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progree

(12,726 posts)

162. You and I might agree, but the vast majority of the electorate doesn't

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:14 PM

Aug 2015

agree that we should never fight in any war -- e.g. WWII -- no matter what the cause is or what is at stake.

My point was/is that a conscientious objector is claiming they believe against fighting in any war -- in most cases, including apparently Bernie's -- to get out of fighting a war that others are forced to fight who don't make dishonest claims.

I looked into getting C.O. status during the Vietnam War, so I know what I'm talking about.

As for Martin Luther King, Jesus, etc. -- they were not CIC's of countries being attacked/invaded. One can preach non-violence and pour forth wonderfully progressive wonderful-sounding rhetoric until one is blue in the face, but it won't win any general elections, or defend from attack from those who feel otherwise.

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Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam: Campaign Confirms [View all] big_dog Aug 2015 OP

Someone who saw the invasion of Vietnam as the crime it was n/t arcane1 Aug 2015 #1

Unlike drone attacks? BainsBane Aug 2015 #53

I am not thrilled with his position on drones either, or Palestine, I suppose. Who is running randys1 Aug 2015 #55

There are a few issues BainsBane Aug 2015 #80

A good and thoughtful response. Thank you, Bainsbane. Koinos Aug 2015 #87

I am a fan of Bernie and would support Hillary, and today listening to Michaelangelo Signorile on XM randys1 Aug 2015 #102

I understand you don't do that Randy BainsBane Aug 2015 #110

TO be faiir to him he must have filled out his CO forms truthfully and said he only opposed randys1 Aug 2015 #112

What is his Palestinian position that you aren't thrilled with? oberliner Aug 2015 #164

This thread is about Vietnam n/t arcane1 Aug 2015 #64

You tell me: *are* they crimes? n/t Smarmie Doofus Aug 2015 #81

The criteria for conscientious objector was decided by the USSC. Justice Thurgood Marshall wrote 24601 Aug 2015 #86

You should cite the actual case, not the Wikipedia cite. Worse, Wikipedia cites an EDITED test. happyslug Aug 2015 #170

how can hillary expect someone to call into question his firmly held pacifism roguevalley Aug 2015 #90

As I recall, there was a problem for a lot of young men who opposed hedgehog Aug 2015 #2

The world's largest military hueymahl Aug 2015 #3

^^^^ MuseRider Aug 2015 #6

There is a reason Mr.Bill Aug 2015 #9

But we have elected 26 out of 44 that had military serivce. Historic NY Aug 2015 #68

And that's okay, if it's what the voters want. Mr.Bill Aug 2015 #79

+100%! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #128

Did you include W as one of the 26? Sanity Claws Aug 2015 #109

+1 nt Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #37

When did we stop being the Peace Keepers? tecelote Aug 2015 #83

At one time, "Peace" was considered to be such a good word, Art_from_Ark Aug 2015 #159

+100%! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #127

AMEN to that! John Poet Sep 2015 #174

He was straight up honest about it, unlike a certain AWOL* recent CinC* warmonger I can think of. Electric Monk Aug 2015 #4

means there won't be a drip drip drip 6chars Aug 2015 #12

This is also one reason why he openly calls himself a 'socialist' -- Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #46

I have wondered why he ever identified as a "socialist" if he did so without adding randys1 Aug 2015 #61

I think it's to undercut the inevitable red baiting. Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #72

Whose forces also got a certain television host fired for trying to report the truth on this too! cascadiance Aug 2015 #47

They go so far and beyond to discredit whoever gets in their way and truth is the biggest thing JonLP24 Sep 2015 #208

The strong and wrong vs weak and right problem Renew Deal Aug 2015 #5

That's a right-wing meme that you may want to help develop on FR Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #8

No it's not. It's from Bill Clinton Renew Deal Aug 2015 #24

OMG...like Bush?!? SoapBox Aug 2015 #32

Is Clinton wrong? Renew Deal Aug 2015 #38

I think that depends on your definition of weak, strong and wrong.... haikugal Aug 2015 #85

Sure does. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #130

That explains it! Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #92

Remind me, what was Bill Clinton doing during the Vietnam war? frylock Aug 2015 #116

Anything including voting for illegal wars. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #14

