General Discussion

Nanjeanne

(5,468 posts)

63. I agree. We have made big mistakes in borrowing Republican words and letting the,

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 11:26 AM

Sep 2017

define arguments. I remember how Joe Biden was ridiculed for saying paying taxes was patriotic. I wish Democrats would discuss taxes as what we pay to live in the commons and not give in to the fear of "higher taxes". But unfortunately messaging isn't a strong point in the Democratic Party.

However this discussion needs to be had and Dems should to start defining their aspirations for this country in ways that give people hope and inspiration. Obama won on Hope and Change. It was refreshing. We need big bold ideas and the words to inspire people to realize their taxes could go for things that make their lives better. Right now taxes are subsidizing corporate insurance companies that turn huge profits and pay exhorbitant executive salaries. Personally I'd rather have my taxes go for health CARE and not tv commercials. Seems like Dems could find the way to frame the argument better.

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Are some on DU hoping Single Payer Health care fails? [View all] Chasstev365 Sep 2017 OP

I don't think it's the 'what' but it's the 'who.' egduj Sep 2017 #1

From what I've seen, it's the "how" brer cat Sep 2017 #97

++++ sheshe2 Sep 2017 #106

Maybe they're simply observing, rather than "pushing". whathehell Sep 2017 #133

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #151

Precisely Me. Sep 2017 #162

Bingo. (NT) ehrnst Sep 2017 #181

sure it is. Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #207

NO. It's the "Will we lose EVERYTHING in the process?" Hortensis Sep 2017 #175

Bingo. (NT) ehrnst Sep 2017 #179

Not me!!!! get the red out Sep 2017 #2

Not me too!! I don't see how anyone can consider themselves a progressive and not believe... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #127

One can advocate for that in other ways than Single Payer ehrnst Sep 2017 #152

Never said there weren't other ways. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #167

Many, right here on DU don't distinguish between Single Payer with "universal health care" ehrnst Sep 2017 #170

Gotcha. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #178

Because Bernie BeyondGeography Sep 2017 #3

Exactly!nt m-lekktor Sep 2017 #21

Remember how some madokie Sep 2017 #34

I remember well... sheshe2 Sep 2017 #107

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #45

+1 beam me up scottie Sep 2017 #67

People whining about spittle-flecked rage instead of discussing issues is why I don't spend a lot of MADem Sep 2017 #90

Actually Debbie Dingell has introduced one, and before that her husband, John, introduced it... George II Sep 2017 #93

It's not going to happen. It's nice to rally round the flag, but it's more important to spare ACA MADem Sep 2017 #96

Trying to shore up the ACA and pushing for single payer are two different issues mdbl Sep 2017 #102

Doesn't single payer momrentum actually help accomplish that? KPN Sep 2017 #155

Not really. ehrnst Sep 2017 #202

False equalization Vermont. KPN Sep 2017 #205

No, it's not the only way. And nope - not a false equalization. ehrnst Sep 2017 #211

Is false equalization. Economies of scale is a huge factor. KPN Sep 2017 #213

NO. While a certain subset are pushing for M4A (which will not happen, not this legislative session MADem Sep 2017 #217

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #182

Many here seem to think that Bernie's plan is the only way to get to universal health care ehrnst Sep 2017 #171

Well, they're wrong, aren't they? NurseJackie Sep 2017 #174

But that would mean maybe they got other things wrong too... ehrnst Sep 2017 #183

The fear that something might pass that gets called SandersCare is understandable. Orsino Sep 2017 #214

I am for any plan that covers everybody and can get passed by Congress DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 #4

That second part is key - one that can get passed by Congress. George II Sep 2017 #89

Most countries do it with multi-payer systems ehrnst Sep 2017 #150

It's no different than dozens of "repeal and replace" votes in that sense. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #180

Answer: no brooklynite Sep 2017 #5

I'm for UNIVERSAL healthcare. If that includes single-payer, I'm down with it. haveahart Sep 2017 #42

This Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Sep 2017 #115

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #153

I don't think so. Seems people are concerned about the strategy of banging the drum seaglass Sep 2017 #6

