General Discussion

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)

84. Again, I was not discussing gun control laws per se...

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:25 PM

Jul 2012

...only pointing out that logically, if one is making the argument. that "Well, criminals won't obey the law anyway" -- then by that token, it is futile to make any laws at all. Note: that is the argument being made by the poster I responded to

Now addressing your point: one could certainly argue that assault weapons (however they are defined -- I am not an expert in this area, but bear with me) are harmful; therefore, they should be outlawed outside of military uses; therefore, it is appropriate to make laws concerning them and lay out appropriate punishments for those who violate said laws.

BTW, I never made the argument that any law can inherently prevent someone from doing something. So I'm not seeing where your disagreement is with what I said.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

216 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Expired Assault Weapons Ban Would Have Covered Rifle Used In Colorado Shooting [View all] ProSense Jul 2012 OP

high-capacity 'clips' (magazines) were not 'banned', you could always buy them... PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #1

From the ProSense Jul 2012 #2

they weren't sold illegally belcffub Jul 2012 #4

Thanks for pointing that out. n/t ProSense Jul 2012 #11

In fact, that wasn't even the extent of the truth. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #201

It was perfectly legal to sell high-capacity magazines that were manufactured before the 'ban'... PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #7

and that is a key point HankyDub Jul 2012 #59

Rachel Madow made the same mistakes when reporting on the AWB... aikoaiko Jul 2012 #108

Yep, gun manufacturers and those coveting such guns took advantage of the "loopholes". Sounds like Hoyt Jul 2012 #138

It was a stupid law and manufacturers complied with the stupidity. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #158

It's also worth pointing out that the AR-15 was never banned. sofa king Jul 2012 #117

The legal/illegal versions michreject Jul 2012 #191

Thus illustrating just how idiotic the AWB really was. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #193

The mag on the illegal one would be illegal michreject Jul 2012 #196

Do they make them in 6.8 SPC? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #197

No michreject Jul 2012 #203

Aw. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #207

Good reason to buy one in 5.56 michreject Jul 2012 #208

Right. This entire original post is simply incorrect. nt naaman fletcher Jul 2012 #194

The headline, at least, is simply incorrect. sofa king Jul 2012 #195

new rks306 Jul 2012 #186

What in the world is a "multi-clip"? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #187

It's the new gun control buzz word. permatex Jul 2012 #210

If you want to assume that a mass killer would have respected the gun laws, then perhaps bluestateguy Jul 2012 #3

Without getting into the specifics of gun control legislation... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #35

Not at all. Most people simply don't understand the purpose of laws. PavePusher Jul 2012 #56

Again, I was not discussing gun control laws per se... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #84

the *effect* of laws is to reduce access to the items made illegal DBoon Jul 2012 #161

the *effect* of laws is to reduce access to the items made illegal Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #202

Illegal items are more difficult to procure and more expensive DBoon Jul 2012 #150

Want to buy a Rolex? sofa king Jul 2012 #216

Just because someone is a mass killer doesn't mean we should allow them to legally buy weapons TNLib Jul 2012 #164

There was and is no proof he is mentally ill obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #172

Yes there is. Nostradammit Jul 2012 #185

YAY, let's promote Republican ideals! Tejas Jul 2012 #5

Simply false. The AWB was passed by a Democratic Congress and signed into law apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #8

Oh, in that case, YAY, let's lose everything this November! Tejas Jul 2012 #14

Your concession that you posted false information in the reply above is noted, apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #16

That an AWB is a Republican ideal is not false, I posted links to their website. Tejas Jul 2012 #26

It is false: the AWB was a progressive ideal, passed by a Democratic Congress apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #30

I'm speaking of the current call for an AWB. Tejas Jul 2012 #37

No, you weren't, but even if you had been that assertion is false, also. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #39

"renewal" - thank you for admitting this is current affairs. Tejas Jul 2012 #50

As no one ever denied it, your reply is once again non-responsive & irrelevant. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #52

so why did Republicans vote for it? gejohnston Jul 2012 #136

Once again: the AWB was passed by a Democratic Congress, and signed into law apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #139

