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kurtcagle

(2,654 posts)

60. Impeachment is a non-starter

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 05:35 PM

Mar 2019

Impeachment is a first step towards removal, but without the Senate in Democratic hands, it is basically censure - a black mark but not a politically fatal one (cf. Bill Clinton) and as such really has no teeth.

The real judges will be the electorate in 2020. The election is in 18 months. Even if all of the investigations that the House is starting now ended before then (and I think that's a tall order) what will doom Trump is his inability to deliver anything even as the drumbeat of his crimes become louder. Impeachment will not change that and has the potential of increasing the sympathy vote from the GOP foot soldiers.

I want to see McConnel resigning in disgrace as his involvement in this sordid mess becomes clear. I want to see the FBI hauling Trump and his family away in handcuffs on inauguration day, I want to see a sweep of the Senate in 2020, and a Democrat in the White House not because we impeached Trump but because Mueller and Pelosi showed the world his true colors.

There are signs that the economy is slowing, as Trump's missteps accelerate what had already been baked into the mix. By next year, the economy will be in bad shape, and taxes this year have a lot of Republicans and independents very upset. Trump's on his way out one way or another, but I don't see impeachment doing anything but be symbolic at this stage.

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Nancy Pelosi on Impeaching Trump: 'He's Just Not Worth It' [View all] brooklynite Mar 2019 OP

Obviously things can change, but it follows what I've been saying since January 20, 2017. bearsfootball516 Mar 2019 #1

He certainly deserves impeachment, BUT... DrToast Mar 2019 #5

He will not be prosecuted when he leaves office. former9thward Mar 2019 #47

Bush didn't have any dealings with SDNY leftofcool Mar 2019 #57

He was accused of murder, starting a false war and torture on this site. former9thward Mar 2019 #96

The State of New York isn't so lenient. SergeStorms Mar 2019 #99

Why haven't they before? former9thward Mar 2019 #102

They've never had... SergeStorms Mar 2019 #109

Oh BS former9thward Mar 2019 #134

Take a chill pill. SergeStorms Mar 2019 #201

Prosecutors don't take their cues from online message boards DrToast Mar 2019 #122

No one knows what they are doing. former9thward Mar 2019 #135

Oh hey look at this. DrToast Mar 2019 #198

Bushco and others should have been prosecuted. He's war criminal rockfordfile Mar 2019 #162

And Pelosi took xxqqqzme Mar 2019 #139

That pissed me off... yuiyoshida Mar 2019 #159

I wouldn't take an absolute position that Trump and his Crime family avebury Mar 2019 #154

Who will guarantee that the machines aren't rigged? maryallen Mar 2019 #114

+1. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #120

You'd never find a jury without at least one or two RWNJs to hang the jury. He'll never be convicted Hoyt Mar 2019 #147

Hahaha. Well done - "He's not worth it" TheCowsCameHome Mar 2019 #2

Do you really find that funny? Sucha NastyWoman Mar 2019 #13

Yeah... I don't get it. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #17

She let Bush off the hook for invading a country that didn't attack us. "Off the table" BS, Nancy Evolve Dammit Mar 2019 #27

I hear ya! Impeachment should NOT be off the table. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #28

Oh and torture was OK too. All the lies about aluminum tubes, mushroom clouds; zero accountability Evolve Dammit Mar 2019 #39

You hear WHAT, bashing of Pelosi? Eliot Rosewater Mar 2019 #67

Not bashing anyone... just can't understand talking impeachment off the table. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #84

By acknowledging the fact that it would be little more than political theater? Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #163

Mueller is about as trustworthy as Comey...an impeachment trial will expose tRump-Russia collusion InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #165

Okay then, if you say so. Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #168

+1000. ehrnst Mar 2019 #215

Because it's impossible without the Senate, would look like partisan theatre if the Dem leadership ehrnst Mar 2019 #214

The Shroom is a whole different story... can't compare to Bill. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #217

And the other non-starters I listed? ehrnst Mar 2019 #218

I was so hoping she would leave on a high note. Baitball Blogger Mar 2019 #56

Her decision not to seek impeachment is VERY disappointing. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #85

