General Discussion

chapel hill dem

(228 posts)

180. 5.56 or .223 ammo is the reason more did not die

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:54 PM

Jul 2012

The AR-15/M-16 was put into service during the Viet Nam war as a replacement of the M-1/M-14 rifles. The ammo for the M-16 (5.56 mm or .223 caliber) is much smaller than the .30 caliber rounds used by the earlier guns. Roughly, three M-16 rounds weigh as much as one M-14 round.

The smaller ammunition was designed to horrifically wound, but not instantly kill the enemy. This is important since a wounded soldier takes another two soldiers/medics to treat and diminishes the enemy's force. A clean kill is ignored by the enemy, but a screaming soldier demands attention. If the enemy declines to treat the wounded soldier, or shoots the wounded soldier, it demoralizes the other enemy soldiers.

If the Aurora shooter had used an AK-47 (7.62 mm), then more people would have died instantly.

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Expired Assault Weapons Ban Would Have Covered Rifle Used In Colorado Shooting [View all] ProSense Jul 2012 OP

high-capacity 'clips' (magazines) were not 'banned', you could always buy them... PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #1

From the ProSense Jul 2012 #2

they weren't sold illegally belcffub Jul 2012 #4

Thanks for pointing that out. n/t ProSense Jul 2012 #11

In fact, that wasn't even the extent of the truth. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #201

It was perfectly legal to sell high-capacity magazines that were manufactured before the 'ban'... PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #7

and that is a key point HankyDub Jul 2012 #59

Rachel Madow made the same mistakes when reporting on the AWB... aikoaiko Jul 2012 #108

Yep, gun manufacturers and those coveting such guns took advantage of the "loopholes". Sounds like Hoyt Jul 2012 #138

It was a stupid law and manufacturers complied with the stupidity. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #158

It's also worth pointing out that the AR-15 was never banned. sofa king Jul 2012 #117

The legal/illegal versions michreject Jul 2012 #191

Thus illustrating just how idiotic the AWB really was. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #193

The mag on the illegal one would be illegal michreject Jul 2012 #196

Do they make them in 6.8 SPC? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #197

No michreject Jul 2012 #203

Aw. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #207

Good reason to buy one in 5.56 michreject Jul 2012 #208

Right. This entire original post is simply incorrect. nt naaman fletcher Jul 2012 #194

The headline, at least, is simply incorrect. sofa king Jul 2012 #195

new rks306 Jul 2012 #186

What in the world is a "multi-clip"? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #187

It's the new gun control buzz word. permatex Jul 2012 #210

If you want to assume that a mass killer would have respected the gun laws, then perhaps bluestateguy Jul 2012 #3

Without getting into the specifics of gun control legislation... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #35

Not at all. Most people simply don't understand the purpose of laws. PavePusher Jul 2012 #56

Again, I was not discussing gun control laws per se... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #84

the *effect* of laws is to reduce access to the items made illegal DBoon Jul 2012 #161

the *effect* of laws is to reduce access to the items made illegal Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #202

Illegal items are more difficult to procure and more expensive DBoon Jul 2012 #150

Want to buy a Rolex? sofa king Jul 2012 #216

Just because someone is a mass killer doesn't mean we should allow them to legally buy weapons TNLib Jul 2012 #164

There was and is no proof he is mentally ill obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #172

Yes there is. Nostradammit Jul 2012 #185

YAY, let's promote Republican ideals! Tejas Jul 2012 #5

Simply false. The AWB was passed by a Democratic Congress and signed into law apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #8

Oh, in that case, YAY, let's lose everything this November! Tejas Jul 2012 #14

Your concession that you posted false information in the reply above is noted, apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #16

That an AWB is a Republican ideal is not false, I posted links to their website. Tejas Jul 2012 #26

It is false: the AWB was a progressive ideal, passed by a Democratic Congress apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #30

I'm speaking of the current call for an AWB. Tejas Jul 2012 #37

No, you weren't, but even if you had been that assertion is false, also. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #39