It was a "progressive ideal." Because it was signed by Clinton? It was a progressive as NAFTA. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #44

Proposed by liberal Democrats in Congress; passed by a Democratic Congress; signed apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #48

If you want to feel sorry, you can feel sorry for not being able to distinguish liberals and AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #62

Like I said above, sorry you don't seem to like progressives or liberals much, apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #65

Do you have a comprehension problem? You are repeating yourself, unnecessarily so. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #66

Ahhh, now the "comprehension" card emerges, in lieu of saying anything on point. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #68

My words mean exactly what they said. They were exactly on point. If you don't understand, AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #78

They were not on point and, hence, there is no need to "re-read" them. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #81

The NRA supports an AWB? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #96

Who told you that? I hope they don't really think you're that stupid. Tejas Jul 2012 #209

The 'Individual Mandate' is RW policy passed by'dems'. It happens. DLC=GOP Edweird Jul 2012 #47

Well let's finish the thought here nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #31

Let's also get a clue, you ever heard of Harry Reid? Tejas Jul 2012 #87

Yup, and your point nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #95

My point is to give you a clue that all Dems do not look at NRA as the plague. Tejas Jul 2012 #100

We know that, and again your point? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #103

So, the Bradyes support the AWB Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #206

Actually that is his contention nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #215

The $1,000,000 free money they get MIGHT be a clue? Tejas Jul 2012 #212

The NRA *overwhelmingly* contributes money and resources to defeat Democrats apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #127

Some Democrats have actually rated very high on the NRA's scale DBoon Jul 2012 #153

Yes, and water is wet (you DO know who Harry Reid is don't you???) Tejas Jul 2012 #174

Remind me who runs the NRA again? HankyDub Jul 2012 #85

Remind me of why I should care? Tejas Jul 2012 #89

Because when you're pushing bullshit HankyDub Jul 2012 #90

No need to deceive, Jim Brady IS (not "was") an R. Tejas Jul 2012 #91

Sarah Palin is for an AWB too? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #98

Sarah Brady, Jims wife rl6214 Jul 2012 #113

The campaign is named after a Republican who spent the better part of his life in a wheelchair... Hippo_Tron Jul 2012 #99

as to the rest of the Repubs on the company roster? Tejas Jul 2012 #102

False, again. Per usual. The vast majority of board members are progressive Democrats. n/t. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #126

Oh, like Helmke the Republican Mayor? Tejas Jul 2012 #163

Your point was obliterated by the logical fact that Brady has a reason to be for gun control Demit Jul 2012 #144

Republican wimpy do-gooders CynicalOtto Jul 2012 #119

You sure don't seem like a Democrat brentspeak Jul 2012 #205

And a Ruger Mini-14 wasn't. A superior weapon that fires the same round. No points for you. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #6

Right ProSense Jul 2012 #9

Clearly I do. You're the one trying to score political points from this. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #17

Oh, bullshit ProSense Jul 2012 #20

Right back atcha. Re-read your title and tell me again that you didn't write this to score points Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #34

Wait ProSense Jul 2012 #40

But you put it up here. Are you now saying that you disagree with it? Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #49

Yes, ProSense Jul 2012 #54

It was intended to be silly. The point remains that the ban would have had no effect Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #70

"superior weapon" went right over his head Tejas Jul 2012 #104

The AR15 could not have "remained" illegal because it was NOT illegal rl6214 Jul 2012 #114

I took the OP's word that the Colt was on the list. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #115

Yes, we do know more. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #183

So, the death and maiming by gunfire of scores of people is a game to you, is it? apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #12

I'm not the one trying to score political poo-flinging points from another tragedy. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #15

Commenting on the insanity that is America's lack of effective gun control laws apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #22

Your prejudice is showing. What America lacks is a sane social structure and explicit contract. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #41

My "prejudice" against tens of thousands of needless deaths every year apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #46

Yes, this guy was clearly concerned with obeying the law. Again, you cling to a fantasy Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #58

You "cling" to the fantasy that more effective gun control laws don't work. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #63