This is the correct answer genxlib Sep 2017 #36

Just to be clear genxlib Sep 2017 #44

There was no counter punch to the Tea Party by the left. HopeAgain Sep 2017 #161

That is 1/3rd of where I am at. The other 2/3rds is, having been part of delivering some Medicare stevenleser Sep 2017 #141

lol... stonecutter357 Sep 2017 #7

... LexVegas Sep 2017 #8

I fully support single payer but the ACA was war and piece tymorial Sep 2017 #9

I've never received a 96 page pamphlet...n/t TCJ70 Sep 2017 #14

It's a comparison. And a rather accurate one inmo tymorial Sep 2017 #19

I like what you said. sprinkleeninow Sep 2017 #138

Of course they are melman Sep 2017 #10

The answer is yes, indeed. democrank Sep 2017 #11

Oh yes, and completely predictable... Raster Sep 2017 #16

Someone should make a bingo card out of those. beam me up scottie Sep 2017 #69

We don't know how much the most recent plan will cost, particularly since the most recent plan.... George II Sep 2017 #77

Maybe we could send a U.S. delegation on a listening tour to all the industrialized nations democrank Sep 2017 #130

Please link to all the comments that you stated. TIA. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #108

+1 shanny Sep 2017 #125

Yeah, pretty much. TDale313 Sep 2017 #132

Not here treestar Sep 2017 #156

It can be convenient for a lazy mind to equate tactics with goal LanternWaste Sep 2017 #12

Can you prove this? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #27

Posting something twice makes it true. QC Sep 2017 #59

! beam me up scottie Sep 2017 #70

Is there an echo in here? Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #95

"It can be convenient for a lazy mind to equate tactics wth goals". lapucelle Sep 2017 #104

Overwhelmingly, that is what the discussion has been about. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #121

Not me! demmiblue Sep 2017 #13

Probably but here is an excellent piece that talks abt the good politics of it. Nanjeanne Sep 2017 #15

This is a good article. But here is the problem with it. StevieM Sep 2017 #41

I agree. We have made big mistakes in borrowing Republican words and letting the, Nanjeanne Sep 2017 #63

thanks for sharing clu Sep 2017 #137

"Repeal and Replace" was the way the GOP gave their base "hope" ehrnst Sep 2017 #172

I wouldn't mind Dems insisting over and over u till it became a mantra for Nanjeanne Sep 2017 #184

You mean like "defund Planned Parenthood!!!" the mantra that will ehrnst Sep 2017 #185

I have zero idea what u are talking about. Who said mantras are always right?I said Nanjeanne Sep 2017 #188

I guess you think that the mantra you suggested isn't neccessarily right? Or you don't care if it is ehrnst Sep 2017 #190

I'm sorry you are so confused. nt Nanjeanne Sep 2017 #192

Well, that's one way to avoid coming up with a response... (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #194

My posts are your answers. But you are unable to comprehend any of it. So there Nanjeanne Sep 2017 #204

I've been waiting for health care that covers everyone since my kids were little shraby Sep 2017 #17

Nope, some here are absolute realists. Lee Adama Sep 2017 #18

True, unfortunately LyndaG Sep 2017 #43

Realists are such debbie downers... (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #186

Here's what you don't understand NJCher Sep 2017 #193

But there are other more realistic ways to get to UHC. ehrnst Sep 2017 #206

They shouldn't be off the table NJCher Sep 2017 #208

They will be if M4A is the only acceptable goal ehrnst Sep 2017 #210

Not me. I can't afford ACA! Joe941 Sep 2017 #20

Really? So you would prefer nothing like the Repblicans? Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #24

I think Joe is saying he supports single payer because even under the ACA xor Sep 2017 #50

wow wise words clu Sep 2017 #147

The ACA premiums are too expensive for me in this area... Joe941 Sep 2017 #212

ACA was affordable for me. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #109

That's what VT residents said about Green Mountain Care. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #195

For some, cult of personality and pettiness trump actual policies and progress. nt. JoeStuckInOH Sep 2017 #22

Mostly, those of us against this futile bill that has no shot...don't want to lose in 18 and 20... Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #23

by all means, let's not offend the republicans shanny Sep 2017 #131

No, we don't want to see the ACA fail. Republicans were resigning themselves to the idea that Trust Buster Sep 2017 #25

Nope - just realistic about it happening JustAnotherGen Sep 2017 #26

It is about waking up America Not Ruth Sep 2017 #28

Unfortunately - we don't get to vote on the floor JustAnotherGen Sep 2017 #31

All I know is . . .. HughBeaumont Sep 2017 #29

I think we still have Russian trolls here Greybnk48 Sep 2017 #30

We definitely do. Lots of spittle flecked rage from them. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #75

