following the child.
Some of the most dedicated members of this Crusade were later reported to have wandered to Ancona and Brindisi; none reached the Holy Land.
The second movement was led by a twelve-year-old French shepherd boy named Stephan of Cloyes, who claimed in June that he bore a letter for the king of France from Jesus. Large gangs of youth around his age were drawn to him, most of whom claimed to possess special gifts of God and thought themselves miracle workers. Attracting a following of over 30,000 adults and children, he went to Saint-Denis, where he was seen to cause miracles. On the orders of Philip II, advised by the University of Paris, the people were implored to return home. Philip himself did not appear impressed, especially since his unexpected visitors were led by a mere child, and refused to take them seriously. Stephan, however, was not dissuaded, and began preaching at a nearby abbey. From Saint-Denis, Stephan traveled around France, spreading his messages as he went, promising to lead charges of Christ to Jerusalem. Although the Church was skeptical, many adults were impressed by his teaching. Still, few of those who initially joined him possessed his activeness; it is estimated that there were less than half the initial 30,000 remaining, a figure that was shrinking rapidly, rather than growing as perhaps anticipated.
At the end of June 1212, Stephan led his largely juvenile Crusaders from Vendôme to Marseilles. They survived by begging for food, while the vast majority seem to have been disheartened by the hardship of this journey and returned to their families.
A study published in 1977 cast doubt on the existence of these events, and many historians came to believe that they were not (or not primarily) children but multiple bands of "wandering poor" in Germany and France, some of whom tried to reach the Holy Land and others who never intended to do so. Early versions of events, of which there are many variations told over the centuries, are largely apocryphal...Recent research suggests the participants were not children, at least not the very young. The confusion started because later chroniclers, who were not witness to the events of 1212 and who were writing 30 years or more later, began to translate the original accounts and understood the Latin word pueri, meaning "boys", to mean literally "children". The original accounts did use the term pueri, but it had a derogatory slang meaning, as in present-day calling an adult man a "boy" to be condescending. In the early 13th century, bands of wandering poor started cropping up throughout Europe; these were people displaced by economic changes at the time which forced many peasants in northern France and Germany to sell their landthey were often referred to condescendingly as pueri. This mistaken literal interpretation of pueri as "children" gave rise to the idea of a "Children's Crusade" by later authors who found the story too good not to be true, particularly with so much public support and interest in crusading. Within a generation or two after 1212, the idea of children going on crusade became ingrained in history, retold countless times over the centuries with many different versions, and only in the 20th century has the myth been re-examined by looking at the earliest sources (see Historical studies AT LINK).
The Children's Crusade is the name given to a disastrous Crusade by Christian children to expel Muslims from the Holy Land said to have taken place in 1212...The variants of the long-standing story of the Children's Crusade have similar themes. A boy began preaching in either France or Germany claiming that he had been visited by Jesus and told to lead a Crusade to peacefully convert Muslims to Christianity. Through a series of supposed portents and miracles he gained a considerable following, including possibly as many as 30,000 children. He led his followers south towards the Mediterranean Sea, in the belief that the sea would part on their arrival, allowing him and his followers to march to Jerusalem, but this did not happen. Two merchants gave free passage on boats to as many of the children as were willing, but they were actually either taken to Tunisia and sold into slavery, or died in a shipwreck on San Pietro Island off Sardinia during a gale. Some may have failed to reach the sea, dying or giving up from starvation and exhaustion.
The traditional narrative is probably conflated from some factual and mythical notions of the period including visions by a French or German boy, an intention to peacefully convert Muslims in the Holy Land to Christianity, bands of children marching to Italy, and children being sold into slavery....According to more recent research there seem to have actually been two movements of people (of all ages) in 1212 in Germany and France. The similarities of the two allowed later chroniclers to combine and embellish the tales.