The strong and wrong vs weak and right problem The CCC Aug 2015 #22

Perception vs. reality Renew Deal Aug 2015 #28

+100%! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #131

How can anyone in this country NOT feel safe from foriegn invaders? blackspade Aug 2015 #36

Who the fuck is going to make us not feel safe? Let's see... arcane1 Aug 2015 #57

They'll do anything -- except actually fight nichomachus Aug 2015 #43

"Hillary (and to some degree Trump) will do anything to defend this country." Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #51

Trump had "deferrments" to avoid Vietnam draft like Cheney and got released for a "bone spur"... cascadiance Aug 2015 #66

FFS, maybe we should stop demanding their TBF Aug 2015 #125

Not hard Renew Deal Aug 2015 #169

I'm giving you the real answer - TBF Sep 2015 #173

"stop going to other countries and taking their stuff." EX500rider Sep 2015 #199

Don't even start with me. nt TBF Sep 2015 #200

In other words we haven't gone & taken anything from anybody since the end of WWII... EX500rider Sep 2015 #201

Not just land - resources. TBF Sep 2015 #204

Fine...what resources have we forcibly taken and not paid for? EX500rider Sep 2015 #205

Look, whether we "pay" is not the point, TBF Sep 2015 #206

So in other words you have zero examples where we have stolen resources in the last 50 years.. EX500rider Sep 2015 #211

I see our discussion here is done. TBF Sep 2015 #212

I DON'T "FEEL SAFE" with someone who John Poet Sep 2015 #175

Please tell me exactly what would be wrong with a CinC who DIDN'T want every war possible? Vincardog Aug 2015 #7

"CHICKEN HAWKS" = sexist hawks? L0oniX Aug 2015 #20

No Chicken Hawks = 5 deferments anal cyst dick Cheney becoming war monger. Couldn't be bothered Vincardog Aug 2015 #29

Yep, at least Sanders took a principled stand as a conscientious objector instead of using EXCUSES.. cascadiance Aug 2015 #59

If 5 deferments disqualifies someone, we should look for a better backup plan than Joe Biden. n/t hughee99 Aug 2015 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author Vincardog Aug 2015 #166

No problems with Bernie. hughee99 Sep 2015 #185

An establishment democrat to replace an establishment democrat is no plan it is Vincardog Sep 2015 #188

It's the plan of the "establishment democrats", not mine. hughee99 Sep 2015 #190

My plan, is to laugh at their plans, all the way to Bernie's inauguration Vincardog Sep 2015 #191

that breaks my balls. L0oniX. We have all lost our minds. roguevalley Aug 2015 #95

Heh, that was just STUPID. John Poet Sep 2015 #176

his service to the country in government is as valuable as any boot tromping he may have done tomm2thumbs Aug 2015 #10

Ops agenda against Sanders is out of control. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #11

Where exactly was Bill Clinton? SoapBox Aug 2015 #41

'Conscientious Objector' Bill Clinton I believe was at Oxford. Vincardog Aug 2015 #62

hiding under his bed and I say this as the sister of a brother whose draft number was 2. roguevalley Aug 2015 #96

And do you remember the deal he got with the Arkansas National Guard to be there? karynnj Sep 2015 #194

I only got involved in this thread to ask "How does posessing principales disqualify Berie"? Vincardog Sep 2015 #197

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #132

Senator Sanders, your Reverend Wright moment has been delivered. rocktivity Aug 2015 #13

My wish is that America is grown up enough for someone like Bernie Gregorian Aug 2015 #15

Americans voted for George W. Bush. Bush II escaped the war in the reserve. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #16

He hates war ...is bad? L0oniX Aug 2015 #17

Few candidates have served. Z_California Aug 2015 #18

I wonder how Vietnam Vets will take this? leftofcool Aug 2015 #19

How did they take Bill Clinton dodging the draft? ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #21

"At least Sanders was honest" - 40 years later. George II Aug 2015 #26

What? ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #30

So he lied about it for 40 years? progressoid Aug 2015 #44

He didn't FILE to be a conscientious objector 40 years later... cascadiance Aug 2015 #52

Besides, being a conscientious objector is no disgrace. Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #94

George II just shows up and says stuff. It's alright. roguevalley Aug 2015 #97

Its not mentioned in ANY of the biographies that have been posted.... George II Aug 2015 #106

