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branford

(4,462 posts)

171. Feel free to list any number of lawful gun owners who committed crimes

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:32 AM

Sep 2015

(although Zimmerman was acquitted). I've never claimed they never engaged in criminal conduct, as such a contention would be ludicrous. However, no matter the few or notable anecdotes, the actual statistical rate of lawful gun owners involved in criminality, firearm or otherwise, is tiny.

Moreover, despite your cognitive dissonance and failure to even attempt to dispute the data I provided, the over 80 million gun owners in the USA do indeed represent all demographics, including a great many Democrats.

All your insults and disdain accomplish is demonstrate you ignorance, and far, far worse, help elect Republicans to Congress endangering the entire Democratic agenda, all while tilting at the elusive national gun control legislation windmills.

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Customer shoots bank robber in Warren [View all] sarisataka Sep 2015 OP

Self defense. No charges. nt 7962 Sep 2015 #1

Probably would have just taken the money and left. onehandle Sep 2015 #2

The customer is a hero. Who knows what he stopped yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #8

..... bigwillq Sep 2015 #26

With proper gun/weapon control in this country, the bank robber would be much less likely to be -none Sep 2015 #208

I would love to hear your -practical- plan to remove the current 300 legal million firearms branford Sep 2015 #212

Check our Australia in 1996. -none Sep 2015 #226

This ain't Australia, GGJohn Sep 2015 #231

I know. -none Sep 2015 #241

They also only removed a questionable percentage of known weapons branford Sep 2015 #243

Real change is a coming. -none Sep 2015 #245

Real change is a coming? GGJohn Sep 2015 #248

You'll likely be waiting a very long while. branford Sep 2015 #250

I beg to differ, GGJohn Sep 2015 #247

Not really. -none Sep 2015 #249

So many gun deaths? GGJohn Sep 2015 #251

Gun deaths are gun deaths. -none Sep 2015 #252

If someone is determined to off themselves, they don't need a gun to do so. GGJohn Sep 2015 #255

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #262

Sorry. The guy stopped a bank robbery in progress rpannier Sep 2015 #10

Controllers tend to have a visceral hatred for armed self-defense friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #13

Wha....? Rod Beauvex Sep 2015 #45

Like a world in which everyone gets a pony? maxsolomon Sep 2015 #197

The googlemachine reveals: friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #202

..... bigwillq Sep 2015 #27

You are perfectly free to make that determination for yourself friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #11

Robber pointed his gun at customer. Robber deserved to be dropped. Good shoot. nt 7962 Sep 2015 #17

Yup. bigwillq Sep 2015 #25

Lolololol!!!! GGJohn Sep 2015 #18

Sometimes getting shot is an occupational hazard Travis_0004 Sep 2015 #32

Me too. I would not take that as a reassuring gesture. n/t Yo_Mama Sep 2015 #132

+1. Not long ago a cowboy shot a store clerk trying to save his own ass during a robbery that Hoyt Sep 2015 #37

You seemed to have missed the part where the ARMED robber pointed his gun at the customer. GGJohn Sep 2015 #38

So, he didn't shoot. Stupid cowboy did, endangering others. Hoyt Sep 2015 #46

Your clairvoyance is astounding there Hoyt!!!! GGJohn Sep 2015 #50

As is yours. You think you need 4 gun safes full of gunz and ammo, and Hoyt Sep 2015 #52

Do you even realize how much of a fool you're making yourself look like? GGJohn Sep 2015 #54

Do you even realize how much of a fool you're making yourself look like with the stupid laughy thing HERVEPA Sep 2015 #227

Do you even realize how much of a fool you're making yourself look like by that post? GGJohn Sep 2015 #229

I guess the answer to my question was no. HERVEPA Sep 2015 #230

I guess it was. GGJohn Sep 2015 #232

No more, and no less than you do. n/t oneshooter Sep 2015 #242

If you point a gun at someone, you deserve to be shot Reter Sep 2015 #61

Unless you are a cowboy in a situation where others might be endangered. Hoyt Sep 2015 #75

What does that have do with anything? rockfordfile Sep 2015 #127

So, now, self defense is a republican thing? GGJohn Sep 2015 #137

You should stop trolling if you want to get to 50 posts Reter Sep 2015 #156

My thoughts also. GGJohn Sep 2015 #158

Please tell me this is self-parody. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2015 #81