"renewal" - thank you for admitting this is current affairs. Tejas Jul 2012 #50

As no one ever denied it, your reply is once again non-responsive & irrelevant. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #52

so why did Republicans vote for it? gejohnston Jul 2012 #136

Once again: the AWB was passed by a Democratic Congress, and signed into law apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #139

It was a "progressive ideal." Because it was signed by Clinton? It was a progressive as NAFTA. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #44

Proposed by liberal Democrats in Congress; passed by a Democratic Congress; signed apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #48

If you want to feel sorry, you can feel sorry for not being able to distinguish liberals and AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #62

Like I said above, sorry you don't seem to like progressives or liberals much, apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #65

Do you have a comprehension problem? You are repeating yourself, unnecessarily so. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #66

Ahhh, now the "comprehension" card emerges, in lieu of saying anything on point. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #68

My words mean exactly what they said. They were exactly on point. If you don't understand, AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #78

They were not on point and, hence, there is no need to "re-read" them. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #81

The NRA supports an AWB? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #96

Who told you that? I hope they don't really think you're that stupid. Tejas Jul 2012 #209

The 'Individual Mandate' is RW policy passed by'dems'. It happens. DLC=GOP Edweird Jul 2012 #47

Well let's finish the thought here nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #31

Let's also get a clue, you ever heard of Harry Reid? Tejas Jul 2012 #87

Yup, and your point nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #95

My point is to give you a clue that all Dems do not look at NRA as the plague. Tejas Jul 2012 #100

We know that, and again your point? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #103

So, the Bradyes support the AWB Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #206

Actually that is his contention nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #215

The $1,000,000 free money they get MIGHT be a clue? Tejas Jul 2012 #212

The NRA *overwhelmingly* contributes money and resources to defeat Democrats apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #127

Some Democrats have actually rated very high on the NRA's scale DBoon Jul 2012 #153

Yes, and water is wet (you DO know who Harry Reid is don't you???) Tejas Jul 2012 #174

Remind me who runs the NRA again? HankyDub Jul 2012 #85

Remind me of why I should care? Tejas Jul 2012 #89

Because when you're pushing bullshit HankyDub Jul 2012 #90

No need to deceive, Jim Brady IS (not "was") an R. Tejas Jul 2012 #91

Sarah Palin is for an AWB too? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #98

Sarah Brady, Jims wife rl6214 Jul 2012 #113

The campaign is named after a Republican who spent the better part of his life in a wheelchair... Hippo_Tron Jul 2012 #99

as to the rest of the Repubs on the company roster? Tejas Jul 2012 #102

False, again. Per usual. The vast majority of board members are progressive Democrats. n/t. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #126

Oh, like Helmke the Republican Mayor? Tejas Jul 2012 #163

Your point was obliterated by the logical fact that Brady has a reason to be for gun control Demit Jul 2012 #144

Republican wimpy do-gooders CynicalOtto Jul 2012 #119

You sure don't seem like a Democrat brentspeak Jul 2012 #205

And a Ruger Mini-14 wasn't. A superior weapon that fires the same round. No points for you. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #6

Right ProSense Jul 2012 #9

Clearly I do. You're the one trying to score political points from this. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #17

Oh, bullshit ProSense Jul 2012 #20

Right back atcha. Re-read your title and tell me again that you didn't write this to score points Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #34

Wait ProSense Jul 2012 #40

But you put it up here. Are you now saying that you disagree with it? Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #49

Yes, ProSense Jul 2012 #54

It was intended to be silly. The point remains that the ban would have had no effect Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #70

"superior weapon" went right over his head Tejas Jul 2012 #104

The AR15 could not have "remained" illegal because it was NOT illegal rl6214 Jul 2012 #114

I took the OP's word that the Colt was on the list. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #115

Yes, we do know more. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #183

So, the death and maiming by gunfire of scores of people is a game to you, is it? apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #12

I'm not the one trying to score political poo-flinging points from another tragedy. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #15

Commenting on the insanity that is America's lack of effective gun control laws apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #22

Your prejudice is showing. What America lacks is a sane social structure and explicit contract. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #41

My "prejudice" against tens of thousands of needless deaths every year apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #46

Yes, this guy was clearly concerned with obeying the law. Again, you cling to a fantasy Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #58