If you dislike Republicans more than progressives, then why don't you bitch about Trump... cascadiance Aug 2015 #111

I used to pretend that if I'd never heard of a thing, it didn't exist too. LanternWaste Aug 2015 #120

Did you have a point? George II Aug 2015 #144

Do YOU? John Poet Sep 2015 #178

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #122

No, I never heard that Sanders applied for CO status until yesterday...... George II Aug 2015 #147

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #151

Trying what? George II Aug 2015 #153

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #154

What then did he say 40 years ago which was dishonest? LanternWaste Aug 2015 #118

Not very well as I recall. Clinton was called a draft dodger leftofcool Aug 2015 #34

Biden didn't dodge the draft. George II Aug 2015 #78

Joe Biden took FIVE draft deferments, then got cut loose because of asthma roguevalley Aug 2015 #98

I guess they both have Trump beat with only four deferments before he got a loose for "bone spurs".. cascadiance Aug 2015 #114

I knowthat. ..so? He was medically disqualified. I guess I "dodged" the draft..... George II Sep 2015 #196

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #187

You are out of the loop if you don't already know that answer. Vietnam vets were killed and rhett o rick Aug 2015 #35

Had had a cousin that was drafted after high school... SoapBox Aug 2015 #50

No Need to Ask, I'll Say It The River Aug 2015 #93

Thanks for sharing. I am glad you made it back. A guy I graduated from high school with, rhett o rick Aug 2015 #99

This Is My Standard Reply The River Aug 2015 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #143

Well, they've given him awards Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #40

I wonder how Vietnam Vets will take this? The CCC Aug 2015 #42

Well there were Viet Vets throwing their medals away after they came home INdemo Aug 2015 #89

The ones who hated the war or the ones who are rightwing tools? Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #142

If these awards are any indication, they're fine with it. smokey nj Sep 2015 #184

OK....So what? blackspade Aug 2015 #23

I applaud him for his anti-war stances. The pro-war stance of his primary opponent didn't rhett o rick Aug 2015 #25

And he was right! Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #27

You know the righties are going to go after that liberal N proud Aug 2015 #31

Where was Rump? SoapBox Aug 2015 #45

Has a little hypocrisy ever bothered the republicans? liberal N proud Aug 2015 #63

He got a "medical deferrment" for some bone spurs in his foot! cascadiance Aug 2015 #101

OMG there goes the republican vote! Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #146

Righties will go after him whether he served or not A Little Weird Aug 2015 #156

If the right wants to go after him for this, LET them. John Poet Sep 2015 #179

frankly, were he a Quaker I _would_ have a problem with it, because there are necessary wars IMO zazen Aug 2015 #33

Good for him -- makes me like him all the more nichomachus Aug 2015 #39

Won't vote for him in the primary, but I have no problem with his actions OKNancy Aug 2015 #48

It is about time to quit waving the damn bloody shirt on Vietnam. yellowcanine Aug 2015 #49

Yes. Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #54

Most Democrats are going to support this. herding cats Aug 2015 #56

There is a difference between a conscientious objector and a chickenhawk. stillwaiting Aug 2015 #58

Be careful with the "logic" of that commander in chief talk HassleCat Aug 2015 #60

Just another hit to his electability in the GE. onehandle Aug 2015 #65

You just did comment. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #69

I like Bernie. I currently support Hillary. But I think this is going to be substantial. hamsterjill Aug 2015 #67

No it wont. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #70

We'll have to agree to disagree then, because I think it will definitely matter. hamsterjill Aug 2015 #71

Conscientious objectors were courageous in my book. Deferers were COWARDS... cascadiance Aug 2015 #117

I think you are right... And it won't matter.... Adrahil Sep 2015 #172

And they called Clinton a draft dodger. You think they won't call Bernie the same thing? leftofcool Aug 2015 #82

You are right on four of them. former9thward Aug 2015 #133

given Hill could have enlisted and didn't, she didn't go either. none story roguevalley Aug 2015 #100

Nope. I don't think so. hamsterjill Aug 2015 #136

no it isn't. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #148

Thank you for your opinion. hamsterjill Aug 2015 #163

I remember my mom talking about sending me to Canada Art_from_Ark Aug 2015 #167

I consider it a POSITIVE. John Poet Sep 2015 #181

Couple weeks back his surrogates here were denying the story out of VT. Historic NY Aug 2015 #73

