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yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)

32. Yes both should be fired

Reply to Fred Sanders (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 7, 2015, 07:16 PM

Sep 2015

Unfortunately one is elected so trickier. The other has been fired thankfully.

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Muslim flight attendant suspended for not serving alcohol [View all] Judi Lynn Sep 2015 OP

Why should another attendent have to take on extra duties with no increase in pay? NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #1

Good. She's allowed to refuse to drink it. Warpy Sep 2015 #2

Fundie flight attendant complains and the Fundie airline bosses go with the Fundie whining? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #3

A little unfair to label her a fundie, no? EDIT: Misread Fred's, but leaving up. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #14

I was talking about the employee that complained about the one asking for a religious accommodation. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #15

I owe you an apology. Misread your post. A lot of anti-Muslim piling-on in this thread. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #22

Yes...blissful ignorance is rampant about the law and the false equivalency to the elected public official. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #23

I've been in the position of being an employer needing to accommodate. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #25

Exactly. No one was complaining except this one fundamentalist Christian weaned on Fox no doubt. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #27

Bing! Bing! Bing! Bing! Bing! longship Sep 2015 #103

DRoseDars deserves the credit, his sticking to the principle of law is the winning argument. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #104

Indeed! DRoseDars! longship Sep 2015 #108

I deserve no credit, silly, but t/y. To think, I got involved because I was dumb... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #109

It's amazing others couldn't see your points immediately, Fred Sanders. Judi Lynn Sep 2015 #151

I realize accusing others of being right wingers is a lot easier than accepting that others have... FrodosPet Sep 2015 #156

I want a job as a bartender FrodosPet Sep 2015 #123

See post 151 and keep learning. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #152

Can't speak about others, but I am not anti-Islam. I am anti-lazy. FrodosPet Sep 2015 #153

"Reasonable religious accomodation" is a technical legal term...if you are familiar with it you Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #155

Making other do the work that you are paid for is NOT REASONABLE. FrodosPet Sep 2015 #157

What does the EEOC say about it? FrodosPet Sep 2015 #159

nobody is asking her to drink a fucking can of beer, just do your job lady snooper2 Sep 2015 #134

She can't do her job--she is required to serve on single FA flights and she can't do that. MADem Sep 2015 #112

"Muslims owning convenience stores have no problem selling beer and wine....", so....what? Is it because all those Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #117

Don't be obtuse. This woman is making shit up as she goes along. MADem Sep 2015 #119

You are being strangely outraged over a minor legal dispute! And challenge.... you? Why? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #133

Why are you talking about ME? What makes you do that? You do know it's rude, don't you? MADem Sep 2015 #135

Can't do the job hired to do, find other employment yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #4

Religious accommodation laws have been working fairly well for decades...it is the law. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #18

Who would then serve the alcohol on single attendant flights. 60% of this airline's? whatthehey Sep 2015 #26

There are two alternatives. Igel Sep 2015 #58

Would you have been as even handed in your response if the woman was not muslim? tymorial Sep 2015 #28

Wait, are you accusing FS of being anti-Christian? DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #30

Reasonable accommodation is reasonable accommodation, no matter the religion.....I guess the courts will sort it out. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #31

One kid I hired had rods in his spine, couldn't lift weight beyond X amount... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #37

What about a plane with ONE FA? Like most of them? MADem Sep 2015 #113

It's not "reasonable" to have to pay a second FA AND give up a MADem Sep 2015 #120

But what if the meals contained pork? nichomachus Sep 2015 #40

Did she have an accommodation for this? Igel Sep 2015 #59

Reasonable accommodation requires minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #52

Except the employer had already made the accommodation with her. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #55

Perhaps they complained because the division of duties TexasBushwhacker Sep 2015 #61

Their complaint specifically points out her "foreign writings" and her headscarf... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #63

The complaint may have had other more reasonable arguments. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #79

The problem is the employer rescinded the RA only after the complaint. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #83

We don't know what's in the complaint. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #85

So you're accusing her lawyer of lying when they mention specifics out of it? DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #86

Why not. Crazy clerk lady's lawyer is spinning like mad. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #87

If that's the case, the airline could blast him out of the water. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #91

It doesn't matter if those comments are in the complaint... NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #95

A motion for dismissal would have already been filed...which it has not. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #96

Which is why I'm pretty confident the two specifics are in fact real. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #100

Fred, every lawyer will file a motion to dismiss, no matter what the odds. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #102