Yes, and it's brilliant. Don't ignore what comes after "unless". greyl Mar 2019 #19

Totally agree. pazzyanne Mar 2019 #93

Absolutely. SergeStorms Mar 2019 #103

Exactly. Trump is trying to play himself as persecuted. Chemisse Mar 2019 #124

Yeah, she's playing him More_Cowbell Mar 2019 #152

I'm thinking along these lines: yodermon Mar 2019 #31

What does that mean? nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #121

Successful impeachment will require Republican Senators to vote with Dems to convict emulatorloo Mar 2019 #42

THIS is the issue - without 67 votes in the Senate, impeachment by the House is pointless AdamGG Mar 2019 #149

PLease Read The Entire Statement Me. Mar 2019 #49

Some wont read that far. Personally I think he should be impeached NO MATTER what, but I get Eliot Rosewater Mar 2019 #68

And...It's A Pointless Exercise Me. Mar 2019 #71

Impeachment doesn't mean removal. He can be impeached in the House. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #125

Exactly. Rizen Mar 2019 #158

That's... really not what she said at all, though. Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #166

It's never pointless to do one's duty. If the Senate fails to, that's on them. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #175

If the evidence shows impeachable offenses, I agree. Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #179

I agree. The evidence isn't there yet. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #180

Impeaching him with no hope of conviction does nothing constructive. Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #182

It will not help him and will not hurt the Democratic Party. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #184

I guess it comes down to whether or not you trust Pelosi to do the right thing. Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #188

She didn't say "I'm going to wait and see..." Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #191

Agreed 100%. BlueWI Mar 2019 #189

Right...If It Can't Get Past The Con Senate It Will Be Pointless Me. Mar 2019 #171

It's our duty to impeach, if the evidence shows impeachable offenses. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #176

I'm Afraid I Disagree Me. Mar 2019 #181

I didn't say we had evidence NOW. If we don't impeach, then there's no point in the investigations. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #183

I Quite Agree About Investigations First Me. Mar 2019 #185

A former President is not going to be criminally indicted. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #186

I Believe You & I Will Continue To Disagree On His Criminality Me. Mar 2019 #187

SDNY is not prosecuting Trump for anything. Trump is who we are concerned with. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #190

Clearly You & I Are Not Having A Meeting Of The Minds Me. Mar 2019 #193

Yes - she didn't say it was "off the table." (nt) ehrnst Mar 2019 #216

the 'divisiveness' that scares dem pols is directly proportional to dem and prog orgs ignorance of certainot Mar 2019 #50

Not funny at all. And not going to help Democrats in 2020, either... regnaD kciN Mar 2019 #65

Ditto! LovingA2andMI Mar 2019 #91

I agree but you can't impeach him until the yuiyoshida Mar 2019 #169

If impeachment is impossible without the Senate, then how does impeachment ehrnst Mar 2019 #98

I agree with you. mgardener Mar 2019 #119

exactly..when was the last time a woman told him 'hes not worth it'.... samnsara Mar 2019 #43

so true Tumbulu Mar 2019 #54

What Nancy said True Blue American Mar 2019 #58

Every one of you swarming against Pelosi: go convince all the Republicans to impeach Trump. NBachers Mar 2019 #100

+1 happybird Mar 2019 #123

This. N/T Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #170

Last I checked, we had a House Democratic majority. BlueWI Mar 2019 #192

It's a good strategy that McConnell used effectively even w/o evidence ffr Mar 2019 #3

At this moment in time Pelosi is 100% correct, we do not have any mueller beachbum bob Mar 2019 #4

love nancy....shes always many steps ahead of everyone else.. samnsara Mar 2019 #46

I don't understand.... if he is not impeached then he gets to run again... TalenaGor Mar 2019 #6

impeaching only emboldens him and his supporters..can you imagine him loose as a samnsara Mar 2019 #51

yes I'm down with that lol but TalenaGor Mar 2019 #61

Agreed and even if he should escape jail for any federal crimes hopefully he wont escape it for cstanleytech Mar 2019 #95