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #263

Oh, I see, the customer, what, got the drop louis-t Sep 2015 #218

The armed robber had already pointed the gun at the customer GGJohn Sep 2015 #224

Sounds like you were there. louis-t Sep 2015 #225

I think I read that in a different news source, GGJohn Sep 2015 #228

Hard core Hoyt strikes again! snooper2 Sep 2015 #68

People like Hoyt lancer78 Sep 2015 #92

"Probably." that reassuring word again. Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #103

You strap a gun on to go to Chuck E Cheese, thinking you probably won't shoot an innocent kid, Hoyt Sep 2015 #106

crazy talk, as usual.nt Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #114

"Probably?" You're awfully cavalier about risking the lives of innocent people, branford Sep 2015 #41

Yeah I have know gun fanciers who consider it a defensive use to flash their gun at a Black Hoyt Sep 2015 #107

Debunked: maxsolomon Sep 2015 #108

So the CDC sarisataka Sep 2015 #121

Maybe? Here's more: maxsolomon Sep 2015 #141

Please forgive me sarisataka Sep 2015 #153

In the spirit of the Pope's visit maxsolomon Sep 2015 #187

. sarisataka Sep 2015 #188

So the CDC, acting under the Obama Admin, GGJohn Sep 2015 #135

Maybe? Here's more: maxsolomon Sep 2015 #142

Sorry, but I'll go with the official CDC study, GGJohn Sep 2015 #144

The CDC numbers just leave me flabbergasted. maxsolomon Sep 2015 #178

The CDC Report was originally linked in my Post #41 branford Sep 2015 #185

Ah, OK. I was thrown because the link doesn't say "CDC". maxsolomon Sep 2015 #186

As I indicated, the report has something for everyone in the gun debate, branford Sep 2015 #189

I emailed the Armed With Reason folks on this study. Here is their response: maxsolomon Sep 2015 #192

The report is not remotely as atypical as suggested by your source, branford Sep 2015 #200

I found it a thorough analysis of the flaws in the methodology of the cited studies maxsolomon Sep 2015 #205

The government already studies the issue. branford Sep 2015 #211

Armed with Reason didn't review the methodology of the "CDC" Survey maxsolomon Sep 2015 #220

If something doesn't agree with your preconceived notions, that doesn't mean it's BS. branford Sep 2015 #253

The customer is a hero. romanic Sep 2015 #47

. Jesus Malverde Sep 2015 #99

"Probably." i feel better. Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #100

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #259

so a "customer" shoots robber in arms and leg while cops shoot to execute. interesting nt msongs Sep 2015 #3

You beat me by 5 minutes. BarstowCowboy Sep 2015 #5

Their trained to shoot and kill so they are doing their job as trained yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #9

or maybe he was just a lousy shot Skittles Sep 2015 #20

Either lousy or amazing shooting. Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #74

My guess is he wasn't specifically aiming for arms and legs. LisaL Sep 2015 #150

The fact that the customer shot the robber in both arms and a leg... Nitram Sep 2015 #53

Maybe the robber had both hands in front of his torso. Jesus Malverde Sep 2015 #101

Probably unintentional, but hard to say. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2015 #85

Here's a question BarstowCowboy Sep 2015 #4

He missed. He was trying to shoot center mass and pee at the same time. That is really hard on your jtuck004 Sep 2015 #6

Maybe he was aiming for the torso and missed? n/t OnlinePoker Sep 2015 #7

How do you know the customer is an "average citizen?" LisaL Sep 2015 #15

If he had a lot of training he wouldn't be aiming for the arms and legs Travis_0004 Sep 2015 #58

Because it is *never* ok for a cop to shoot to wound. eggplant Sep 2015 #31

Oh goody. A wild west shootout in a bank nichomachus Sep 2015 #12

"It's only money. Let them take it." What do you suggest when money does not suffice? friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #14

Because we know that robbers never ever kill their victims. Nt hack89 Sep 2015 #16

because we know robbers always kill thier victims. Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #21

What's wrong with assuming the worst? hack89 Sep 2015 #23

+1 DashOneBravo Sep 2015 #29

I, for one, see no reason to give armed bank robbers the benefit of any doubt. branford Sep 2015 #42

