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felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)

91. Standing strong against the Military industrial complex is far braver than going along with it

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:54 PM

Aug 2015

-as we all know the risks. This elephant in the room has conditioned Americans by using the terrorism of violence against all our peaceful leaders since JFK, MLK and Wellstone, or character assassinated like Carter was during the Iranian crisis, or Kucinich was while running for president.

The Peace Movement is made up of BRAVE people who STAND UP against the racist sociopathic conditioning to offer creative cooperative AND SAFER solutions for everyone. It takes brass balls we all have to refuse to fight each other and face down a militarized police. It takes bravery for two Black women to face Presidential candidates, and to have to live being scapegoated by this sickness infecting our country. And I have high respect for anyone who stood up against the Viet Nam War. I have respect also for young people who decide to serve in the military and police--it is these institutions that have grown corrupt, whose missions have crept steadily towards becoming the very terrorist they claim to be against.

I myself am proud of everyone standing against the rampant out of control militarized over-culture in its many forms.

We are all tired of being lied to. With the Earth changes upon us, the massive extinction of so much life, we don't have any more time left--there is so much work to do, so much pollution to clean up, as well as corruption to clean up.

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Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam: Campaign Confirms [View all] big_dog Aug 2015 OP

Someone who saw the invasion of Vietnam as the crime it was n/t arcane1 Aug 2015 #1

Unlike drone attacks? BainsBane Aug 2015 #53

I am not thrilled with his position on drones either, or Palestine, I suppose. Who is running randys1 Aug 2015 #55

There are a few issues BainsBane Aug 2015 #80

A good and thoughtful response. Thank you, Bainsbane. Koinos Aug 2015 #87

I am a fan of Bernie and would support Hillary, and today listening to Michaelangelo Signorile on XM randys1 Aug 2015 #102

I understand you don't do that Randy BainsBane Aug 2015 #110

TO be faiir to him he must have filled out his CO forms truthfully and said he only opposed randys1 Aug 2015 #112

What is his Palestinian position that you aren't thrilled with? oberliner Aug 2015 #164

This thread is about Vietnam n/t arcane1 Aug 2015 #64

You tell me: *are* they crimes? n/t Smarmie Doofus Aug 2015 #81

The criteria for conscientious objector was decided by the USSC. Justice Thurgood Marshall wrote 24601 Aug 2015 #86

You should cite the actual case, not the Wikipedia cite. Worse, Wikipedia cites an EDITED test. happyslug Sep 2015 #170

how can hillary expect someone to call into question his firmly held pacifism roguevalley Aug 2015 #90

As I recall, there was a problem for a lot of young men who opposed hedgehog Aug 2015 #2

The world's largest military hueymahl Aug 2015 #3

^^^^ MuseRider Aug 2015 #6

There is a reason Mr.Bill Aug 2015 #9

But we have elected 26 out of 44 that had military serivce. Historic NY Aug 2015 #68

And that's okay, if it's what the voters want. Mr.Bill Aug 2015 #79

+100%! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #128

Did you include W as one of the 26? Sanity Claws Aug 2015 #109

+1 nt Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #37

When did we stop being the Peace Keepers? tecelote Aug 2015 #83

At one time, "Peace" was considered to be such a good word, Art_from_Ark Aug 2015 #159

+100%! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #127

AMEN to that! John Poet Sep 2015 #174

He was straight up honest about it, unlike a certain AWOL* recent CinC* warmonger I can think of. Electric Monk Aug 2015 #4

means there won't be a drip drip drip 6chars Aug 2015 #12

This is also one reason why he openly calls himself a 'socialist' -- Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #46

I have wondered why he ever identified as a "socialist" if he did so without adding randys1 Aug 2015 #61

I think it's to undercut the inevitable red baiting. Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #72

Whose forces also got a certain television host fired for trying to report the truth on this too! cascadiance Aug 2015 #47

They go so far and beyond to discredit whoever gets in their way and truth is the biggest thing JonLP24 Sep 2015 #208

The strong and wrong vs weak and right problem Renew Deal Aug 2015 #5

That's a right-wing meme that you may want to help develop on FR Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #8

No it's not. It's from Bill Clinton Renew Deal Aug 2015 #24

OMG...like Bush?!? SoapBox Aug 2015 #32

Is Clinton wrong? Renew Deal Aug 2015 #38

I think that depends on your definition of weak, strong and wrong.... haikugal Aug 2015 #85

