General Discussion

Willie Pep

(841 posts)

55. I would probably never join the DSA.

Tue Aug 8, 2017, 04:48 PM

Aug 2017

I disagree with the socialist left on a number of things, but at the same time I think the popularity of socialism in this country can be a good thing. The populist and socialist movements eventually pushed the Democratic Party to the left under FDR who adopted many of their ideas.

It is good to have an active left-wing movement in this country to counter the right. My only concern is that they don't go overboard and make the perfect the enemy of the good. I sometimes see this with online leftists who seem to attack Democrats more than Republicans and say stuff like "both parties are the same." Aside from being factually incorrect it promotes a kind of counterproductive anti-politics where anyone who isn't 100 percent on your side is thrown to the wolves. Not a smart thing to do especially if your side is weaker and poorer than the opposition.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

124 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

"America Has a Long and Storied Socialist Tradition. DSA Is Reviving It." [View all] Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 OP

DURec leftstreet Aug 2017 #1

Hate to admit this - it is the first time I heard of them... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #2

Yes, but we also have a long and ugly tradition of Americans hating and fearing socialism DavidDvorkin Aug 2017 #3

Also from the article: Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #4

I think your statement could be turned around. George II Aug 2017 #93

I think that among younger people, this isn't as much of a factor. David__77 Aug 2017 #5

But a new love of Russian dictators and oligarchs Generic Other Aug 2017 #24

Indeed; very strange. DavidDvorkin Aug 2017 #35

Years of unbridled Spencerian capitalism Generic Other Aug 2017 #40

Is that paraphrasing Pat Robertson? Ninsianna Aug 2017 #6

FDR is the founder of the modern Democratic party Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #7

Just out of curiosity ... Tavarious Jackson Aug 2017 #8

You will learn more if you research that yourself... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #10

Lower than Eisenhower higher than now Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #11

In 1935 the top rate was 63% and 33% on Capital Gains. They're about 40% and 20% now. George II Aug 2017 #79

Well, not under FDR, but just afterward: JHB Aug 2017 #117

Agreed...! Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #9

This is The Big Lie... Expecting Rain Aug 2017 #16

Right Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #17

FDR never called himself a Democratic Socialist. Expecting Rain Aug 2017 #18

He was also trying to recover from the worst world depression in history. George II Aug 2017 #80

The only way to do so is at the ballot box GulfCoast66 Aug 2017 #25

Thanks! Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #27

Tell me again why you guys are using DU for this venture? DU...whose rules are very straightforward. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2017 #111

Nope. Ninsianna Aug 2017 #28

Do you believe in unions? Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #29

Do you believe that proselytization and taking over a party that you claim should reflect Ninsianna Aug 2017 #37

Maybe an understanding of the term would fend of further ignorance of anybody who uses it Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #41

Mabye an understanding of the organziation being discussed here would Ninsianna Aug 2017 #43

More like the 1930s, almost 90 years ago in a completely different time. George II Aug 2017 #81

Thanks for the correction. Ninsianna Aug 2017 #99

At least I didn't correct your spelling: George II Aug 2017 #102

But he didn't correct my spelling, he just proved that he couldn't figure out what Ninsianna Aug 2017 #104

Many has been a time that I left out a vowel or two in order to keep my post within the title. George II Aug 2017 #110

I was just typing fast and have become way too reliant on that wavy little line under Ninsianna Aug 2017 #115

that will come as a surprise to the 40% of Republican union members in this BainsBane Aug 2017 #69

My Democratic Party membership is worth EXACTLY as much as yours. Nevernose Aug 2017 #107

Then why do so many people think theirs is worth more and that the rest of us Ninsianna Aug 2017 #114

The New Deal was the product of an unprecedented series of events from the 1920s to 1932. George II Aug 2017 #77

If the socialists have so much support and so many thousands, why don't they form their own party?.. socialist_n_TN Aug 2017 #23

It is much like the Libertarians in that they will never be in power wasupaloopa Aug 2017 #50

There's The Question Me. Aug 2017 #85

Actually, most of the socialist left doesn't want a "socialist" party.......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2017 #123

No thanks, I oppose government control of the means of production. Foamfollower Aug 2017 #12

Democratic socialism is giving workers more control of the means of production (ie unions) Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #26

You seem to be a little confused here. Democratic socialism at a concept is not Ninsianna Aug 2017 #42

I may be. However Unions are all but dead. Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #46

Funny how the Unions don't agree. Ninsianna Aug 2017 #65

35% of households in 1945 had union membership Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #74

And the DSA has done what to address this? Ninsianna Aug 2017 #98

It is is clear you aren't interested in a meaningful debate at the moment. Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #101

What's clear is that meanignful debate is not your intent, or you'd try to stay on topic Ninsianna Aug 2017 #103

Go to the DSA website and their history.... George II Aug 2017 #105

How many people did their convention draw in? Ninsianna Aug 2017 #109

Prolly* because there was no free Ben & Jerry ice cream in the lobby. (*probably) George II Aug 2017 #113

lol Ninsianna Aug 2017 #118

Perhaps the DSA could run their own candidates and show us how popular they are... brooklynite Aug 2017 #108