You "cling" to the fantasy that more effective gun control laws don't work. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #63

You should go see Bowling for Columbine again. Michael Moore does a good job of addressing the Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #73

Yada-yada-yada. Whatever: when you decide to post something on point, get back with me. n/t. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #74

So you have nothing, as usual. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #79

Nope: you just haven't bothered to reply to it with anything substantive. As usual. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #82

You're the one that jumped in with your dissembling and assignation of motivations Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #101

Nope: sorry you missed my original reply. I'll re-post it here for your perusal: apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #105

Shall we repeat the entire sub-thread. The expressed opinion still misses Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #116

Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #124

I am curious about your ideas on effective gun controls. Please be specific and detailed. johnnytoobad Jul 2012 #181

The "points" meme comes from a certain jackass that posts in the Gungeon. Tejas Jul 2012 #18

Oh, so it's a Gungeon "game." Haven't been down there in a while. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #19

The troll that invented the system is proud. Tejas Jul 2012 #28

Uh-huh. Riiiiiiggghht... apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #42

Stop by the Gungeon, it's there for all to see. Tejas Jul 2012 #51

Nope, it's not. But it's cute to pretend, I guess. n/t. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #57

lets go down the list, shall we? beevul Jul 2012 #121

Nope: it doesn't clear anything up, except your ability to post pointless links. apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #131

Thats ok, its there for those with an open mind... beevul Jul 2012 #179

This TEC-9 trumps your Mini-14 Tejas Jul 2012 #55

But an AK-47 trumps everything Tejas Jul 2012 #60

Manufacture of normal capacity magazines was banned under the late (unlamented) AWB, Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #10

"He had a high-capacity clip, which were banned as 'large capacity ammunition feeding devices' "? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #23

A search through the Brownells online catalog shows that it doesn't sell any clips. Only magazines. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #33

That's what I say. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #38

That's a 100 round Beta-C magazine. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #88

The ban expired in 2004. Millions of normal capacity magazines have been manufactured since. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #25

Some people seem to think that there is a difference between clips and magazines. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #36

Well...there is a difference, as your link points out. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #45

Did you see the word "If"? It's there. Manufacturers decide the limits to place upon stipper clips AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #53

While I'll grant that there's a practical limit to the size of a stripper clip, I was speaking of a Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #67

There is also 2-round stripper clip which is sometimes used for NRA matches (8 & 2 to mimic a M1) AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #77

The 100 round circular magazine was what allowed Holmes to shoot so many people so quickly. Major Hogwash Jul 2012 #21

C-Mags have been around long before the AWB NickB79 Jul 2012 #64

Germans used C-mags for their MG-42s during WWII Kaleva Jul 2012 #204

Which is relatively meaningless. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #24

Quit it. That is logical fact reasoning and not acceptable here! RegieRocker Jul 2012 #32

And it probably wouldn't have stopped this nutcase from getting one. WillowTree Jul 2012 #27

That is true, but would he still have had one? Rex Jul 2012 #43

Bad reporting. Millions of AR-15's were made and sold during the AWB NickB79 Jul 2012 #61

Oh. but no! There is no such thing as an "assault weapon" Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #69

True. Congress tried to define it. Assault RIFLE is a real thing. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #80

Exactly obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #159

Thank you. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #83

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #71

zacks a dumbass if he believes what he wrote. ileus Jul 2012 #72

OH NO, did it have a bayonet lug, flash suppressor and a pistol grip?! THE HORROR AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #76

Such a red herring. Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #86

And this would have mattered.. sendero Jul 2012 #92

I know ProSense Jul 2012 #93

And while we are at it.. sendero Jul 2012 #94

I know ProSense Jul 2012 #97

Gun Ban ? That's crazy clint55 Jul 2012 #106

When something happens this sudden and fast, in the dark, with tear gas... arcane1 Jul 2012 #107

Amurikans don't want no god-damned legislation banning their semi-automatic indepat Jul 2012 #109

This is absolutely untrue. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #110

He could have used one of these krispos42 Jul 2012 #111

Neither the AR15 nor the high-capacity (clip) magazine were banned under the 94 AWB rl6214 Jul 2012 #112