He can run again if he is impeached. He would have to be convicted by the Senate totodeinhere Mar 2019 #70

nothing stops trump from running again,impeachment...does not at all nor does conviction, Pelosi beachbum bob Mar 2019 #137

Mobsters the world over lull their victims into complacency to make them feel safe... Vinnie From Indy Mar 2019 #7

Oh my!! MontanaMama Mar 2019 #8

Indeed! emulatorloo Mar 2019 #45

LOL wryter2000 Mar 2019 #97

Reverse psychology. C_U_L8R Mar 2019 #9

Indeed it does... targetpractice Mar 2019 #16

Oh, dear. I would've preferred a "this is not a discussion to have at this time" response. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #10

If I were Russia metalbot Mar 2019 #18

They wouldn't do that. The Democrats have the opposite agenda that Putin does. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #81

It's very much in their interests metalbot Mar 2019 #129

Absolutely not. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #131

I guess we'll have to disagree here metalbot Mar 2019 #136

I understand what she is saying, but Trump and his party of unquestioning followers rurallib Mar 2019 #11

right now, she won't because the votes aren't there and it would be perceived as... Javaman Mar 2019 #12

Some people in this thread think she's kidding BeyondGeography Mar 2019 #14

Totally agree....however, if there ever was someone that should have been impeached it was "W". walkingman Mar 2019 #20

I think you are incorrect Vinnie From Indy Mar 2019 #22

So just say you are letting the investigations run their course BeyondGeography Mar 2019 #25

Is democracy worth it? Fiendish Thingy Mar 2019 #15

Exactly my thoughts... Basement Beat Mar 2019 #23

x 1000 Evolve Dammit Mar 2019 #33

Relax. Her statement left the door open to impeachment. pnwmom Mar 2019 #78

But the problem is... Millions of Dems hear her statement and then start conceding that Impeachment lancelyons Mar 2019 #89

I think the greater risk would be if the House were to impeach and the Senate pnwmom Mar 2019 #141

Bingo. Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #172

There is a HUGE difference between now and then lancelyons Mar 2019 #173

"Republicans should be MADE to PAY for this" - is exactly what they would think of impeachment ehrnst Mar 2019 #219

You're thinking about the wrong President Fiendish Thingy Mar 2019 #174

People here either don't know that a House vote for impeachment would be purely symbolic Demit Mar 2019 #111

my thoughts exactly - n/t Locrian Mar 2019 #80

+100 Duppers Mar 2019 #101

The same ol' guard strikes again. Basement Beat Mar 2019 #21

Are you familiar with the term "HORSE COCK" Nancy flotsam Mar 2019 #24

The country is already divided, as bad as I've ever seen it! icymist Mar 2019 #26

But the country is worth it. nt yaesu Mar 2019 #29

Zactly. Duppers Mar 2019 #104

So then, BlueWI Mar 2019 #30

Disagree. Even low-lifes like Trump should NOT get away with impeachable offenses. It continues a FailureToCommunicate Mar 2019 #32

I disagree with her on this hueymahl Mar 2019 #34

Totally disagree with Speaker Pelosi on this watoos Mar 2019 #35

As the investigations become public.... Mustellus Mar 2019 #36

Conviction in the Senate takes 67 bearsfootball516 Mar 2019 #87

i agree.. trumps not worth a plug nickle let alone be the reason why America divides... samnsara Mar 2019 #37

I think she is just trolling Trump DBoon Mar 2019 #38

me too!!! this is Nancy wink winking at us... samnsara Mar 2019 #40

He is not worth it True Blue American Mar 2019 #106

only if it's part of the chess match.. Chakaconcarne Mar 2019 #41

Another Republican Problem playaseeker Mar 2019 #44

Excellent point! And welcome to DU! Rhiannon12866 Mar 2019 #194

She is right, until the Mueller or the Congressional Investigations is finished, and demonstrates still_one Mar 2019 #48

Moving beyond this moment Congress needs Raven123 Mar 2019 #52

I interpret her quote as "when the Rs have had enough, we'll be here." eggplant Mar 2019 #53

