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In reply to the discussion: Clinton IT aide to plead the Fifth in email case [View all]csziggy
(34,189 posts)43. No, the Fifth can be used if there is apprehension
About prosecution even if the witness has not committed a crime.
The Supreme Court has held that "a witness may have a reasonable fear of prosecution and yet be innocent of any wrongdoing. The privilege serves to protect the innocent who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Self-incrimination
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Self-incrimination
The case referenced in this Wikipedia article is this one:
Ohio v. Reiner
532 U.S. 17 (2001)
OCTOBER TERM, 2000
Syllabus
OHIO v. REINER
ON PETITION FOR WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME COURT OF OHIO
No. 00-1028. Decided March 19, 2001
Respondent was tried for involuntary manslaughter in the death of his infant son Alex, who died from "shaken baby syndrome." His defense theory was that Alex was injured while in the care of the family's babysitter, Susan Batt. Batt informed the Ohio trial court before testifying that she intended to assert her Fifth Amendment privilege, and the court granted her transactional immunity. She then testified to the jury that she had refused to testify without a grant of immunity on the advice of counsel, although she had done nothing wrong. The jury convicted respondent, and he appealed. The appeals court reversed, and the State Supreme Court affirmed the reversal on the ground that Batt had no valid Fifth Amendment privilege because she asserted innocence and that the trial court's grant of immunity was therefore unlawful. The court found that the wrongful grant of immunity prejudiced respondent, because it effectively told the jury that Batt did not cause Alex's injuries.
Held: Batt had a valid Fifth Amendment privilege against selfincrimination. This Court has jurisdiction over the Ohio Supreme Court's judgment, which rests, as a threshold matter, on a determination of federal law. See Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals Inc. v. Thompson, 478 U. S. 804, 816. The Fifth Amendment privilege's protection extends only to witnesses who have a reasonable cause to apprehend danger from a direct answer. Hoffman v. United States, 341 U. S. 479, 486. That inquiry is for the court; the witness' assertion does not by itself establish the risk of incrimination. This Court has never held, however, that the privilege is unavailable to those who claim innocence. To the contrary, the Court has emphasized that one of the Fifth Amendment's basic functions is to protect innocent persons who might otherwise be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances. Grunewald v. United States, 353 U. S. 391, 421. Batt had "reasonable cause" to apprehend danger from her answers if questioned at respondent's trial. Thus, it was reasonable for her to fear that answers to possible questions might tend to incriminate her.
Certiorari granted; 89 Ohio St. 3d 342, 731 N. E. 2d 662, reversed and remanded.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/532/17/
532 U.S. 17 (2001)
OCTOBER TERM, 2000
Syllabus
OHIO v. REINER
ON PETITION FOR WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME COURT OF OHIO
No. 00-1028. Decided March 19, 2001
Respondent was tried for involuntary manslaughter in the death of his infant son Alex, who died from "shaken baby syndrome." His defense theory was that Alex was injured while in the care of the family's babysitter, Susan Batt. Batt informed the Ohio trial court before testifying that she intended to assert her Fifth Amendment privilege, and the court granted her transactional immunity. She then testified to the jury that she had refused to testify without a grant of immunity on the advice of counsel, although she had done nothing wrong. The jury convicted respondent, and he appealed. The appeals court reversed, and the State Supreme Court affirmed the reversal on the ground that Batt had no valid Fifth Amendment privilege because she asserted innocence and that the trial court's grant of immunity was therefore unlawful. The court found that the wrongful grant of immunity prejudiced respondent, because it effectively told the jury that Batt did not cause Alex's injuries.
Held: Batt had a valid Fifth Amendment privilege against selfincrimination. This Court has jurisdiction over the Ohio Supreme Court's judgment, which rests, as a threshold matter, on a determination of federal law. See Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals Inc. v. Thompson, 478 U. S. 804, 816. The Fifth Amendment privilege's protection extends only to witnesses who have a reasonable cause to apprehend danger from a direct answer. Hoffman v. United States, 341 U. S. 479, 486. That inquiry is for the court; the witness' assertion does not by itself establish the risk of incrimination. This Court has never held, however, that the privilege is unavailable to those who claim innocence. To the contrary, the Court has emphasized that one of the Fifth Amendment's basic functions is to protect innocent persons who might otherwise be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances. Grunewald v. United States, 353 U. S. 391, 421. Batt had "reasonable cause" to apprehend danger from her answers if questioned at respondent's trial. Thus, it was reasonable for her to fear that answers to possible questions might tend to incriminate her.
Certiorari granted; 89 Ohio St. 3d 342, 731 N. E. 2d 662, reversed and remanded.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/532/17/
Think of the people who were persecuted by Joe McCarthy who attempted to protect themselves by pleading the Fifth. People's lives were destroyed when they had never broken the law.
In today's Congress and in the country today irrational attempts at prosecution even if a person is completely free of wrong doing is a very real possibility.
The assumption of guilt when a a refusal to answer and use of the Fifth Amendment is inherently a denial of a right under our Constitution and a denial of a human right.
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That's more in line with my thinking. Or he's worried about his admissions
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#54
tell it to his lawyers, who generally don't want any client to testify two or three times
magical thyme
Jun 2016
#49
No one knows what ground they'd try to cover -- we saw that in the Mills deposition
pnwmom
Jun 2016
#80
The judges order is specific and he's been ordered by the judge to be deposed
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#81
Unless the threat is substantive and real, meaning his immunity isn't within
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#83
There is nothing to know till the judge rules. Till then, he did exactly the right thing
pnwmom
Jun 2016
#84
If he'd done the right thing from the start he wouldn't be needing an attorney
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#85
the FBI wasn't smart enough to ask him if he was paid, how much and for what?
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#99
Then the lawyer would have to establish a reasonable cause for the fear of
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#98
soooo you're saying he's claiming the 5th because he can't be charged with a crime?
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#117
Having just read more about JudicialWatch, maybe he doesn't want to help with them
emulatorloo
Jun 2016
#13
It's a right against self incrimination. If there is not risk of criminal charges
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#55
But he must answer questions that establish whether his plea is reasonable. If it
Press Virginia
Jun 2016
#97
There are potentially two cases. One is civil and active, in which he is pleading the Fifth.
JDPriestly
Jun 2016
#45
Yeah, but they can sue his pants off if he testifies and incriminates himself.
ebayfool
Jun 2016
#61
Okay. But if he did testify and it contradicted what he has told the FBI, all bets are off on ...
ebayfool
Jun 2016
#68
Staying silent “can be used against you,” said Peter Toren, a former federal prosecutor and partner
w4rma
Jun 2016
#107
It's a legal perspective and this scenario of the prosecutor will play out in court with the
w4rma
Jun 2016
#109
Sorry, but I just don't give a shit what a right wing rag has to say. YMMV.
Major Nikon
Jun 2016
#110
"The Hill" is a "right-wing rag", now? You Clintonites are limiting your media outlets to hardly
w4rma
Jun 2016
#111
But when the Fifth Amendment is invoked, it is because testimony could incriminate
JDPriestly
Jun 2016
#72
This is just my experience. I can't say what would happen in a case you might be
JDPriestly
Jun 2016
#74
He is smart to follow his attorney's advice. And Judicial Watch is the modern day
pnwmom
Jun 2016
#23
Exactly. Why the hell would he cooperate in any way with a right wing witch hunt?
Midnight Writer
Jun 2016
#77
Pagliano is worried about a potential breach at the court reporting company? This guy?
ebayfool
Jun 2016
#60
"conservative" legal watchdog group is an understatement and they are a total rightwing attack
beachbum bob
Jun 2016
#90