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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
68. Most Scholars reject that derivative.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 03:26 PM
Feb 2016

First you must understand that Ancient Egyptian, Aramaic, Arabic and Hebrew are all closely related languages, closer to each other then Italian, Spanish and French are to each other. Thus a lot of sentence structure and words are very similar in each language, with many difference more like dialects then actual different words.

Aramaic was used in parts of the New Testament for Aramaic was the language in popular usage in Palestine before the Arab Conquest, but after the Arab Conquest Arabic became the language not only of Arabia, but the Near East and Egypt (Thus was more a change in writing then any real change in language for the languages are all that close).

Given that background the Jewish word "Amen" is best translated as "So be it". It effect when you say "Amen" you are saying "The end" to the pray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen

Ammon, as used by ancient Egyptians meant "The Hidden one" and was the name of the Chief God of Ancient Egypt:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01430d.htm

Thus the words are similar, but appear to be derived from different Semitic words, thus giving some people the idea that Amen is derived from Ammon. Scholars who have looked at both words just can NOT make such a connection for both appear to be words that even in ancient times meant different things.

One source of this confusion is transliteration, the translation of one language to another when the two languages use different alphabets. For example when a Slavic name ending with the meaning of "of" (as in From, of New York City, meaning someone from the City of New York) is translated into English from Russian, it goes from the Cyclic Alphabet to the Latin Alphabet and comes out with a "sky" at the end of the name.

On the other hand the same name in Polish, Polish uses the Latin Alphabet, are translated unchanged and thus end in the "ski". Is there any real difference it that ending of a name? No both mean "of" (like the German "von" means "of" but the Slavs put it at the end of the name instead of before the name) but when translated into English the Russian end in y the Polish ends in i. The reason for this is Polish uses the Latin Alphabet and thus no need to translate each letter of a name, while the Russians use the Cyclic alphabet and thus when translated into English you not only have to translate the word, but also each letter for the Russians use a different alphabet.

http://www.polishroots.org/Research/SurnameSearch/Surnamesendings/tabid/118/Default.aspx

In the case of Semitic names, Hebrew uses a phonetic alphabet, the Ancient Egyptians used hieroglyphics. This leads to same words used on both languages being translated into English differently and at other times as the same word.

Then you have the problems of words pronounced the same but derived from different sources, for example in English, Wood and Would, there, they and their, weather and whether, Well and While. The words are pronounced the same but have completely different meanings (and if you ever read US Civil War letters home, you realized how recent most words have assumed their present spelling, Sir Samuel Johnson, the author of the first English Dictionary made the comment "That it was a sign of a lack of Education to be only able to spell a word one way" and that was the rule while into the days of Free Public Education (but since the Civil War how to spell words have become more rigid).

You also have the problem of one word being used for two purposes in other languages. The Classic example is "Of". In English "of" can mean by or from. Thus Karl Marx's famous comment about "Dictatorship of the Proletariat", did he mean rule BY the Proletariat or rule OVER the Proletariat? you can make both argument (and it appears that is what Marx wanted, for he wrote in English, in many ways Marx wanted BOTH, not only over but also by the proletariat). "Of" can mean by, from or over in English. Same word, three different meaning,

Thus to say Amen came from the Egyptian god Ammon is assuming that the words are the same, when there is good evidence that the words are not (more like "Wood" and "would" not "of&quot . Both words in ancient times were used in different context, Amen as an ending (So be it), Ammon as a proper name (The Hidden One) which indicate even in ancient times they meant different things (more"Wood" and "would" as oppose to "of&quot . That is what most scholars view these two words today. You have some you say they are the same word, but the support for that position is poor and as such NOT the opinion of most scholars.