We are not a united party. Baitball Blogger Mar 2019 #55

I'll settle for the complete and utter destruction of the GOP. . . DinahMoeHum Mar 2019 #59

That won't happen anytime soon. As long as they have that solid base of supporters totodeinhere Mar 2019 #77

Impeachment is a non-starter kurtcagle Mar 2019 #60

Madam Speaker so right again Proud Veteran Mar 2019 #62

She knows the votes for impeachment just aren't there in the senate. Thekaspervote Mar 2019 #63

I am so disappointed with Nancy Pelosi SkatmanRoth Mar 2019 #64

What do you think is going to happen once the House impeaches and the Senate acquits him? Jake Stern Mar 2019 #150

She's right mcar Mar 2019 #66

He will be, but not by the Dems infullview Mar 2019 #69

Its WEAK...but the dems cant do anything to make the Republicans see any of the crimes. lancelyons Mar 2019 #72

Of course the next Democrat president that Farts wrong will be impeached. This is crazy. lancelyons Mar 2019 #76

With all due respect, Nancy... world wide wally Mar 2019 #73

We wouldn't even come close in the Senate at this point. And newspaper reports pnwmom Mar 2019 #79

You wait for twitter tonight....... Mustellus Mar 2019 #74

Instead, let's torture him with investigations and legislative maneuvering Fritz Walter Mar 2019 #75

this could also backfire. lancelyons Mar 2019 #82

she's telling trump he's irrelevent, a nothing agingdem Mar 2019 #83

The Speaker doesn't exist to harass the President. She has a job with duties. Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #130

until she has Republican support agingdem Mar 2019 #142

No surprise whyzayker Mar 2019 #86

Makes sense to me. Impeachment would indeed divide the country and would wind but being.... George II Mar 2019 #88

Bull.... LovingA2andMI Mar 2019 #90

Can't impeach with this generation of Republican Senators. GETPLANING Mar 2019 #92

Correct. The DEMS are powerless at the moment in regards to impeachment. lancelyons Mar 2019 #107

Look how well impeaching Clinton did for the Republicans wryter2000 Mar 2019 #94

Actually, the impeachment and the facts brought to light BlueWI Mar 2019 #195

Democrats LOST the next 3 elections. nt RandiFan1290 Mar 2019 #205

Not POTUS.... and yes, the Party that has the WH usually takes a hit the ehrnst Mar 2019 #223

yes, potus RandiFan1290 Mar 2019 #230

No, next POTUS election was 1994, then Gore won in 2000 (SCOTUS handed it to W) ehrnst Mar 2019 #231

"...something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan" LiberalLovinLug Mar 2019 #105

So, then you see the futility of threatening impeachment right now. ehrnst Mar 2019 #232

As I said, I am willing to wait awhile longer. LiberalLovinLug Mar 2019 #234

"Hysterical" Just the thing that gains a woman in power respect... ehrnst Mar 2019 #235

If you doubt that impeachment is divisivie, pazzyanne Mar 2019 #108

I agree that impeachment would fail; and that would increase the freak's chances in 2020... C Moon Mar 2019 #110

Trumps plan to muddy the waters and keep his guys on his side, WORKED lancelyons Mar 2019 #112

Unfortunately they have something we don't. . . . a sympathetic media Jake Stern Mar 2019 #196

They also own the Senate re-election map. lancelyons Mar 2019 #210

She knows how she's seen by opponents and could be playing reverse psychology. The GOP ancianita Mar 2019 #113

Great leadership, she thinks 10 steps ahead AlexSFCA Mar 2019 #115

When our leaders do this.. it makes our voters want to not come out and VOTE. lancelyons Mar 2019 #116

Impeachment's in the House, Removal's in the Senate... RobertDevereaux Mar 2019 #117