In the first movement, Nicholas, a shepherd from the Rhineland in Germany who possessed an extraordinary power of speech, tried to lead a group across the Alps and into Italy in the early spring of 1212. Nicholas promised that the sea would dry up before them and allow his followers to cross into the Holy Land. Rather than intending to fight the Saracens, he said that the Moslem kingdoms would be defeated when their citizens converted to Christianity. His disciples went off to preach the call for the "Crusade" across the German lands, and they massed in Cologne after a few weeks. Splitting into two groups, the crowds took different roads through Switzerland. Two out of every three people on this ghastly journey died, while many others returned to their homes. About 7,000 arrived in Genoa in late August. They immediately marched to the harbor, expecting the sea to divide before them; when it did not many became bitterly disappointed. A few accused Nicholas of betraying them, while others settled down to wait for God to change his mind, since they believed that it was unthinkable he would not eventually do so. The Genoese authorities were impressed by the little band, and they offered citizenship to those who wished to settle in their city. Most of the would-be Crusaders took up this opportunity. Nicholas refused to admit defeat and traveled to Pisa, his movement continuing to break up along the way. He and a few loyal followers continued to the Papal States, where Pope Innocent III treated them kindly enough. The remaining ones departed for Germany after the Pontiff told them to be good and return home. Nicholas did not survive the second attempt across the Alps; back home his father was arrested and hanged under pressure from angry families whose relatives had perished while following the child.
Some of the most dedicated members of this Crusade were later reported to have wandered to Ancona and Brindisi; none reached the Holy Land.
The second movement was led by a twelve-year-old French shepherd boy named Stephan of Cloyes, who claimed in June that he bore a letter for the king of France from Jesus. Large gangs of youth around his age were drawn to him, most of whom claimed to possess special gifts of God and thought themselves miracle workers. Attracting a following of over 30,000 adults and children, he went to Saint-Denis, where he was seen to cause miracles. On the orders of Philip II, advised by the University of Paris, the people were implored to return home. Philip himself did not appear impressed, especially since his unexpected visitors were led by a mere child, and refused to take them seriously. Stephan, however, was not dissuaded, and began preaching at a nearby abbey. From Saint-Denis, Stephan traveled around France, spreading his messages as he went, promising to lead charges of Christ to Jerusalem. Although the Church was skeptical, many adults were impressed by his teaching. Still, few of those who initially joined him possessed his activeness; it is estimated that there were less than half the initial 30,000 remaining, a figure that was shrinking rapidly, rather than growing as perhaps anticipated.
At the end of June 1212, Stephan led his largely juvenile Crusaders from Vendôme to Marseilles. They survived by begging for food, while the vast majority seem to have been disheartened by the hardship of this journey and returned to their families.
A study published in 1977 cast doubt on the existence of these events, and many historians came to believe that they were not (or not primarily) children but multiple bands of "wandering poor" in Germany and France, some of whom tried to reach the Holy Land and others who never intended to do so. Early versions of events, of which there are many variations told over the centuries, are largely apocryphal...Recent research suggests the participants were not children, at least not the very young. The confusion started because later chroniclers, who were not witness to the events of 1212 and who were writing 30 years or more later, began to translate the original accounts and understood the Latin word pueri, meaning "boys", to mean literally "children". The original accounts did use the term pueri, but it had a derogatory slang meaning, as in present-day calling an adult man a "boy" to be condescending. In the early 13th century, bands of wandering poor started cropping up throughout Europe; these were people displaced by economic changes at the time which forced many peasants in northern France and Germany to sell their landthey were often referred to condescendingly as pueri. This mistaken literal interpretation of pueri as "children" gave rise to the idea of a "Children's Crusade" by later authors who found the story too good not to be true, particularly with so much public support and interest in crusading. Within a generation or two after 1212, the idea of children going on crusade became ingrained in history, retold countless times over the centuries with many different versions, and only in the 20th century has the myth been re-examined by looking at the earliest sources (see Historical studies AT LINK).