Sure does. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #130

That explains it! Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #92

Remind me, what was Bill Clinton doing during the Vietnam war? frylock Aug 2015 #116

Anything including voting for illegal wars. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #14

The strong and wrong vs weak and right problem The CCC Aug 2015 #22

Perception vs. reality Renew Deal Aug 2015 #28

+100%! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #131

How can anyone in this country NOT feel safe from foriegn invaders? blackspade Aug 2015 #36

Who the fuck is going to make us not feel safe? Let's see... arcane1 Aug 2015 #57

They'll do anything -- except actually fight nichomachus Aug 2015 #43

"Hillary (and to some degree Trump) will do anything to defend this country." Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #51

Trump had "deferrments" to avoid Vietnam draft like Cheney and got released for a "bone spur"... cascadiance Aug 2015 #66

FFS, maybe we should stop demanding their TBF Aug 2015 #125

Not hard Renew Deal Aug 2015 #169

I'm giving you the real answer - TBF Sep 2015 #173

"stop going to other countries and taking their stuff." EX500rider Sep 2015 #199

Don't even start with me. nt TBF Sep 2015 #200

In other words we haven't gone & taken anything from anybody since the end of WWII... EX500rider Sep 2015 #201

Not just land - resources. TBF Sep 2015 #204

Fine...what resources have we forcibly taken and not paid for? EX500rider Sep 2015 #205

Look, whether we "pay" is not the point, TBF Sep 2015 #206

So in other words you have zero examples where we have stolen resources in the last 50 years.. EX500rider Sep 2015 #211

I see our discussion here is done. TBF Sep 2015 #212

I DON'T "FEEL SAFE" with someone who John Poet Sep 2015 #175

Please tell me exactly what would be wrong with a CinC who DIDN'T want every war possible? Vincardog Aug 2015 #7

"CHICKEN HAWKS" = sexist hawks? L0oniX Aug 2015 #20

No Chicken Hawks = 5 deferments anal cyst dick Cheney becoming war monger. Couldn't be bothered Vincardog Aug 2015 #29

Yep, at least Sanders took a principled stand as a conscientious objector instead of using EXCUSES.. cascadiance Aug 2015 #59

If 5 deferments disqualifies someone, we should look for a better backup plan than Joe Biden. n/t hughee99 Aug 2015 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author Vincardog Aug 2015 #166

No problems with Bernie. hughee99 Sep 2015 #185

An establishment democrat to replace an establishment democrat is no plan it is Vincardog Sep 2015 #188

It's the plan of the "establishment democrats", not mine. hughee99 Sep 2015 #190

My plan, is to laugh at their plans, all the way to Bernie's inauguration Vincardog Sep 2015 #191

that breaks my balls. L0oniX. We have all lost our minds. roguevalley Aug 2015 #95

Heh, that was just STUPID. John Poet Sep 2015 #176

his service to the country in government is as valuable as any boot tromping he may have done tomm2thumbs Aug 2015 #10

Ops agenda against Sanders is out of control. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #11

Where exactly was Bill Clinton? SoapBox Aug 2015 #41

'Conscientious Objector' Bill Clinton I believe was at Oxford. Vincardog Aug 2015 #62

hiding under his bed and I say this as the sister of a brother whose draft number was 2. roguevalley Aug 2015 #96

And do you remember the deal he got with the Arkansas National Guard to be there? karynnj Sep 2015 #194

I only got involved in this thread to ask "How does posessing principales disqualify Berie"? Vincardog Sep 2015 #197

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #132

Senator Sanders, your Reverend Wright moment has been delivered. rocktivity Aug 2015 #13

My wish is that America is grown up enough for someone like Bernie Gregorian Aug 2015 #15

Americans voted for George W. Bush. Bush II escaped the war in the reserve. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #16

He hates war ...is bad? L0oniX Aug 2015 #17

Few candidates have served. Z_California Aug 2015 #18

I wonder how Vietnam Vets will take this? leftofcool Aug 2015 #19

How did they take Bill Clinton dodging the draft? ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #21

"At least Sanders was honest" - 40 years later. George II Aug 2015 #26

What? ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #30

So he lied about it for 40 years? progressoid Aug 2015 #44

He didn't FILE to be a conscientious objector 40 years later... cascadiance Aug 2015 #52

Besides, being a conscientious objector is no disgrace. Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #94