I think the lesser gamble is to give them exactly what they want and move them along. Pulling a gun Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #43

Again, you can assess your own personal risk and response if confronted by such a scenario. branford Sep 2015 #44

We used to say that about airline hijackers, too. n/t 24601 Sep 2015 #57

"robbery is the height of irresponsibility" pocoloco Sep 2015 #72

Did you miss the part where the armed robber pointed his gun at the customer? GGJohn Sep 2015 #19

Old quick draw customer got him or customer drew attention to himself by pulling out his gun? Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #22

Good point treestar Sep 2015 #64

A shootout involves at least two shooters, and you also know the bank was "FILLED" with customers? snooper2 Sep 2015 #70

They let guns in banks in Michigan? jmowreader Sep 2015 #24

That's what made me think the customer Action_Patrol Sep 2015 #28

Michigan and many states allow CCW to carry a gun Travis_0004 Sep 2015 #33

I didn't know any state allowed guns in banks legally. Action_Patrol Sep 2015 #35

They do in my state also. n/t oneshooter Sep 2015 #48

OK in mich if concealed michreject Sep 2015 #111

HAHAHA sure rockfordfile Sep 2015 #122

HAHAHA sure what? GGJohn Sep 2015 #139

They do in my state. eom. GGJohn Sep 2015 #39

Ain't that a bitch JohnnyRingo Sep 2015 #30

Maybe I would have handled it differently if I was a customer at that moment bluestateguy Sep 2015 #34

Maybe the "customer" was iintending to rob the bank himself got jaysunb Sep 2015 #36

I remember a movie that had just that scene in it, GGJohn Sep 2015 #40

Yeah, where is it legal to take a gun into a bank? sofa king Sep 2015 #51

Its legal in most states, including Michigan where this happened. Travis_0004 Sep 2015 #59

Uhhh, it's perfectly legal in my state to carry a concealed weapon in banks, GGJohn Sep 2015 #60

It is sad ripcord Sep 2015 #65

Legal in Texas as long as it is concealed and you have a CHL. n/t oneshooter Sep 2015 #112

If it wasn't legal he would have been arrested. [nt] Ichigo Kurosaki Sep 2015 #213

Armed customers breaking up bank robberies is a bad, bad idea and an NRA wet dream. marble falls Sep 2015 #49

Touchy subject... mac2766 Sep 2015 #55

This was not viligante justice, GGJohn Sep 2015 #62

I understand mac2766 Sep 2015 #69

In one of the next robberies all the customers will be shot by the robbers, thanks NRA! YabaDabaNoDinoNo Sep 2015 #56

I sure hope you didn't pull any muscles with that stretch. GGJohn Sep 2015 #63

Laugh if up funny boy! It will happen and every one knows it. YabaDabaNoDinoNo Sep 2015 #66

I'm laughing at your ridiculous statement. GGJohn Sep 2015 #67

To quote "lazarus Long"... Lizzie Poppet Sep 2015 #86

Or maybe it'll be a warning to robbers christx30 Sep 2015 #73

Good point. My belief is that the more fools that carry guns, the more robbers will Hoyt Sep 2015 #77

Or perhaps the more robbers will decide armed daylight robberies in crowded banks hughee99 Sep 2015 #80

So, they just shoot people walking to their car. I don't think most robbers Hoyt Sep 2015 #83

Just more nonsense from you. GGJohn Sep 2015 #140

Agreed "gunz in people's pants aren't going to stop crime." You have to take it out once in a while. Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #258

At some point this is performance art. Jesus Malverde Sep 2015 #105

Banks train employees to just give the money up and let the robber get out. leftyladyfrommo Sep 2015 #71

You point a gun at anyone there is a pretty good chance you are gonna get shot! pocoloco Sep 2015 #76

Exactly. But there are too many cowboys looking for a chance to play policeman or be a hero. Hoyt Sep 2015 #78

Which is good policy. However, when a robber points a gun at someone... Lizzie Poppet Sep 2015 #87

It's against the law to carry any weapon leftyladyfrommo Sep 2015 #89

Umm, no not in Illinois or Missouri, in fact not in most states DonP Sep 2015 #90

According to the Kansas City Police Dept. leftyladyfrommo Sep 2015 #95

This is what I would expect in reasonable society. The teller gives the money quickly and moves the Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #207