Comon Sense CynicalOtto Jul 2012 #118

What kind of surprised me was the 6,000 rounds. Seems that would have triggered some interest. freshwest Jul 2012 #120

and he supposedly bought his ammo over the internet! DBoon Jul 2012 #155

Whoa, that adds a new dimension to the case. It makes oversight by state laws or vendorsirrelevant. freshwest Jul 2012 #169

What's to stop him from buying a different gun? JonLP24 Jul 2012 #122

He could have bought an AR-15 anyway, just without a couple features that had no bearing on the atta AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #182

Another Update DallasNE Jul 2012 #123

I would like to give DallasNE some recognition for an amazing mish-mash of incorrect information slackmaster Jul 2012 #125

Thanks Slackmaster! It amazes me the crap people pull out concerning guns. n-t Logical Jul 2012 #128

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #130

Openly mocking actual progressive DU members with a Freeper talking point, i.e., apocalypsehow Jul 2012 #134

You missed my point. There are posters who feign ignorance on DU in order to make DU look stupid. slackmaster Jul 2012 #142

I agree. Where are the rational arguments? n-t Logical Jul 2012 #137

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #133

The expired "assault weapons ban" was not the Brady Law slackmaster Jul 2012 #140

My Post Was On Ammo DallasNE Jul 2012 #152

And it was WRONG in every respect on ammo slackmaster Jul 2012 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author permatex Jul 2012 #162

Armor piercing ammo is perfectly legal to buy over the internet. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #165

My bad permatex Jul 2012 #168

I have not read any "cop killer ammo" was used obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #167

As defined by gun grabbers, all .223 is "cop killer ammo", Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #176

Hey clueless, read closer..... Logical Jul 2012 #141

Who's Clueless - My Post Was On Ammo DallasNE Jul 2012 #154

No. gejohnston Jul 2012 #143

You really need to stop and research before you post permatex Jul 2012 #145

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #160

You said that the ammo he used was banned under the Brady law that bush let expire permatex Jul 2012 #166

There is no reason to personally attack anyone like that obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #171

Two different laws. atreides1 Jul 2012 #148

You sound about as clueless as this congresswoman permatex Jul 2012 #151

I give Carolyn McCarthy a pass, because of her son and husband obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #170

If she weren't in a position to craft laws permatex Jul 2012 #173

I understand your POV, so we will have to agree to disagree on this obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #178

There is no such thing JeepJK556 Jul 2012 #129

Come on, we all know that there are now micro-chips inserted into bullets GarroHorus Jul 2012 #135

I have a friend that works at the gun counter in a Cabelas store, he said the doc03 Jul 2012 #132

What idiot told you Obama is going to ban the most popular-selling longarm in US history? Tejas Jul 2012 #147

That was just sarcasm, don't you know the NRA has been pushing that doc03 Jul 2012 #149

Sorry, 95% of gunowners do NOT belong to the NRA. Tejas Jul 2012 #157

The Sickest Day elbloggoZY27 Jul 2012 #146

I doubt the USA is the most violent nation in the world obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #175

We're not even it the top 10 permatex Jul 2012 #177

5.56 or .223 ammo is the reason more did not die chapel hill dem Jul 2012 #180

If I've gotta get shot by something, I'm definitely going to opt for .223 over anythign .30 cal. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #184

The fact is that these rules were never really enforced rudycantfail Jul 2012 #188

How were they not enforced? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #189

People who wanted to get assault weapons rudycantfail Jul 2012 #190

That's because the Assault Weapons Ban didn't make it illegal to purchase assault weapons. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #192

Point made and taken rudycantfail Jul 2012 #198

It was a stupid law then and it would be a stupid law now. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #199

Again, I want a law to do what this law claimed it would do - ban assault weapons. rudycantfail Jul 2012 #213

We'll have to agree to disagree on the need for such a law. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #214

So, were you going to update the title and contents of your post with the truth, or what? AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #200

Colt simply changed the name and modified the gun in order to continue selling the AR-15 Kaleva Jul 2012 #211