George II just shows up and says stuff. It's alright. roguevalley Aug 2015 #97

Its not mentioned in ANY of the biographies that have been posted.... George II Aug 2015 #106

If you dislike Republicans more than progressives, then why don't you bitch about Trump... cascadiance Aug 2015 #111

I used to pretend that if I'd never heard of a thing, it didn't exist too. LanternWaste Aug 2015 #120

Did you have a point? George II Aug 2015 #144

Do YOU? John Poet Sep 2015 #178

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #122

No, I never heard that Sanders applied for CO status until yesterday...... George II Aug 2015 #147

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #151

Trying what? George II Aug 2015 #153

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #154

What then did he say 40 years ago which was dishonest? LanternWaste Aug 2015 #118

Not very well as I recall. Clinton was called a draft dodger leftofcool Aug 2015 #34

Biden didn't dodge the draft. George II Aug 2015 #78

Joe Biden took FIVE draft deferments, then got cut loose because of asthma roguevalley Aug 2015 #98

I guess they both have Trump beat with only four deferments before he got a loose for "bone spurs".. cascadiance Aug 2015 #114

I knowthat. ..so? He was medically disqualified. I guess I "dodged" the draft..... George II Sep 2015 #196

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #187

You are out of the loop if you don't already know that answer. Vietnam vets were killed and rhett o rick Aug 2015 #35

Had had a cousin that was drafted after high school... SoapBox Aug 2015 #50

No Need to Ask, I'll Say It The River Aug 2015 #93

Thanks for sharing. I am glad you made it back. A guy I graduated from high school with, rhett o rick Aug 2015 #99

This Is My Standard Reply The River Aug 2015 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #143

Well, they've given him awards Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #40

I wonder how Vietnam Vets will take this? The CCC Aug 2015 #42

Well there were Viet Vets throwing their medals away after they came home INdemo Aug 2015 #89

The ones who hated the war or the ones who are rightwing tools? Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #142

If these awards are any indication, they're fine with it. smokey nj Sep 2015 #184

OK....So what? blackspade Aug 2015 #23

I applaud him for his anti-war stances. The pro-war stance of his primary opponent didn't rhett o rick Aug 2015 #25

And he was right! Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #27

You know the righties are going to go after that liberal N proud Aug 2015 #31

Where was Rump? SoapBox Aug 2015 #45

Has a little hypocrisy ever bothered the republicans? liberal N proud Aug 2015 #63

He got a "medical deferrment" for some bone spurs in his foot! cascadiance Aug 2015 #101

OMG there goes the republican vote! Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #146

Righties will go after him whether he served or not A Little Weird Aug 2015 #156

If the right wants to go after him for this, LET them. John Poet Sep 2015 #179

frankly, were he a Quaker I _would_ have a problem with it, because there are necessary wars IMO zazen Aug 2015 #33

Good for him -- makes me like him all the more nichomachus Aug 2015 #39

Won't vote for him in the primary, but I have no problem with his actions OKNancy Aug 2015 #48

It is about time to quit waving the damn bloody shirt on Vietnam. yellowcanine Aug 2015 #49

Yes. Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #54

Most Democrats are going to support this. herding cats Aug 2015 #56

There is a difference between a conscientious objector and a chickenhawk. stillwaiting Aug 2015 #58

Be careful with the "logic" of that commander in chief talk HassleCat Aug 2015 #60

Just another hit to his electability in the GE. onehandle Aug 2015 #65

You just did comment. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #69

I like Bernie. I currently support Hillary. But I think this is going to be substantial. hamsterjill Aug 2015 #67

No it wont. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #70

We'll have to agree to disagree then, because I think it will definitely matter. hamsterjill Aug 2015 #71

Conscientious objectors were courageous in my book. Deferers were COWARDS... cascadiance Aug 2015 #117

I think you are right... And it won't matter.... Adrahil Sep 2015 #172

And they called Clinton a draft dodger. You think they won't call Bernie the same thing? leftofcool Aug 2015 #82

You are right on four of them. former9thward Aug 2015 #133

given Hill could have enlisted and didn't, she didn't go either. none story roguevalley Aug 2015 #100

Nope. I don't think so. hamsterjill Aug 2015 #136

no it isn't. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #148

Thank you for your opinion. hamsterjill Aug 2015 #163

I remember my mom talking about sending me to Canada Art_from_Ark Aug 2015 #167

I consider it a POSITIVE. John Poet Sep 2015 #181

Couple weeks back his surrogates here were denying the story out of VT. Historic NY Aug 2015 #73