"You cowboys are rolling the dice?" branford Sep 2015 #214

That depends on what state you're in. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2015 #91

+1. Unfortunately, too many gunners aren't going to pass up an "opportunity" Hoyt Sep 2015 #93

I agree with you but: leftyladyfrommo Sep 2015 #96

I hear you. zimmerman was well trained too, especially on what lies to tell police. Hoyt Sep 2015 #97

So far I have never seen anyone armed anywhere that I have gone. leftyladyfrommo Sep 2015 #98

If someone is carrying a legal concealed firearm, you're not supposed to know they're armed. branford Sep 2015 #102

Umm, not in AZ it isn't, GGJohn Sep 2015 #175

Especially in a bank robbery! I'm on the customer's side. Yo_Mama Sep 2015 #138

UPDATED: Bank robber shot by customer in Warren sarisataka Sep 2015 #79

So he was leaving and the brave, brave gun 'hero' went for it. onehandle Sep 2015 #109

Missed the part, AGAIN, where the ARMED robber pointed his gun at the customer? GGJohn Sep 2015 #143

And the robber already had a second degree murder conviction on the record. LisaL Sep 2015 #146

I didn't know that, GGJohn Sep 2015 #147

Robber "grabbed customer by the back of his neck" before shooting. Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #261

It is what it is sarisataka Sep 2015 #155

I'll say it again romanic Sep 2015 #82

I don't think it takes "guts" to carry a gun on city streets, just the opposite. Hoyt Sep 2015 #84

Well in my experience romanic Sep 2015 #116

I'll admit someone with one gun in the situation you describe has more of a reason to tote than Hoyt Sep 2015 #118

I see what you're saying. romanic Sep 2015 #120

you sound like a extremist rockfordfile Sep 2015 #123

No. romanic Sep 2015 #165

I guess that you would have violently popped him with a can of beans, oneshooter Sep 2015 #117

Better than being so into gunz, you post under a gunner's user name. Hoyt Sep 2015 #119

I have been shot at before, I do not relish having it happen again. n/t oneshooter Sep 2015 #125

You'd minimize the odds by staying away from gunz and those who need them. Hoyt Sep 2015 #128

Well, most of us would not view banking as cozying up to guns. Not getting your point. n/t Yo_Mama Sep 2015 #133

No, staying away from loadmouths like you tends to do well. n/t oneshooter Sep 2015 #145

True, if you an armed angry person, best you stay away from people. Hoyt Sep 2015 #151

Just more nonsense from you. GGJohn Sep 2015 #152

Not mad, I don't get mad. Just staying away from ignorants like you seems to do the trick. oneshooter Sep 2015 #154

Some of us don't need a gun, sorry you feel you do. Hoyt Sep 2015 #162

And some here are forbidden from owning firearms GGJohn Sep 2015 #163

Not me, you missed the joke. But you've never been perceptive. Another reason for you Hoyt Sep 2015 #167

Uh huh, sure Hoyt. GGJohn Sep 2015 #174

I don't feel I need a gun here in NYC (and I've never owned a gun), branford Sep 2015 #166

Yeah, you wouldn't want to hamper militia types and yahoos getting gunz. Hoyt Sep 2015 #168

You really need to get out more. branford Sep 2015 #169

Zman, Dunn, Reeves, etc., "lawfully owned firearms." You need to quit defending Hoyt Sep 2015 #170

Feel free to list any number of lawful gun owners who committed crimes branford Sep 2015 #171

Are you going to vote for a Republican because of your love if gunz? Hoyt Sep 2015 #172

Do you remember in 2014 sarisataka Sep 2015 #182

Sounds like you should criticize your gun buddies. Hoyt Sep 2015 #183

I will criticize Bloomberg sarisataka Sep 2015 #184

I don't need to vote Republican TeddyR Sep 2015 #233

Here's a new one. Hoyt Sep 2015 #179

What does that have to do with the original story? TeddyR Sep 2015 #234

... GGJohn Sep 2015 #235

What If.. mac2766 Sep 2015 #88

There are many millions of people lawfully carrying firearms for self defense, branford Sep 2015 #94

An easy question to answer. mac2766 Sep 2015 #129

As I indicated, all situations must be evaluated on their own merits. branford Sep 2015 #159