You should go see Bowling for Columbine again. Michael Moore does a good job of addressing the Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #73

Yada-yada-yada. Whatever: when you decide to post something on point, get back with me. n/t. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #74

So you have nothing, as usual. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #79

Nope: you just haven't bothered to reply to it with anything substantive. As usual. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #82

You're the one that jumped in with your dissembling and assignation of motivations Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #101

Nope: sorry you missed my original reply. I'll re-post it here for your perusal: apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #105

Shall we repeat the entire sub-thread. The expressed opinion still misses Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #116

Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #124

I am curious about your ideas on effective gun controls. Please be specific and detailed. johnnytoobad Jul 2012 #181

The "points" meme comes from a certain jackass that posts in the Gungeon. Tejas Jul 2012 #18

Oh, so it's a Gungeon "game." Haven't been down there in a while. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #19

The troll that invented the system is proud. Tejas Jul 2012 #28

Uh-huh. Riiiiiiggghht... apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #42

Stop by the Gungeon, it's there for all to see. Tejas Jul 2012 #51

Nope, it's not. But it's cute to pretend, I guess. n/t. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #57

lets go down the list, shall we? beevul Jul 2012 #121

Nope: it doesn't clear anything up, except your ability to post pointless links. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #131

Thats ok, its there for those with an open mind... beevul Jul 2012 #179

This TEC-9 trumps your Mini-14 Tejas Jul 2012 #55

But an AK-47 trumps everything Tejas Jul 2012 #60

Manufacture of normal capacity magazines was banned under the late (unlamented) AWB, Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #10

"He had a high-capacity clip, which were banned as 'large capacity ammunition feeding devices' "? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #23

A search through the Brownells online catalog shows that it doesn't sell any clips. Only magazines. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #33

That's what I say. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #38

That's a 100 round Beta-C magazine. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #88

The ban expired in 2004. Millions of normal capacity magazines have been manufactured since. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #25

Some people seem to think that there is a difference between clips and magazines. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #36

Well...there is a difference, as your link points out. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #45

Did you see the word "If"? It's there. Manufacturers decide the limits to place upon stipper clips AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #53

While I'll grant that there's a practical limit to the size of a stripper clip, I was speaking of a Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #67

There is also 2-round stripper clip which is sometimes used for NRA matches (8 & 2 to mimic a M1) AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #77

The 100 round circular magazine was what allowed Holmes to shoot so many people so quickly. Major Hogwash Jul 2012 #21

C-Mags have been around long before the AWB NickB79 Jul 2012 #64

Germans used C-mags for their MG-42s during WWII Kaleva Jul 2012 #204

Which is relatively meaningless. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #24

Quit it. That is logical fact reasoning and not acceptable here! RegieRocker Jul 2012 #32

And it probably wouldn't have stopped this nutcase from getting one. WillowTree Jul 2012 #27

That is true, but would he still have had one? Rex Jul 2012 #43

Bad reporting. Millions of AR-15's were made and sold during the AWB NickB79 Jul 2012 #61

Oh. but no! There is no such thing as an "assault weapon" Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #69

True. Congress tried to define it. Assault RIFLE is a real thing. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #80

Exactly obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #159

Thank you. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #83

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #71

zacks a dumbass if he believes what he wrote. ileus Jul 2012 #72

OH NO, did it have a bayonet lug, flash suppressor and a pistol grip?! THE HORROR AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #76

Such a red herring. Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #86

And this would have mattered.. sendero Jul 2012 #92

I know ProSense Jul 2012 #93

And while we are at it.. sendero Jul 2012 #94

I know ProSense Jul 2012 #97

Gun Ban ? That's crazy clint55 Jul 2012 #106

When something happens this sudden and fast, in the dark, with tear gas... arcane1 Jul 2012 #107

Amurikans don't want no god-damned legislation banning their semi-automatic indepat Jul 2012 #109

This is absolutely untrue. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #110

He could have used one of these krispos42 Jul 2012 #111

Neither the AR15 nor the high-capacity (clip) magazine were banned under the 94 AWB rl6214 Jul 2012 #112