Recommendations

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The standoff sounds like it will end one way or the other real, real soon sweetloukillbot Feb 2016 #1
I have plum run out of popcorn!!! winstars Feb 2016 #2
I'm terrified, I need to go to bed and I can't stop listening.... n/t sweetloukillbot Feb 2016 #3
Go to bed and listen tomorrow, that's not live. :) greyl Feb 2016 #4
Weird - I had been listening live and paused it. When I went back in all the shit was going down nt sweetloukillbot Feb 2016 #6
Don't read the comments jmowreader Feb 2016 #5
I wish I had read your warning earthshine Feb 2016 #7
Ya get hangry when you run out of snacks. Cassiopeia Feb 2016 #8
Four Bundys Mendocino Feb 2016 #9
Would this be a "bundle of Bundys"? LastLiberal in PalmSprings Feb 2016 #10
Binders full of Bundys? Mendocino Feb 2016 #12
King Kong Bundy may want to change his name to King Kong "something else." Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #14
If you're still hangin' at the refuge at 4 in the morning...You might be Snackless. Ford_Prefect Feb 2016 #11
I was just talking about Cliven Bundy tonight jobendorfer Feb 2016 #13
Everybody knows some of the charges against him... Wounded Bear Feb 2016 #20
thanks! didn't know that jobendorfer Feb 2016 #24
It's even deeper than that... Wounded Bear Feb 2016 #27
--but I can handle only so much scare at one time. I gotta worry about the Muslims. Hoppy Feb 2016 #48
You know where his son Ammon's name comes from, right? cui bono Feb 2016 #15
totally heartworthy barbtries Feb 2016 #39
Aw... thanks! Glad to make you laugh. We need that around here. cui bono Feb 2016 #67
ROFL! mdbl Feb 2016 #40
Ammon is an Ancient Israeli name and used in the book of Mormon happyslug Feb 2016 #56
And Egyptions Marty McGraw Feb 2016 #65
Most Scholars reject that derivative. happyslug Feb 2016 #68
My first thought was Amon Goeth dana_b Feb 2016 #66
.... trusty elf Feb 2016 #16
FFS, someone bring in the tranq gun me b zola Feb 2016 #17
that was my suggestion from the beginning mdbl Feb 2016 #41
What was he wanted for again? Rochester Feb 2016 #18
Couple of million in unpaid grazing rights on fed land.... Wounded Bear Feb 2016 #21
Oh yeah. Rochester Feb 2016 #22
CLIVEN BUNDY arrive in portland oregon little while ago. his wrinkly old self is in jail now. trueblue2007 Feb 2016 #19
It's on Oregon Live now YEEHAW! passiveporcupine Feb 2016 #23
They will wear themselves out Geronimoe Feb 2016 #25
They should have just sent him to Walla Walla State Pen. Duckfan Feb 2016 #26
County jail is a temp holding cell... Wounded Bear Feb 2016 #29
The family that fails together jails together. eom saltpoint Feb 2016 #28
Catchy! Wounded Bear Feb 2016 #30
The Bundys are having a bad public relations year, saltpoint Feb 2016 #31
The Bundy Bunch family reunion. SNL could have months of skits based on these idiots. (nt) Elwood P Dowd Feb 2016 #32
I think so, too. It could even be saltpoint Feb 2016 #33
Take this theme song and modify it for the Bundy Buch TV series. Elwood P Dowd Feb 2016 #35
: ) eom saltpoint Feb 2016 #36
South Park will be brutal n/t Kennah Feb 2016 #59
Permanent link here: muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #34
"Clever to arrest him after a TSA check to ensure his bodyguards would be unarmed." riversedge Feb 2016 #37
Well it only took them 2 years jfern Feb 2016 #38
But are all those illegal cattle still grazing on our land for jwirr Feb 2016 #58
Yes!!!! Owl Feb 2016 #42
The jailer won't be Andy of Mayberry and his cellmate won't be Otis. kairos12 Feb 2016 #43
Lots of DUers promised that these guys would never go to jail IronLionZion Feb 2016 #44
These Bundy assholes' support derives largely from their cowboy hats. Paladin Feb 2016 #45
Time to take the Bundy ranch for back grazing fees, too. Vinca Feb 2016 #46
Yep, someone should start a petition demanding that (n/t) William Seger Feb 2016 #60
Good. Hotler Feb 2016 #47
Welcome to Oregon Clive! Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #49
The Bungles are now Bunk Buddies... Earth_First Feb 2016 #50
Nevada Declares War on Oregon Cryptoad Feb 2016 #51
good n/t handmade34 Feb 2016 #52
Very wise to wait to arrest him off property & once he passed through airport security. Sunlei Feb 2016 #53
Now we've got our Bundies in a bunch. Mendocino Feb 2016 #54
Cliven shouldn't be allowed out until he pays his grazing fees. VMA131Marine Feb 2016 #55
Here is a list of everything the wingnuts have won during this standoff calguy Feb 2016 #57
Mug shot ffr Feb 2016 #61
Knew this would happen hollowdweller Feb 2016 #62
OregonLive.com reporting ffr Feb 2016 #63
So Fry has decided to make himself a martyr passiveporcupine Feb 2016 #64
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