No. Every lawyer without a conscience and a client loaded with money, will. And will fail, almost Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #105

The fact that an RA is offered and accepted doesn't make it permanent. Xithras Sep 2015 #148

The co-worker probably complained they were over-burdened. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #77

That might be true, but there's also the "foreign writings and her headscarf"... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #80

Which means nothing if the company found she was subjecting others to more than minimal burden. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #84

what was rescinded? passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #116

When does an accommodation pose an “undue hardship”? FrodosPet Sep 2015 #160

Like I said, law school is three years for a reason.... I am glad folks are understanding the Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #164

There's the key phrase... "Reasonably Accommodated" FrodosPet Sep 2015 #167

When will the religious learn madashelltoo Sep 2015 #5

suspended for not doing her job Skittles Sep 2015 #6

Seems too easy right. Statistical Sep 2015 #7

I keep hearing about "reasonable accommodation" Skittles Sep 2015 #17

Folks need a refresher course in Law 101 and Introductory Employment Law. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #20

Yeah, maybe. crim son Sep 2015 #39

Here's a handy link to EEOC guidance on this issue Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #146

2 "m"s in accommodation nt Herman4747 Sep 2015 #131

I define "reasonable" accommodation as one that doesn't interfere rocktivity Sep 2015 #149

It is truly ridiculous. tymorial Sep 2015 #29

Yes, the principal of law is exactly the same and the principle will be exactly applied, within reason. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #33

Absolutely, if you can't do your job because of religious restrictions, then you smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #47

It wasn't mentioned during her training that she would be serving booze? sarge43 Sep 2015 #8

She changed religions after she was already flying. SoapBox Sep 2015 #34

Agree and if her faith is incompatible with job requirements, then she should have quit. n/t sarge43 Sep 2015 #45

This airline has 5 types of aircraft, 3 of which use a single attendant, 2 of which use 2 attendants Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #9

Why do only some Christians stone adulterers to death? DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #16

I'm guessing there are Mormon flight attendants TexasBushwhacker Sep 2015 #10

In the past, there were "strict" Mormons that got hired and then SoapBox Sep 2015 #35

Interesting....I would appreciate evidence of that...could be useful for a lawyer in court when Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #36

Excellent point! Workplace accommodations are made for mental disabilities as well, I suppose Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #41

Yes, but the reasonable accommodation is you can TexasBushwhacker Sep 2015 #46

I don't think the words "reasonable accommodation" mean what you think they mean. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #50

There is a reason law school is 3 years specialized education, after a primary degree. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #88

I never had law school, just real world experience. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #93

You have the correct understanding of employment law and what the legal principle is, and what "relgious accommodation" means, Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #94

"that still gets me the work I need out of them." FrodosPet Sep 2015 #129

"reasonable accommodation" is indeed the watchword--it's often tossed out the window MisterP Sep 2015 #114

She should have never taken this job question everything Sep 2015 #11

she converted to Islam after she was hired for this position Skittles Sep 2015 #19

Serving alcohol on occasion inflight is certainly a vital duty she objects to doing ...so she should be fired?? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #21

Yes both should be fired yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #32

What do you think of a pharmacist that christx30 Sep 2015 #124

She should be grateful she hasn't been fired. rocktivity Sep 2015 #12

What is going to happen is that employers are going to stop hiring the religious smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #51

Funny she has no problem working for a company making $$ from alcohol. CharlotteVale Sep 2015 #13

she should either do her job, find another line of work or be fired rollin74 Sep 2015 #24

She converted to Islam after she was already flying... SoapBox Sep 2015 #38

and, the really strange part of that is that dhol82 Sep 2015 #115

It's not just serving mercuryblues Sep 2015 #42

See post 27....get informed BEFORE the outrage?! Or not, as you please. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #43

read you post mercuryblues Sep 2015 #67

The EMPLOYER made the call and felt they could reasonably accommodate her. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #71

You are raining down logic and law on deaf ears....anyone wondering why the RW and their media Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #92

Borrowing a page from others in-thread: If she'd been a Christian... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #97

100% a ditto on that! Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #98

I'm just glad the Advil finally kicked in. This fucking thread... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #101

Alcohol /= Pork. It's serving/consuming alcohol that's banned, not touching it. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #44