This is so true. LisaM Sep 2017 #81

I don't even know why they think it will! Ninsianna Sep 2017 #110

Willful ignorance used to be the perview of the Right. ehrnst Sep 2017 #198

Yes, it's being a Democratic goal since at least FDR whathehell Sep 2017 #134

I think almost all of us are in favor of universal coverage. Single payer is just one way ... dawg Sep 2017 #32

No!!!!!!! Everyone here shares the same core values about healthcare. emulatorloo Sep 2017 #33

I am surprised to find any resistance to this idea Generic Other Sep 2017 #35

I'm guessing some of the resistance is based on selfishness or ignorance. LonePirate Sep 2017 #61

That's a bit unfair, since we don't know what this will cost or how anyone is Ninsianna Sep 2017 #148

So anyone who points out that the numbers in M4A don't add up as stated is either ehrnst Sep 2017 #191

after 15+ years here, not surprised even a little bit. KG Sep 2017 #37

Not me. Have been for S-Payer since 1980, will probably be for it in 2028. Hoyt Sep 2017 #38

Medicare for all is not "single payer." It's an insurance program. Like the ACA. ucrdem Sep 2017 #39

LOL! Sorry... being realistic and truthful does not correlate to HOPING for the predicted outcome. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #40

Iam so sorry about your friend, Spent 48 brutal weeks in 2004 fighting "C" ... Old Vet Sep 2017 #46

Thank you... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #65

You are correct, The poison I injected into my body to kill another to this day.......... Old Vet Sep 2017 #68

There are times I might want to purchase something moda253 Sep 2017 #47

The Regan Democrat contingent. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #48

few more folks than just that dembotoz Sep 2017 #49

There are no "Reagan Democrats" on DU. Everyone is Progressive or Left Liberal. emulatorloo Sep 2017 #53

Yes... LovingA2andMI Sep 2017 #51

Nope Maven Sep 2017 #52

Given that when Sanders proposed this during the primaries mythology Sep 2017 #54

i just wanted more meat on the bone before i got all gaga over it.. samnsara Sep 2017 #55

how is it going to be paid for- 10% out of everyone's paycheck in the country snooper2 Sep 2017 #56

Don't forget the end of private insurance costs being subtracted from every paycheck. LonePirate Sep 2017 #60

I'm not hoping for failure NastyRiffraff Sep 2017 #57

How can it fail if it won't pass ? JI7 Sep 2017 #58

Yes. Just like the GOP was fine with "Romneycare" in Mass. TexasBushwhacker Sep 2017 #62

I actually hope single payer gets offered. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #64

Either you're part of the solution or you're part of the problem. ZX86 Sep 2017 #66

Nope... Blue_Tires Sep 2017 #71

We're not going to flip congress by being mealy mouthed. ZX86 Sep 2017 #72

It doesn't matter how bold or ballsy you are Blue_Tires Sep 2017 #163

A lot of us were making this push back then. Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #116

Not enough... Blue_Tires Sep 2017 #164

I'm all for it. lunatica Sep 2017 #73

Yep. And it's quite obvious who the naysayers are, based off of certain animus. TheBlackAdder Sep 2017 #74

Just about all of us are for a plan that will work and can get passed. I haven't seen one yet. George II Sep 2017 #76

Democrats have a bold new plan for universal single payer health care. ZX86 Sep 2017 #79

"Bold new plan"? Which on is that? John Conyers' plan? George II Sep 2017 #85

That's one of them. ZX86 Sep 2017 #86

The plan is not bold, nor is it new. No need to be rude. MADem Sep 2017 #87

The statement stands. ZX86 Sep 2017 #88

I shoulda voted to hide, I guess. MADem Sep 2017 #92

Because if anyone disagrees with you on what will actually get to ehrnst Sep 2017 #199

Posts like this is why I have missed your voice here MADem. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #111

I pop in on occasion, but right now, the fight isn't Single Payer That Will NOT HAPPEN MADem Sep 2017 #216

Common sense and logic. Much needed here right now. ehrnst Sep 2017 #200

Well, it's "lead, follow, or get out of the way", and on various progressive issues over the years.. George II Sep 2017 #94