Comon Sense CynicalOtto Jul 2012 #118

What kind of surprised me was the 6,000 rounds. Seems that would have triggered some interest. freshwest Jul 2012 #120

and he supposedly bought his ammo over the internet! DBoon Jul 2012 #155

Whoa, that adds a new dimension to the case. It makes oversight by state laws or vendorsirrelevant. freshwest Jul 2012 #169

What's to stop him from buying a different gun? JonLP24 Jul 2012 #122

He could have bought an AR-15 anyway, just without a couple features that had no bearing on the atta AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #182

Another Update DallasNE Jul 2012 #123

I would like to give DallasNE some recognition for an amazing mish-mash of incorrect information slackmaster Jul 2012 #125

Thanks Slackmaster! It amazes me the crap people pull out concerning guns. n-t Logical Jul 2012 #128

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #130

Openly mocking actual progressive DU members with a Freeper talking point, i.e., apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #134

You missed my point. There are posters who feign ignorance on DU in order to make DU look stupid. slackmaster Jul 2012 #142

I agree. Where are the rational arguments? n-t Logical Jul 2012 #137

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #133

The expired "assault weapons ban" was not the Brady Law slackmaster Jul 2012 #140

My Post Was On Ammo DallasNE Jul 2012 #152

And it was WRONG in every respect on ammo slackmaster Jul 2012 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author permatex Jul 2012 #162

Armor piercing ammo is perfectly legal to buy over the internet. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #165

My bad permatex Jul 2012 #168

I have not read any "cop killer ammo" was used obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #167

As defined by gun grabbers, all .223 is "cop killer ammo", Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #176

Hey clueless, read closer..... Logical Jul 2012 #141

Who's Clueless - My Post Was On Ammo DallasNE Jul 2012 #154

No. gejohnston Jul 2012 #143

You really need to stop and research before you post permatex Jul 2012 #145

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #160

You said that the ammo he used was banned under the Brady law that bush let expire permatex Jul 2012 #166

There is no reason to personally attack anyone like that obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #171

Two different laws. atreides1 Jul 2012 #148

You sound about as clueless as this congresswoman permatex Jul 2012 #151

I give Carolyn McCarthy a pass, because of her son and husband obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #170

If she weren't in a position to craft laws permatex Jul 2012 #173

I understand your POV, so we will have to agree to disagree on this obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #178

There is no such thing JeepJK556 Jul 2012 #129

Come on, we all know that there are now micro-chips inserted into bullets GarroHorus Jul 2012 #135

I have a friend that works at the gun counter in a Cabelas store, he said the doc03 Jul 2012 #132

What idiot told you Obama is going to ban the most popular-selling longarm in US history? Tejas Jul 2012 #147

That was just sarcasm, don't you know the NRA has been pushing that doc03 Jul 2012 #149

Sorry, 95% of gunowners do NOT belong to the NRA. Tejas Jul 2012 #157

The Sickest Day elbloggoZY27 Jul 2012 #146

I doubt the USA is the most violent nation in the world obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #175

We're not even it the top 10 permatex Jul 2012 #177

5.56 or .223 ammo is the reason more did not die chapel hill dem Jul 2012 #180

If I've gotta get shot by something, I'm definitely going to opt for .223 over anythign .30 cal. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #184

The fact is that these rules were never really enforced rudycantfail Jul 2012 #188

How were they not enforced? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #189

People who wanted to get assault weapons rudycantfail Jul 2012 #190

That's because the Assault Weapons Ban didn't make it illegal to purchase assault weapons. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #192

Point made and taken rudycantfail Jul 2012 #198

It was a stupid law then and it would be a stupid law now. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #199

Again, I want a law to do what this law claimed it would do - ban assault weapons. rudycantfail Jul 2012 #213

We'll have to agree to disagree on the need for such a law. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #214

So, were you going to update the title and contents of your post with the truth, or what? AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #200

Colt simply changed the name and modified the gun in order to continue selling the AR-15 Kaleva Jul 2012 #211