While I agree... mac2766 Sep 2015 #160

Of course that's not "okay." branford Sep 2015 #161

And in your hypothetical situation, GGJohn Sep 2015 #164

So that makes it OK for gun toting cowboys to blast away to protect their own rear? Hoyt Sep 2015 #173

If someone points a firearm at me, you're damned right I'm going to defend myself, GGJohn Sep 2015 #176

Shooting a criminal who is pointing their gun at you TeddyR Sep 2015 #237

There was no children in the bank Travis_0004 Sep 2015 #104

This is good example of self-defense, only one of hundreds of thousands each year. Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #110

I heard it was millions. onehandle Sep 2015 #113

Actually, there are estimates in the millions. I'm using the CDC's conservative estimate... Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #115

You are so happy that the right wing is suppressing knowledge. onehandle Sep 2015 #134

Funny, you sound like a comic hypnotist on the Ed sullivan Show. Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #180

Not the CDC, not a Study, and not the "Conservative" estimate maxsolomon Sep 2015 #195

A little specious since this "project" is supported by CDC and Nat'l Research Council, Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #203

When I see statistics or arguments that don't conform to my beliefs maxsolomon Sep 2015 #206

See my Post #200 concerning the alleged "flaws" in the CDC study. nt branford Sep 2015 #215

Not self defense - the robber was fleeing. Maedhros Sep 2015 #126

From what witnesses said, robber was pointing gun at the customer. LisaL Sep 2015 #131

I thought the shots occurred outside the bank. My bad. [n/t] Maedhros Sep 2015 #148

No, GGJohn Sep 2015 #149

Fleeing while pointing a gun at (from your stand point) the wrong person... Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #181

Something's odd about this story rockfordfile Sep 2015 #124

Cryptic... sarisataka Sep 2015 #130

Bank robbers sometimes rob customers. Yo_Mama Sep 2015 #136

There's something odd alright, GGJohn Sep 2015 #177

It's nice when people do what's right. ileus Sep 2015 #157

I'm told that's the most painful place to be shot n/t Kennah Sep 2015 #190

What? In a bank? Dr. Strange Sep 2015 #256

In the Warren n/t Kennah Sep 2015 #257

Why are controllers so mad? Kang Colby Sep 2015 #191

Disputable. maxsolomon Sep 2015 #193

That's crap. Kang Colby Sep 2015 #198

Please show me a "CDC" Estimate maxsolomon Sep 2015 #201

Instead of relying on your purported source for everything, branford Sep 2015 #216

I gave it a "Grad School" read. maxsolomon Sep 2015 #221

Here you go. Kang Colby Sep 2015 #222

that is NOT data gathered BY the CDC maxsolomon Sep 2015 #239

By the "gun violence archive" Kang Colby Sep 2015 #265

so which numbers do you buy? maxsolomon Oct 2015 #266

Re-read post 265. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #268

I don't understand how everyone is christx30 Sep 2015 #194

I'm not angry about this incident - I'm happy it worked out. maxsolomon Sep 2015 #196

It's about as valid as painting all gun owners as christx30 Sep 2015 #199

good plan. it supports the status quo maxsolomon Oct 2015 #267

There is anger because it doesn't fit gun-control narrative... Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #260

I just knew that if I waited long enough I would read a story like this. guillaumeb Sep 2015 #204

Two-thirds are suicides, and how many of the remainder are actually the branford Sep 2015 #209

So suicides do not count as gun deaths? guillaumeb Sep 2015 #210

Suicides certainly count as deaths, branford Sep 2015 #217

Perhaps you missed my point. guillaumeb Sep 2015 #219

The problem is you're using obvious straw man arguments. branford Sep 2015 #246

You ignore my points, or try to answer them when avoidance is impossible. guillaumeb Sep 2015 #264

There will now probably be a civil case against the customer. roamer65 Sep 2015 #223

So instead of using your firearm to protect yourself TeddyR Sep 2015 #236

Some judges will make inmates put up a bond christx30 Sep 2015 #240

Maybe not. GGJohn Sep 2015 #238

In Texas if you successfully defend yourself using a firearm, knife, car, or whatever means oneshooter Sep 2015 #244

You forgot about the inevitable counterclaims of assault and branford Sep 2015 #254