As if the country wasn't already divided. Rizen Mar 2019 #118

Why give trump this kind of breathing room? Paladin Mar 2019 #126

Nancy is leaving an important thing UNSAID here FakeNoose Mar 2019 #127

Not quite correct. TexasTowelie Mar 2019 #209

"bipartisan" gave her an OUT Ferrets are Cool Mar 2019 #128

Is a tumorous cancer worth cutting out? Maxheader Mar 2019 #132

Are you freaking kidding me Pelosi!! Lotus54 Mar 2019 #133

Yes, probably true as long... Dan Mar 2019 #138

Link to The Guardian update thread nitpicker Mar 2019 #140

Now I see how TRump can shoot somebody in the middle of 5th avenue and get away with it. bahrbearian Mar 2019 #143

He's not worth it, no, I suppose - but dammit: THIS COUNTRY IS WORTH IT! Rabrrrrrr Mar 2019 #144

Code for: the house will not lead - but if the Mueller report is sufficiently damning - harumph Mar 2019 #145

this is a thing of truth and beauty Deb Mar 2019 #146

No, he isn't, Madam Speaker. BUT WE ARE!!! AllyCat Mar 2019 #148

Mediocre and not worth it DeminPennswoods Mar 2019 #151

SMH, she has just given him a blank cheque for bad behavior. Mr. Sparkle Mar 2019 #153

That's exactly how he sees it dalton99a Mar 2019 #199

Maybe this is a fake-out and she WILL impeach him when the time is right. no_hypocrisy Mar 2019 #155

What if reasonable people believe that he is too... dchill Mar 2019 #156

At this point the efforts are better served with congressional investigations and Mueller. Afromania Mar 2019 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author Huffleprecious Mar 2019 #160

She's exactly right Docreed2003 Mar 2019 #161

Well we already know that trump's base thinks about trump treason with Russia. rockfordfile Mar 2019 #164

oh yes! This is Trump's Republican party now... yuiyoshida Mar 2019 #177

OH WHO CARES - the hardcore base is only a lousy 30% - theres nothing that can be Kashkakat v.2.0 Mar 2019 #213

YES!!! SkyDaddy7 Mar 2019 #220

+1 Docreed2003 Mar 2019 #221

I'm fearing that RUMP's message NOW will be bluestarone Mar 2019 #167

She understands the GOP Senate caucus does not have the moral character to convict the pig. Thomas Hurt Mar 2019 #178

impeachment should be on the front burner stevesinpa Mar 2019 #197

Time to Get Tough,Nancy! McKim Mar 2019 #200

He's not worth it, but our country is! Laffy Kat Mar 2019 #202

This is her way of saying she doesn't have the votes, duforsure Mar 2019 #203

Link to the Guardian nitpicker Mar 2019 #204

IMPEACH PELOSI!!! nt SylviaD Mar 2019 #206

How do you propose to do that? ehrnst Mar 2019 #233

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2019 #207

Bull Shit sellitman Mar 2019 #208

The media is already talking about the Dems sucking up all the oxygen.. lancelyons Mar 2019 #211

EARTH TO PELOSI : country is already divided. Not following constitution to address high crimes Kashkakat v.2.0 Mar 2019 #212

In what way is she not following the Constitution? ehrnst Mar 2019 #224

She's not "not following the constitution" - but she is seemingly ruling out a constituional option Kashkakat v.2.0 Mar 2019 #225

Yes you said, "not following the constitution" ehrnst Mar 2019 #226

Why even say it is the big question BeyondGeography Mar 2019 #227

I trust Nancy more than the folks here on DU to know what ehrnst Mar 2019 #236

Then you are gullible. Bush and Trump...impeachment "off the table". WTF? nt SylviaD Mar 2019 #239

Ok... She didn't say impeachment for Trump is off the table. ehrnst Mar 2019 #241

I gave three specific reasons why her statement was lame BeyondGeography Mar 2019 #240

No, not blind faith. Just a clear understanding of who has expertise concerning ehrnst Mar 2019 #242

The man is a criminal that continues to misuse his office. If not impeachment, what? Return to Sanity Mar 2019 #222

There are other ways to chip away at DT other than impeachment - that's not the only avenue. ehrnst Mar 2019 #228

While I disagree wholeheartedly, I understand because... Blue_Tires Mar 2019 #229

Key bit here: "unless there's something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan" apnu Mar 2019 #237

I'm very torn. Turin_C3PO Mar 2019 #238