You do know what the words "applied for" and "age" mean, right? nt Electric Monk Aug 2015 #74

Huh. Seems to be a pattern. I see an OP with some possible negative about Sanders, and big_dog Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #75

This is very bad. When one declares oneself a conscientious objector, one is declaring progree Aug 2015 #76

No they do not have to willing to send our troops to die. WDIM Aug 2015 #108

You and I might agree, but the vast majority of the electorate doesn't progree Aug 2015 #162

Good for Bernie - there is a chapter in asiliveandbreathe Aug 2015 #77

This matters because he would likely be facing someone with military experience in the general. shawn703 Aug 2015 #84

Actually, the only reason Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait was because April Glaspie, under the bush still_one Aug 2015 #88

Standing strong against the Military industrial complex is far braver than going along with it felix_numinous Aug 2015 #91

When will Hillary or Republicans propose a War tax on millionaires like he has?! cascadiance Aug 2015 #119

Great link! felix_numinous Aug 2015 #137

Good for him! Maedhros Aug 2015 #103

Good for him! He was on the correct side of history again. WDIM Aug 2015 #104

Uh ........ left-of-center2012 Aug 2015 #105

Did Hillary serve in the military? left-of-center2012 Aug 2015 #107

of course not. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2015 #115

It's not that they "want more war" Maedhros Sep 2015 #203

She was a Republican Goldwater girl at that time. So, that was better. closeupready Aug 2015 #141

She was a Republican Goldwater girl left-of-center2012 Aug 2015 #149

Gold water daleo Sep 2015 #198

A Conscientious Objector status means that a person could still be drafted unlike a draft deferment. LiberalArkie Aug 2015 #113

Conciencious Objector? Turbineguy Aug 2015 #123

I think a pacifist is exactly what we need now! ananda Aug 2015 #124

We could sure use a president that sees military action as a last resort. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #126

Answer: by a conscientious majority n/t Jeroen Aug 2015 #129

Completely unrecommended. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #134

First, gunz. Then black insensitivity. Then Latino insensitivity. Now draft dodging. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #135

Any Heart fans here? You know, "Barracuda"? This weekend, on cable, closeupready Aug 2015 #138

And Hillary served...? Wasn't she a Republican Goldwater girl at the time? closeupready Aug 2015 #139

Which presidential candidates served in the Vietnam War? City Lights Aug 2015 #140

Then I like him even more. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #145

And? Doctor_J Aug 2015 #150

As a Vietnam conbat veteran I can say this doesn't bother me. 4bucksagallon Aug 2015 #152

So he did it legally as opposed to craping in his pants Lint Head Aug 2015 #155

Most people here will like this. Many other voters won't. You can't get elected on message boards. WhoWoodaKnew Aug 2015 #157

Good for him!!! tavernier Aug 2015 #158

The voters can make their own opinions but I think this won't be a major issue. hrmjustin Aug 2015 #160

Bill Clinton dodged Vietnam, too. valerief Aug 2015 #165

Makes me love him even more. G.W. Bush=Deserter in Chief. joanbarnes Aug 2015 #168

If you think about the question, the answer becomes crystal clear... MrMickeysMom Aug 2015 #171

nothing wrong with it, it was there to be applied for treestar Sep 2015 #177

And this is supposed to be a *bad* thing? Smarmie Doofus Sep 2015 #180

They did the same thing with Bill Clinton when he was running in 1992 INdemo Sep 2015 #182

Him and many others. Does the name Muhammed Ali ring a bell? merrily Sep 2015 #183

WOOF, WOOF, WOOF, WOOF, woof, woof, woof,...... StandingInLeftField Sep 2015 #186

As an infantry combat vet with two combat tours... tabasco Sep 2015 #189

+1. nt Alice500 Sep 2015 #192

It takes courage to be a conscientious objector. Alice500 Sep 2015 #193

Yes it does. But you had to be opposed to more than a specific war onenote Sep 2015 #209

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #210

It would be interesting to hear him explain why he is no longer a conscientious objector Freddie Stubbs Sep 2015 #195

He objected to the war. He refused to go. Completely consistent. mainer Sep 2015 #202

This reaffirms my trust in Bernie Sanders even more JonLP24 Sep 2015 #207