You do know what the words "applied for" and "age" mean, right? nt Electric Monk Aug 2015 #74

Huh. Seems to be a pattern. I see an OP with some possible negative about Sanders, and big_dog Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #75

This is very bad. When one declares oneself a conscientious objector, one is declaring progree Aug 2015 #76

No they do not have to willing to send our troops to die. WDIM Aug 2015 #108

You and I might agree, but the vast majority of the electorate doesn't progree Aug 2015 #162

Good for Bernie - there is a chapter in asiliveandbreathe Aug 2015 #77

This matters because he would likely be facing someone with military experience in the general. shawn703 Aug 2015 #84

Actually, the only reason Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait was because April Glaspie, under the bush still_one Aug 2015 #88

Standing strong against the Military industrial complex is far braver than going along with it felix_numinous Aug 2015 #91

When will Hillary or Republicans propose a War tax on millionaires like he has?! cascadiance Aug 2015 #119

Great link! felix_numinous Aug 2015 #137

Good for him! Maedhros Aug 2015 #103

Good for him! He was on the correct side of history again. WDIM Aug 2015 #104

Uh ........ left-of-center2012 Aug 2015 #105

Did Hillary serve in the military? left-of-center2012 Aug 2015 #107

of course not. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #115

It's not that they "want more war" Maedhros Sep 2015 #203

She was a Republican Goldwater girl at that time. So, that was better. closeupready Aug 2015 #141

She was a Republican Goldwater girl left-of-center2012 Aug 2015 #149

Gold water daleo Sep 2015 #198

A Conscientious Objector status means that a person could still be drafted unlike a draft deferment. LiberalArkie Aug 2015 #113

Conciencious Objector? Turbineguy Aug 2015 #123

I think a pacifist is exactly what we need now! ananda Aug 2015 #124

We could sure use a president that sees military action as a last resort. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #126

Answer: by a conscientious majority n/t Jeroen Aug 2015 #129

Completely unrecommended. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #134

First, gunz. Then black insensitivity. Then Latino insensitivity. Now draft dodging. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #135

Any Heart fans here? You know, "Barracuda"? This weekend, on cable, closeupready Aug 2015 #138

And Hillary served...? Wasn't she a Republican Goldwater girl at the time? closeupready Aug 2015 #139

Which presidential candidates served in the Vietnam War? City Lights Aug 2015 #140

Then I like him even more. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #145

And? Doctor_J Aug 2015 #150

As a Vietnam conbat veteran I can say this doesn't bother me. 4bucksagallon Aug 2015 #152

So he did it legally as opposed to craping in his pants Lint Head Aug 2015 #155

Most people here will like this. Many other voters won't. You can't get elected on message boards. WhoWoodaKnew Aug 2015 #157

Good for him!!! tavernier Aug 2015 #158

The voters can make their own opinions but I think this won't be a major issue. hrmjustin Aug 2015 #160

Bill Clinton dodged Vietnam, too. valerief Aug 2015 #165

Makes me love him even more. G.W. Bush=Deserter in Chief. joanbarnes Aug 2015 #168

If you think about the question, the answer becomes crystal clear... MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #171

nothing wrong with it, it was there to be applied for treestar Sep 2015 #177

And this is supposed to be a *bad* thing? Smarmie Doofus Sep 2015 #180

They did the same thing with Bill Clinton when he was running in 1992 INdemo Sep 2015 #182

Him and many others. Does the name Muhammed Ali ring a bell? merrily Sep 2015 #183

WOOF, WOOF, WOOF, WOOF, woof, woof, woof,...... StandingInLeftField Sep 2015 #186

As an infantry combat vet with two combat tours... tabasco Sep 2015 #189

+1. nt Alice500 Sep 2015 #192

It takes courage to be a conscientious objector. Alice500 Sep 2015 #193

Yes it does. But you had to be opposed to more than a specific war onenote Sep 2015 #209

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #210

It would be interesting to hear him explain why he is no longer a conscientious objector Freddie Stubbs Sep 2015 #195

He objected to the war. He refused to go. Completely consistent. mainer Sep 2015 #202

This reaffirms my trust in Bernie Sanders even more JonLP24 Sep 2015 #207