There are berni_mccoy Sep 2017 #78

Not at all, it wont even be voted on, so dont worry about it. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #80

Yup LyndaG Sep 2017 #99

...Booker, Warren, Gillibrand, Harris, and Franken don't know what they're doing? Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #117

You have some reason to believe they are healthcare delivery experts? I don't. stevenleser Sep 2017 #139

It's well past time to move the conversation over to Single Payer, and that's what they're helping Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #140

That's because some here seem to want to ignore both lessons learned from ACA and want to ignore stevenleser Sep 2017 #142

I think that's a great conversation, actually, Steven. Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #143

And there is something else too that I feel very strongly about. I suspect dual tier is better stevenleser Sep 2017 #144

Given the nature of the American psyche Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #145

Absolutely agree with you on this. davsand Sep 2017 #209

They do, they also know this isn't going to make it to the floor and they see Ninsianna Sep 2017 #146

The bill forced them to take a position, they know the bill wont be voted on let alone passed Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #154

It's the old pragmatists vs the idealist. It is easy to say you are for wasupaloopa Sep 2017 #82

I support it, provided.... Adrahil Sep 2017 #83

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #84

Yes, And The Reason Is Obvious ProfessorGAC Sep 2017 #91

Yes, absolutely Bradical79 Sep 2017 #98

DA! Eko Sep 2017 #100

I'm for universal healthcare DesertRat Sep 2017 #101

er no. And there are excellent replies in this thread explaining why this perception is wrong. JHan Sep 2017 #103

sure, or people can just use their eyes. Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #114

up to them really .. *shrug* JHan Sep 2017 #119

No, actually, they won't. Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #120

mmmhmm JHan Sep 2017 #122

"Ever seen a shirt make a phone call?" Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #123

I want to know exactly what is proposed radical noodle Sep 2017 #105

No, the John Conyers version in the House is fine. Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #112

to be fair, its fine because it is hardly talked about. nt JCanete Sep 2017 #159

I've been for it since Conyers started proposing it! JNelson6563 Sep 2017 #113

Seems the answer is almost unanimous. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #118

The answer is no. People want Universal Health Care, and refusing ehrnst Sep 2017 #196

I think some would prefer not to see Hillary shanny Sep 2017 #124

Yes. And it's obvious why because it's Bernies proposal riderinthestorm Sep 2017 #126

I fully support it. Snackshack Sep 2017 #128

I have some concerns. TomSlick Sep 2017 #129

The moment Hillary came out against it, the tone of this forum changed for the worse LittleBlue Sep 2017 #135

It was more Bernie's answer to its failure in Vermont. LuvLoogie Sep 2017 #158

It fails in every state because states can't raise the tax revenue per capita LittleBlue Sep 2017 #169

I want universal care...but I want the ACA to survive...and this bill helps the GOP kill it. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #168

Healthcare companies employs over 12 million people across the US Calista241 Sep 2017 #136

I'm hoping that the demand for it doesn't hurt chances for Universal Health Care ehrnst Sep 2017 #149

Are some on DU trying to start a flame war? ehrnst Sep 2017 #157

The problem is getting the GOP to bring it up for a vote BainsBane Sep 2017 #160

kicked and recommended for your comment. JHan Sep 2017 #165

I think they are and boy will they be sorry when the outcome is nothing...no healthcare Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #166

If you are referring to the Sander's bill...it won't fail because it Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #173

I'm not hoping it fails; I know it will fail. Chemisse Sep 2017 #176

Some on DU will always want our side to fail IronLionZion Sep 2017 #177

Medicare for all does cover mental health and substance abuse treatment services HarmonyRockets Sep 2017 #219

The DUers who have a deeply negative defeatist attitude towards all this IronLionZion Sep 2017 #221

Not hoping that it fails Trumpocalypse Sep 2017 #187

we gotta start with the propagandistic "socialized medicine" of the past. There are still CTyankee Sep 2017 #189

Hoping it fails? That's a stupid question. Starry Messenger Sep 2017 #197

Not as many as are here hoping for the ACA to fail. We all know why. LuvLoogie Sep 2017 #201

I don't think ANYONE on this site wants the ACA to fail... Raster Sep 2017 #203

Because Bernie introduced it and anything associated with Bernie will be rejected. Joe941 Sep 2017 #215

Really? ananda Sep 2017 #218

It needs funding machinist included. Adrahil Sep 2017 #220