No I am saying mercuryblues Sep 2015 #60

She refused to serve alcohol. The employer accommodated that. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #65

so you are mercuryblues Sep 2015 #70

And again, the employer made the call to accommodate and she agreed to their offer. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #73

so your opinion mercuryblues Sep 2015 #81

As an employer, I've made RAs for religious requests and physical disabilities. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #89

so your opinion mercuryblues Sep 2015 #81

+1000 smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #150

sorry, I can't serve christians, women without head covering, or go into airports with bars nt msongs Sep 2015 #48

Unlawful discrimination, unlawful discrimination, legal personal choice. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #49

I don't know how universal this is followed in Islam. former9thward Sep 2015 #53

All Muslims are alike... /heavy sarcasm DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #62

To get religious accommodation you have to prove that it is an accepted belief. former9thward Sep 2015 #64

You're arguing that a general Islamic prohibition on alcohol doesn't exist? DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #68

Where did I say that? former9thward Sep 2015 #78

Offer her a transfer to another department? madville Sep 2015 #54

That could be a win/win TexasBushwhacker Sep 2015 #56

Derp, she ACCEPTED the accommodation offered by the employer. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #57

That's her attorney's version madville Sep 2015 #66

The cat's already out of the bag on this. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #69

Remember, that's according to her lawyer madville Sep 2015 #72

They mention specific elements within the complaint of the co-worker. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #75

Might not work, because of the possibility of the baggage containing alcohol (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2015 #106

SOMEBODY QUICK! ALERT MIKE HUCKABEE!!! Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #74

Also where is Ted Cruz? Clearly religious accommodation has gone too far!! The RW quiet is deafening. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #90

The RW take on it is: christx30 Sep 2015 #110

Pretty insane, hypocritical, illogical and unable to make intellectual distinctions, as the RW always is. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #118

I think there's an opening for a county clerk in Kentucky. She might be interested in that. valerief Sep 2015 #76

I think Paleo flight attendants should refuse to serve peanuts IronLionZion Sep 2015 #99

Not worthy....so...no. But thanks for the opportunity! Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #107

If she is only regulated to flights that have more than one flight attendant itsrobert Sep 2015 #111

Given the problem Airlines have had with Alcohol WHY are they permitting alcohol at all? happyslug Sep 2015 #121

Because it makes the airlines a shitload of money. Angleae Sep 2015 #125

Cruise Ships Also erpowers Sep 2015 #170

"but since you can NOT smoke of planes, why are people permitted to DRINK on planes?" Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #138

So when a plane crashes or have to land early due to a drunk, that is NOT a problem? happyslug Sep 2015 #139

That's up to the airlines, isn't it? Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #141

If they need a few drinks to fly, they should NOT be flying happyslug Sep 2015 #144

I'll have them contact you next time they fly, for a lesson in slug-flying. Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #145

Actually, yes there is FrodosPet Sep 2015 #154

That begs the question- what do you do? Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #163

I am a night shift cab driver FrodosPet Sep 2015 #165

My brother's a cabbie, but in the not so dangerous Madison, WI. Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #166

Exactly FrodosPet Sep 2015 #169

This story puts a slightly different spin on things rocktivity Sep 2015 #122

It's her job. No one is asking her to drink the alcohol. Marrah_G Sep 2015 #126

I wonder how Air Emirates gets around this CBGLuthier Sep 2015 #127

Qatar Air, Kuwait Air, UAE Express - their Muslim FAs serve booze riderinthestorm Sep 2015 #137

She needs to find a job that fits her religious beliefs. YOHABLO Sep 2015 #128

Get another job then. romanic Sep 2015 #130

She took the job, she needs to fulfill the duties of the job liberal N proud Sep 2015 #132

The same standards apply as in the Kentucky case: She has a Constitutional right to refuse to serve 24601 Sep 2015 #136

Her supervisor told her to "work out something" with her co-workers rocktivity Sep 2015 #140

Her attorney characterizes it as her employer did agree. That's why we have juries, to decide the 24601 Sep 2015 #143

Given The Absence of Specifics. . . ProfessorGAC Sep 2015 #168

Do the job or find a new one (nt) bigwillq Sep 2015 #142

I get that she can't drink it, but why force passengers to adhere to her religious nonsense? alarimer Sep 2015 #147

"Facts About Religious Discrimination" from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission FrodosPet Sep 2015 #162

Perfectly OK with me. Trying to stick her coworkers with extra work, with religion TwilightGardener Sep 2015 #158

so a flight attendant version of Kim Davis? ButterflyBlood Sep 2015 #161