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Philadelphia Mayor Apparently Wants Occupy National Gathering Participants to Go Thirsty in Heat [View all]
Hissyspit
Jul 2012
OP
Democratic mayors are behind some of the worst violence against Occupy so it's equal opportunity.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#2
It does reveal the depth to which they will all sink in order to attempt to hurt the movement.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#59
"Let them die" is a Libertarian position. I'm not getting this at all.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#153
Philadelphia Mayor Wants Occupy National Gathering Participants to Go Thirsty in Heat
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#9
asked about denying water to the protesters in dangerously oppressive heat: "Just following orders."
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#26
The Occupiers are pretty naive to depend on the Establishment to support them.
bluedigger
Jul 2012
#27
It's pretty clear from the linked article that they didn't plan on having their own water supply
SickOfTheOnePct
Jul 2012
#108
ALERT:There is no video from #NATGAT MASS ARREST. All streamers have been arrested.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#35
Occupiers are creating an "emergency:" where none exists and you have no knowledge..
GarroHorus
Jul 2012
#65
Can you imagine protesters milling around outside the fire station while getting water?
randome
Jul 2012
#110
If you're sick of the 1%, how about being sick of the(ir) concept of paying for water.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#142
Being sick of the 1% doesn't mean that the Occupiers don't have to exercise some responsiblity
SickOfTheOnePct
Jul 2012
#145
I think horizontalism must be the way to go, if everyone is okay with people dying from heat.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#148
Quick question, yes or no, do we care for our brothers and sisters in dire need?
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#158
I will not step into your distractions. Take care of people in need, period. End of story.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#173
Why didn't some of the Occupiers care enough about their fellow protesters
SickOfTheOnePct
Jul 2012
#209
Occupy organizers are providing water to participants in Philly, per I text I just received.
yardwork
Jul 2012
#211
Maybe they did have water stations yesterday, too. It doesn't negate the mayor's behavior.
yardwork
Jul 2012
#214
So a fire station gives out all its water during a drought to Occupiers and then a fire happens.
GarroHorus
Jul 2012
#47
"Expect public servants to serve the public"? What country do you think this is?
Zalatix
Jul 2012
#84
"...evolution in action" is a Larry Niven line, and he's a die-hard Ronald Reagan fan.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#136
Odd you are not alarmed to find yourself quoting a staunch Republican
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#154
Let them die, dog eat dog. That's quite a philosophy you have there.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#171
give me some evidence/facts on this claim and i'll listen, until then i'll agree with poor planning.
Bodhi BloodWave
Jul 2012
#87
In this case it looks like they were just expecting the fire department to
4th law of robotics
Jul 2012
#93
What? They didn't bring water to the revolution? And these are folks we're relying on.....
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#76
a true friend would tell said friend when they are acting in an idiotic manner
Bodhi BloodWave
Jul 2012
#203
It's rather brutal to see people on DU cheering on the misery of the occupiers or any other human
myrna minx
Jul 2012
#97
No one wants anyone to be miserable. (Well, for the vast majority of us, maybe.)
randome
Jul 2012
#99
That's a Libertarian position, isn't it? They should have known better so let them suffer/die?
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#183
The conditions have already been stated as ripe for heat stroke and death.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#160
If you don't see a difference between a tornado and carrying a bottle or two of water....
PavePusher
Jul 2012
#165
I fear a future where adults are too stupid or lazy to supply the most basic survival need.
Throd
Jul 2012
#187
I can't believe people wouldn't go out in the heat without anything to drink..
snooper2
Jul 2012
#118
I'm reporting a text I just received from somebody who is in Philly at Occupy.
yardwork
Jul 2012
#198
I am seriously considering leaving DU for good because of it. This
coalition_unwilling
Jul 2012
#227
I hope the Quakers stand up to their usual standards. They have been on the right side of the
jwirr
Jul 2012
#111
One aspect of Occupy is that the illusion of scarcity is only an illusion.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#135
My point is freedom vs. Capitalism. Obviously, capitalism and its proponents are OK when people die.
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#146
Seriously? You do not imagine that I am aware of our systems of storage and filtration and
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#149
June 30: Man hit in the throat with baton at Occupy Philadelphia #NatGat:
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2012
#224