"Right to a decent job"...How is "decent" defined in this context, who defines "decent"? The state? Marengo Aug 2017 #13

The worker (ie unions) Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #30

Would this "right" be added to our Constitution? Marengo Aug 2017 #52

I'm a DSA member and I hope to see the org grow even more in the coming years. DemocraticWing Aug 2017 #14

"Democratic Socialism" not 'socialism'... there is a big difference... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #15

Tell it to Hugo Chavez Expecting Rain Aug 2017 #19

No, democratic socialism is the solution. Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #20

The relgious dogma is breathtaking. Pat would be proud. Ninsianna Aug 2017 #44

What's 'relgious'? Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #47

If you're actually having a hard time figuring out what typo that left out a single letter means, Ninsianna Aug 2017 #62

Lol... JHan Aug 2017 #70

People obsessing over typos? How 1990s un-netique! George II Aug 2017 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author Ninsianna Aug 2017 #106

To what? George II Aug 2017 #83

Please check out on your own the difference between Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #22

Also Hugo Chavez oppressed and destroyed unions Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #31

It must be frustrating to equate two different political parties from two different nations LanternWaste Aug 2017 #32

And if you're talking about the US vs. Denmark, two totally different economies, two totally.. George II Aug 2017 #84

Interesting how much confusion there seems to be about that. Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #21

Yes the intentional conflation of the term and the topic under discussion sure is confusing. Ninsianna Aug 2017 #45

Excuse me, but you must have mistaken me for somebody who doesn't know the definition of Foamfollower Aug 2017 #66

Yeah, run a socialist in say, Kentucky... Blue_Tires Aug 2017 #33

There is no 'socialist' running or in office that I am aware of... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #34

Fine, run one of those in the South Blue_Tires Aug 2017 #36

Beto o rourke Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #38

Interesting how things topic has so many negative posts DBoon Aug 2017 #39

I see many members not agreeing with very high post counts. sheshe2 Aug 2017 #121

You know perfectly well calling people out is not allowed DBoon Aug 2017 #124

Democratic Socialism has a branding problem. Dark n Stormy Knight Aug 2017 #48

Far too many Americans are dumber than dirt... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #49

Yep. Which explains how so many Rs get elected. Dark n Stormy Knight Aug 2017 #53

Exactly. You made a very good point that I also subscribe to... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #54

I'd say many Americans are rightfully fearful of words whose meanings they understand precisely well Expecting Rain Aug 2017 #56

Democratic Socialism is what the Constitution of the USA also describes... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #57

What lies. Expecting Rain Aug 2017 #58

So FDR is now a framer of the Constituion which somehow now describes Ninsianna Aug 2017 #122

Excuse me? Dumber than dirt???? George II Aug 2017 #75

Thanks malaise Aug 2017 #51

I would probably never join the DSA. Willie Pep Aug 2017 #55

If DSA ever gained actual power, I would fight against them to my dying breath. Foamfollower Aug 2017 #112

I think you're safe on that front. Ninsianna Aug 2017 #119

That tradition goes back even further. LWolf Aug 2017 #59

I like your graphic... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #60

In the late 19th century, LWolf Aug 2017 #63

Thanks for the history lesson! Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #64

no apologies LWolf Aug 2017 #67

None of those groups were socialist BainsBane Aug 2017 #71

Maybe it's hipster irony... lapucelle Aug 2017 #61

What Do They Do With The Money? Me. Aug 2017 #86

Protest signage? A portable printing press? lapucelle Aug 2017 #96

Could Be Any Of Those...Or Not :) Me. Aug 2017 #97

All the way to a Republican win. Nt. MonkeyC Aug 2017 #68

The author doesn't seem to realize that Sanders pointed to a Social Democrat BainsBane Aug 2017 #72

Thank you Bains for correcting the record. sheshe2 Aug 2017 #78

Denmark is a tiny country, smaller than 41 of the 50 United States, with GDP about.... George II Aug 2017 #73

THIS! sheshe2 Aug 2017 #76

Socialism, "democratic" or otherwise, is not what Denmark has DFW Aug 2017 #87

And yet Denmark is repeatedly put up as the model of "Democratic Socialism" by... George II Aug 2017 #88

I know. It irks the Danes, too DFW Aug 2017 #92

Social Democracy is similar to Democratic Socialist in that... Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #89

Even if they believe in the Great Pumpkin DFW Aug 2017 #91

Wrong. Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #94

The Constitution also doesn't mention 'social', 'socialism' or even 'democracy' NobodyHere Aug 2017 #116

For younger folks, here are the names of some good people in the U.S. socialist tradition: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #82

While I like John on a personal basis DFW Aug 2017 #90

See my post # 94 Trial_By_Fire Aug 2017 #95

I do not find "socialism" or "capitalism" to be useful distinctions at times. David__77 Aug 2017 #120