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BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
29. I agree that Nixon could pardon Ford. I was using the question to dispute the logic in the OP.
Mon Jul 24, 2017, 09:45 PM
Jul 2017

From the OP:


It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.


The logic of the OP says that because of the first sentence in the above quote, an impeached president cannot pardon himself. I was pointing out that the logic of that argument would not just prohibit self-pardons, but a much larger universe of pardons. In other words, the logic leads to an absurdity, which means that there is something wrong with the logic.

I happen to disagree with the second sentence. The provision in the first sentence (that an official removed through impeachment remains subject to prosecution) makes perfect sense, even if the president could pardon himself. It doesn't say that impeached officials are ALWAYS subject to prosecution, under all circumstances. It just means that the act of impeachment does not remove the ability to prosecute (and is in fact wholly independent). It does not prohibit OTHER circumstances (such as a pardon, prosecutorial grant of immunity, jury finding of not-guilty, etc) from removing the ability to prosecute.

Now, despite the logic of the OP being somewhat unsound, I do believe self pardons would be unconstitutional. But my reasoning has nothing to do with the sentences quoted from the OP.
Jeez, what a blast from the past. "Dr. Bonham's Case" -- The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #1
sorry, I forgot to include the link. Nitram Jul 2017 #3
Is it possible to post the specific portion of the Constitution referenced by the original post? Not Ruth Jul 2017 #2
It doesn't supercede the constitution. It is one precedent in English Law upon which Nitram Jul 2017 #4
This, too. Nitram Jul 2017 #5
So Trump could pardon himself, but if he were impeached, that would negate the pardon? Not Ruth Jul 2017 #11
I would argue that he attempted to pardon himself LiberalFighter Jul 2017 #27
Esp. in this case. Igel Jul 2017 #7
It's hard to believe we are even discussing this... spiderpig Jul 2017 #6
Why? Igel Jul 2017 #8
It is a weak argument. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #9
Voltaire, do you mind if I ask in you have a background in law? Nitram Jul 2017 #10
Nope. Just another ignorant opinion. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #12
Join the club! Nitram Jul 2017 #13
Tribe, Painter and Eisen are some pretty heavy intellectual hitters The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #16
It seems weak to me for the reason stated. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #17
If you read the article carefully it makes a lot of sense. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #19
Agreed. Does this mean they have also found a prohibition against pardoning Cabinet officers or tritsofme Jul 2017 #18
I agree with Prof Tribe Gothmog Jul 2017 #14
The Supreme Court would find that the President can't pardon themself. The vote... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #15
Doubtful, you can almost bank Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch tritsofme Jul 2017 #20
Even conservative judges are reluctant to give up power and authority. Nitram Jul 2017 #21
So if Nixon didn't resign and was removed, Ford couldn't have pardoned him? BzaDem Jul 2017 #22
Of course Ford could have pardoned Nixon if he'd been impeached and removed. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #23
I agree that Nixon could pardon Ford. I was using the question to dispute the logic in the OP. BzaDem Jul 2017 #29
The president can't pardon against impeachment NobodyHere Jul 2017 #24
I think he can pardon himself because well... Biden rule. tandem5 Jul 2017 #25
lol... SummerSnow Jul 2017 #26
Pardons don't protect from impeachment. Renew Deal Jul 2017 #28
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»No, Trump cant pardon him...»Reply #29